16" MBP 2021 - I thought Blooming was no longer an issue?

[adamjackson]

New 16" no editing done and yes I know the text it out of focus.

Reports Suggest Mini-LED 'Blooming' Effect on New MacBook Pro Displays Not an Issue

Reports suggest that despite the new 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pros sharing the same mini-LED display technology as the 12.9-inch iPad Pro, the new...

www.macrumors.com

This article seems to suggest the MacBook Pro doesn't have this issue or it's better:

According to users' reports and reviews, that doesn't seem to be the case. Brian Tong noted in his review of the new M1 Max 16-inch MacBook Pro that while blooming is still present on the new displays, it's only visible with "deep black backgrounds, and bright white text or a white logo is contrasting it." Additionally, Tong stressed that the blooming effect is exaggerated when recorded with a camera and that it's much less obvious when viewed with the naked eye.

New owners of the 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro are also sharing their thoughts on the MacRumors Forums. Compared to the 12.9-inch ‌iPad Pro‌, the new MacBook Pro makes better use of mini-LED and dimming zones. As one forum user wrote:

Overall I think the IPP 12.9 display is awesome but the XDR on the mbp is even better because when I play HDR content only the window portion is super bright - on the iPad everything just looks bright. You're not going to get gimped here on the display of the new mbp. well maybe the ghosting issue is annoying for some overall it is a fantastic display.
Another user shares the same thoughts, saying that despite the small instances of blooming, the new MacBook Pro displays are "fantastic."

Comparing the 12.9" iPad Pro and the new 16" MacBook Pro, the MacBook Pro is a bit better. Much less blooming, and the colors pop a bit more. That being said they are both amazing screens. When I first used the iPad I was really impressed by the screen. When I first used the MacBook Pro I was completely blown away. As a test I played a 4K HDR demo and the peak brightness, colors, and the realism is one of the best I have seen on any screen (not counting extremely high end TVs).

I had the same issue on my iPad Pro 13":

It's annoying. I've already changed my settings on ByWord, Reeder and other apps to not use "true black" which is the issue. Once I switch Reeder and ByWord to 'grey' theme, the blooming goes away.

My opinion is that MiniLED just isn't ready for primetime. This isn't an Apple issue. Every miniLED display out there has people complaining about blooming.

 

[Big Jobs]

you're blooming joking yah? yes it's very annoying i agree>

 

[cababah]

That truly looks horrible OP

 

[Daniel L]

Have been using 16" MBP since release day. My phone catches the blooming but it has not bothered me in any way with daily usage, even in complete darkness.

 

[drxcm]

haven't noticed any on mine in day to day usage

 

[Vermifuge]

Have been using 16" MBP since release day. My phone catches the blooming but it has not bothered me in any way with daily usage, even in complete darkness.

I would agree. Hasn't been an issue for myself. But I get that others may be more sensitive to this.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

The exposure of your camera makes it worse than it appears to the eye so it's pointless to take photos of it.

If you want much less blooming (zero blooming is impossible if you're using a black background) on a laptop at these prices you'll have to wait around 5 years. There would need to be many more dimming zones and maybe also a textured nano glass option.

 

[fa8362]

You need a better camera.

 

[bobcomer]

If you want much less blooming (zero blooming is impossible if you're using a black background) on a laptop at these prices you'll have to wait around 5 years. There would need to be many more dimming zones and maybe also a textured nano glass option.

Or you can get an OLED laptop.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Honestly, a lot of people just don’t understand how display technology works which is okay but the more people get schooled the better.

MiniLED still uses an LCD panel and there’s only so much it can do to block out unwanted light so the more LEDs added the harder it has to work. Non-miniLED screens have this as well but because there are less LEDs it’s easier to hide or it affects such a large area it will be harder to notice specific areas. TV’s using this tech such as Samsung QLEDs have blooming issues as well and those are much better quality than Apple’s displays. Apple didn’t do themselves any favors adding more light in the form of miniLED while still using poor quality panels.

Again, all display tech (e.g. oled, miniled) has its downsides regardless which is why people claim to want microLED supposedly mixing the benefits of OLED/miniLED without the negative aspects but it will be expensive so I’m sure folks will complain.

While Apple may have some of the better displays on the market from a color accuracy standpoint, which isn’t saying much, Apple still has terrible response times on their panels which often negates ProMotion tech. From a tech standpoint Apples best displays are on the iPhone 13 Pro currently with OLED (fast response, color accurate) and ProMotion (variable refresh rate). For all intensive purposes their iPhone display is better than their $10K XDR display or whatever it’s called.

 

[adamjackson]

You need a better camera.

