It's clear to me that Apple won't replace your laptop with a non-defective one.
Once the extended repair program ends, Apple will slam the door shut and leave you with a paperweight.
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17 inch Macbook Pro (Late 2011) Replacement
- Thread starter adeel7861
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It's clear to me that Apple won't replace your laptop with a non-defective one.
Once the extended repair program ends, Apple will slam the door shut and leave you with a paperweight.
At the end of the day, Apple sold machines with up to a 3 year warranty which they have honoured, and actually offered additional coverage on, whether or not you got Applecare or not.
I think they did what they had to do.
It's a fact of life that if you're using machines for any real money making enterprise, you're best off assuming (and building into your budget for cost of running the business) replacement after somewhere between 3-5 years anyway. GPU failure isn't the only failure mode, storage system failure goes up drastically in and beyond year 4 as well, for example.
Is the 2011 Macbook Pro dGPU design flawed? Yes. But you paid for a machine with somewhere between 1 and 3 year warranty in an industry where machines beyond 5 years are essentially paperweights anyway.
If you're running a 2011 or earlier machine and expecting to have a reliable computer, it's time to move on.
2c.
(and yes, i do have a defective, currently broken machine in my sig. i'm planning to try and get a repair/replacement some time close to the end of the replacement period. if i get a new retina, sweet. if not... well it was a good 4 years which is all I expected to run the machine for. i budgeted for, and have already bought its replacement).
I think they did what they had to do.
It's a fact of life that if you're using machines for any real money making enterprise, you're best off assuming (and building into your budget for cost of running the business) replacement after somewhere between 3-5 years anyway. GPU failure isn't the only failure mode, storage system failure goes up drastically in and beyond year 4 as well, for example.
Is the 2011 Macbook Pro dGPU design flawed? Yes. But you paid for a machine with somewhere between 1 and 3 year warranty in an industry where machines beyond 5 years are essentially paperweights anyway.
If you're running a 2011 or earlier machine and expecting to have a reliable computer, it's time to move on.
2c.
(and yes, i do have a defective, currently broken machine in my sig. i'm planning to try and get a repair/replacement some time close to the end of the replacement period. if i get a new retina, sweet. if not... well it was a good 4 years which is all I expected to run the machine for. i budgeted for, and have already bought its replacement).
Here in Europe my 17" machine was knocking on the door of $4000 when new.........so forgive me if I don't think that the premium for the supposed Apple 'design and quality' had a finite life span.
One of the limited number of benefits of living in Europe is that we are protected by European wide consumer laws which state that on significant purchase like this there should be an expected level of quality and durability..........a test that albeit subjective , provides up to 6 years of protection from date of orginal purchase ESPECIALLY when it can be proven that there was any form of design fault inherent within the product......and even MORE SO when the manufacturer concedes the issue (recall/repair programme). Clearly these machines aren't living up to the expected lifespan and this is perhaps why we are seeing a greater incidence of machine replacement here in Europe than in other territories?
Can't forgive you for that, cost does not equal longevity in the electronics business, all electronics have a finite lifespan and the warranty is an indication of what that lifespan will likely be before the possibility of issues is more than the manufacturer wants to support. In apples computers case 3 years, and by the end of this year they will have supported them for 5 years.
Also the 6 years limited warranty is only applicable in England the rest of the U.K. get 5 years and the rest of Europe 2 years. So yes if you are in England you may get another year of cover on your 2011.
Would you expect a $5000 TV to last any longer than a $500 one? If you do then your understanding of technology needs some work. Often the more expensive cutting edge, with the latest technology the more likely it is to fail despite being more expensive.
That's the nature of electronics they don't have the option of running it for 5 years to check its longevity before it is put into new machines. Manufacturers could just use old tech that is known to be stable of course and not release anything without fully testing it. However considering the rampant impatience that Apple has had the temerity to take a few months from when Intel released the chips to getting the rMBP out, I doubt that's a good business plan.
You may not like it but you can't have everything, and using the latest tech comes with the risk that the components may not be great over time, if you want to avoid that you have one choice, only use old proven tech. Everyone using a new computer is a beta tester for that hardware.
Top tip:
More money in computers does not buy you extended life-span.
It buys you higher spec for faster performance during the expected life span, possibly better support and nicer peripherals, nicer design (egos, appearance, etc.).
If you are comparing against an inappropriately low spec machine then sure, you might get acceptable speed for a little longer, but hardware life expectancy does not magically get extended based on paying more money.
I've got $6k machines in the field that are obsolete after the same period of time, and also out of warranty and/or broken.
Even my servers, which were 10-15k per blade, are deprecated over 5 years with the expectation that they are EOL and due for replacement at that time. Because hardware has a finite life expectancy, limited warranty and limited vendor support time frame.
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agree 100% with above post also. cutting edge = you have no idea how long it will last. neither do apple, however they bet on things lasting 3 years based on the experience they have with the industry, and their cost modelling that no doubt shows offering up to 3 year extended warranty is not going to cost them too much. Sometimes they get burned (as per 2011 Macbook Pros), but most of the time they come out slightly in front and can thus afford to offer extended programs like this one.
Also, i'm not sure what the "Expected lifespan" of computers is in Europe but here in Australia for tax purposes we depreciate desktops and laptops over 3 years. I.e., the tax department considers 3 years to be the reasonable usable life of a computer. We are permitted to buy new machines and claim them as a tax deduction every 3 years.
If you're going to try and argue that your expected lifetime for a computer is 6 years, when the maximum available vendor warranty is 3 years and your government suggests a depreciation schedule of 3 years (check, European countries may be different, but i doubt it will be 2x), then good luck with that.
Do Macs often last longer than 3 years? Sure. My 2007 spec Mini still works. But its well outside of what is to be reasonably expected of it at this point.
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Apple did not offer support for these computers for five or six years. The repair program only launched a year ago after Apple was hit with a class action lawsuit. Should people expect Apple to do more than they are, I don’t think so but it doesn’t take the sting out of those that were affected early on.
From my perspective I would not expect the usable life of my 2013 rMBP to be over this year seeing as it’s nearly identical in performance to the latest rMBP that is being sold today at the Apple Store (which I also happen to own).
From my perspective I would not expect the usable life of my 2013 rMBP to be over this year seeing as it’s nearly identical in performance to the latest rMBP that is being sold today at the Apple Store (which I also happen to own).
No, but by the same token you should be taking into account that hardware failure post 2016 is out of warranty, and you should be budgeting based on that possibility.
I understand what you're saying and