I'll take a photo with my $5,000 camera setup tonight on a tripod just for you. This was taken with an iPhone 13 Pro. The camera doesn't make a difference. What you see in the photo is exactly what my eye sees. My wife walked by and said "is your computer broken already?"

Honestly, a lot of people just don’t understand how display technology works which is okay but the more people get schooled the better.

MiniLED still uses an LCD panel and there’s only so much it can do to block out unwanted light so the more LEDs added the harder it has to work. Non-miniLED screens have this as well but because there are less LEDs it’s easier to hide or it affects such a large area it will be harder to notice specific areas. TV’s using this tech such as Samsung QLEDs have blooming issues as well and those are much better quality than Apple’s displays. Apple didn’t do themselves any favors adding more light in the form of miniLED while still using poor quality panels.

Again, all display tech (e.g. oled, miniled) has its downsides regardless which is why people claim to want microLED supposedly mixing the benefits of OLED/miniLED without the negative aspects but it will be expensive so I’m sure folks will complain.

While Apple may have some of the better displays on the market from a color accuracy standpoint, which isn’t saying much, Apple still has terrible response times on their panels which often negates ProMotion tech. From a tech standpoint Apples best displays are on the iPhone 13 Pro currently with OLED (fast response, color accurate) and ProMotion (variable refresh rate). For all intensive purposes their iPhone display is better than their $10K XDR display or whatever it’s called.

That's why I said that this isn't an Apple problem. The industry is moving to MiniLED for the premium displays (like Dell's $3700 option) but I don't think we need to sell people on these things just yet. MiniLED should stay in R&D labs and not have ever been adopted so quickly.

The exposure of your camera makes it worse than it appears to the eye so it's pointless to take photos of it.

If you want much less blooming (zero blooming is impossible if you're using a black background) on a laptop at these prices you'll have to wait around 5 years. There would need to be many more dimming zones and maybe also a textured nano glass option.

I specifically taped on my iPhone 13 the blooms themselves so it wouldn't be over-exposed. If you look behind the camera, you'll see it's not over exposed. The blooms really are this bright. I promise, no trickery was used here. The only thing the iPhone failed to do was focus on the text even though that' what I clicked on.

 

[adamjackson]

I think it's funny that when I highlight an issue that millions of people using Apple's and other products out there complain about, I'm told

1. You're doing it wrong
2. Your camera sucks
3. You over exposed the image
4. You need to educate yourself on display technology

When the truth is, I've had 20 Macs and 10 different displays over the years and none of them have ever had this issue. I have seen on lower quality displays when a zone is huge and lights up some of the screen with some white light (like a cheap TV when you turn the volume up on a dark picture and the volume indicator on-screen brightens that entire side of the screen) but on my Macs and Displays over the years, blooming was not an issue. I only just noticed it when I got my iPad and thought the iPad was broken then googled it and learned what blooming was. I think it's worse on the MacBook Pro.

The fix is not running apps in true-black mode. But for the record, the 27" iMac and 13" MacBook Pro this M1 MaxBook is replacing did not have this issue and I ran Reeder in exactly the same true black UI.

My gripe isn't with Apple or with MiniLEDs it's with the post on MacRumors where people said it's no longer a problem. I think it depends on your use case. Like I said, I'm going to adjust my usage where I don't run apps in true black. That solves the issue for me but, given it wasn't an issue on my previous MacOS machines, it means MiniLED is not ready for primetime or shouldn't have been rolled out because this is a regression for my use case (blooming on all black apps).

I'm not going to return the computer, I'm just going to adjust how I use it.

 

[adamjackson]

Last post before I walk away because I'm afraid there will be name calling if I dig my heals in on this. Handheld photo with the camera next to me (5D Mark IV w/ 24-70 lens, manual at 3.5 aperture and 2000 ISO at different exposures)

This is in day-time obviously I underexposed the 2nd one to be more natural to how it looks on my eyes but you can see the blooms around the text.

The iPhone 13 Pro OLED which I use at night in the dark in true black reading mode:

You see some blooming top left hand corner but not as extreme. All displays photographed are at max brightness which is how I use my electronics.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

I think it's funny that when I highlight an issue that millions of people using Apple's and other products out there complain about, I'm told

1. You're doing it wrong
2. Your camera sucks
3. You over exposed the image
4. You need to educate yourself on display technology

When the truth is, I've had 20 Macs and 10 different displays over the years and none of them have ever had this issue. I have seen on lower quality displays when a zone is huge and lights up some of the screen with some white light (like a cheap TV when you turn the volume up on a dark picture and the volume indicator on-screen brightens that entire side of the screen) but on my Macs and Displays over the years, blooming was not an issue. I only just noticed it when I got my iPad and thought the iPad was broken then googled it and learned what blooming was. I think it's worse on the MacBook Pro.

The fix is not running apps in true-black mode. But for the record, the 27" iMac and 13" MacBook Pro this M1 MaxBook is replacing did not have this issue and I ran Reeder in exactly the same true black UI.

My gripe isn't with Apple or with MiniLEDs it's with the post on MacRumors where people said it's no longer a problem. I think it depends on your use case. Like I said, I'm going to adjust my usage where I don't run apps in true black. That solves the issue for me but, given it wasn't an issue on my previous MacOS machines, it means MiniLED is not ready for primetime or shouldn't have been rolled out because this is a regression for my use case (blooming on all black apps).

I'm not going to return the computer, I'm just going to adjust how I use it.

I never said to educate yourself but simply stated facts and in this very post you stated you had no idea what blooming was until you got your iPad so sound like you still need to educate yourself. If your gripe is about the posts then you may or may not have realized that most of the articles were from folks who had used a miniLED iPad Pro and were saying it was better than those displays but think about all the people that don't even know what blooming is such as yourself so they considered it to not exist. Those who claim there was zero blooming either don't understand how blooming occurs or don't see it in their use case. So if YOU truly understood how miniLED worked then are you just posting to trash talk people that claim it's no longer a problem? Additionally, blooming isn't a "problem" it's how the tech works and all miniLEDs do this so let me settle this for everyone reading...ALL miniLED displays BLOOM.

This thread is oddly emotional so I'm out.

 

[GumaRodak]

You have camera setup of 5000$ and you use electronics/displays at max brightness?
please explain how do you edit pictures on monitor max brightness and if anybody except you is using the edited pictures
Srsly, i dont know why would anybody edit pictures at max brightness. Thats beyond calibration logic

 

[metapunk2077fail]

Last post before I walk away because I'm afraid there will be name calling if I dig my heals in on this. Handheld photo with the camera next to me (5D Mark IV w/ 24-70 lens, manual at 3.5 aperture and 2000 ISO at different exposures)

This is in day-time obviously I underexposed the 2nd one to be more natural to how it looks on my eyes but you can see the blooms around the text.

The iPhone 13 Pro OLED which I use at night in the dark in true black reading mode:

You see some blooming top left hand corner but not as extreme. All displays photographed are at max brightness which is how I use my electronics.

That's right. You have to close the aperture and under expose to photograph a display. Your eyes automatically do this even with a black background set. I have a black background too and do not see any distracting level of blooming to my naked eye. If I did I would have refunded immediately.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

Or you can get an OLED laptop.

No thanks. Because some elements on the menu bar are almost always showing the same thing there is risk of burn in depending on display maker. The display on the MBP is a great choice for now and I can wait a few more years for more dimming zones to feature at this price point.

 

[adamjackson]

.ALL miniLED displays BLOOM.

I'm sorry to quote you because I know you didn't want to discuss it further but if all MiniLED displays have this issue then why is the industry moving toward them? This technology shouldn't be used if it's flawed like this. People here are right, there is no perfect display tech but I think my 2018 iPad Pro, iMac and MacBook Pros have superior displays to the 2021 displays. MiniLED is a regression to my eyes if every text on a black background has a big halo around it. Imagine going to a theatre to see a movie and it's nothing but lens flare in every scene?

You have camera setup of 5000$ and you use electronics/displays at max brightness?
please explain how do you edit pictures on monitor max brightness and if anybody except you is using the edited pictures
Srsly, i dont know why would anybody edit pictures at max brightness. Thats beyond calibration logic

A lot of people steal my photos but no one to my knowledge is using them commercially. I'm a hobbyist photographer and I've been using every computer I own at max brightness since my first Mac back in 1999. https://flickr.com/photos/adamjackson/ I think my pictures are pretty good even at max brightness

the MBP is a great choice for now and I can wait a few more years for more dimming zones to feature at this price point.

Same. I'm not going to sell my stuff and go back to the 2018 models but I think we all should at least acknowledge here that these displays are inferior and need special treatment to be usable. I've turned off dark mode on MacOS and on the select apps I use that offer true black which has eliminated this issue. As soon as we get a display that doesn't have this blooming effect, I'll go back to all black.

I do want to repeat, this isn't an apple issue. It's a MiniLED issue. OLED has issues too. We need a new display tech that can do HDR, can do high resolution, can do true - black and doesn't have any trade-offs. Looks like the tech is way off from that being a reality at a consumer price point.

 

[metapunk2077fail]

I do want to repeat, this isn't an apple issue. It's a MiniLED issue. OLED has issues too. We need a new display tech that can do HDR, can do high resolution, can do true - black and doesn't have any trade-offs. Looks like the tech is way off from that being a reality at a consumer price point.

HDR isn't suitable for computer interfaces so let's put that aside. It's a standard for video and some photo formats.

True black is not possible of course, especially if you have a layer of glass that diffuses light (hence the bloom we see). Not even Vanta is true black

But look at this. When you set your wallpaper to black on this display the webcam disappears. That's tremendous.

 

[bobcomer]

No thanks. Because some elements on the menu bar are almost always showing the same thing there is risk of burn in depending on display maker. The display on the MBP is a great choice for now and I can wait a few more years for more dimming zones to feature at this price point.

Like someone else said, all displays seem to have their drawbacks, but me personally, I'll take OLED over any LED based panel. I'm not a video pro whatsoever, and I'm not real concerned with burn-in as I haven't seen that since CRT's and some earlier LCD's. I just really, really like the contrast and the real blacks. The next gen looks like it's going to be a bit brighter too. And I do see blooming, even on normal LED's and it kind of bothers me. (that's why I like OLED so me)

 

[metapunk2077fail]

Like someone else said, all displays seem to have their drawbacks, but me personally, I'll take OLED over any LED based panel. I'm not a video pro whatsoever, and I'm not real concerned with burn-in as I haven't seen that since CRT's and some earlier LCD's. I just really, really like the contrast and the real blacks. The next gen looks like it's going to be a bit brighter too. And I do see blooming, even on normal LED's and it kind of bothers me. (that's why I like OLED so me)

If I had a laptop for gaming I wouldn't mind OLED but as a creative pro I have still elements on screen all the time, like window panels.

Just need to reiterate to new readers coming in, bloom is primarily caused by light diffusing through the glass and then when that diffused light hits your eye bloom is the effect you see. This would be visible when looking at icons and text on a black background but otherwise not.

Here's light from LEDs hitting glass:

More dimming zones and a textured/matte display would reduce that, but that's not an option at the moment otherwise we would have a chonkier lid and another $1000 to pay.

 

[bobcomer]

If I had a laptop for gaming I wouldn't mind OLED but as a creative pro I have still elements on screen all the time, like window panels.

I don't do gaming on PC's, but my main home laptop has an OLED display. I don't usually have lots of static stuff for any length of time though except for the task bar, and I have a short blank screen timeout, so no burn in yet, even after 3 years.

Usage can definitely make a difference, I agree.

 

[Chevysales]

I think it's funny that when I highlight an issue that millions of people using Apple's and other products out there complain about, I'm told

1. You're doing it wrong
2. Your camera sucks
3. You over exposed the image
4. You need to educate yourself on display technology

When the truth is, I've had 20 Macs and 10 different displays over the years and none of them have ever had this issue. I have seen on lower quality displays when a zone is huge and lights up some of the screen with some white light (like a cheap TV when you turn the volume up on a dark picture and the volume indicator on-screen brightens that entire side of the screen) but on my Macs and Displays over the years, blooming was not an issue. I only just noticed it when I got my iPad and thought the iPad was broken then googled it and learned what blooming was. I think it's worse on the MacBook Pro.

The fix is not running apps in true-black mode. But for the record, the 27" iMac and 13" MacBook Pro this M1 MaxBook is replacing did not have this issue and I ran Reeder in exactly the same true black UI.

My gripe isn't with Apple or with MiniLEDs it's with the post on MacRumors where people said it's no longer a problem. I think it depends on your use case. Like I said, I'm going to adjust my usage where I don't run apps in true black. That solves the issue for me but, given it wasn't an issue on my previous MacOS machines, it means MiniLED is not ready for primetime or shouldn't have been rolled out because this is a regression for my use case (blooming on all black apps).

I'm not going to return the computer, I'm just going to adjust how I use it.

there aren't "millions" of people complaining about it.
I heard no reviewers saying it was gone. MKHBD even said its still there. albeit he felt is was a bit less which was subjective.
that said I can't recall ever reading white text on a black background.... for my eyes just too much contrast. YMMV

 

[GumaRodak]

Do you edit pictures with goggles? Do they have automatic dimming function?

 

[venom600]

No thanks. Because some elements on the menu bar are almost always showing the same thing there is risk of burn in depending on display maker. The display on the MBP is a great choice for now and I can wait a few more years for more dimming zones to feature at this price point.

OLED Displays also have blooming, to some degree and they are effectively per pixel dimming zones. As long as there is glass in front of the pixels that refracts the light coming from them, you're going to have blooming. As to why everyone is excited about MiniLED... you should have seen the blooming when the first full array local dimming TVs came out with zones in the tens, not hundreds or thousands.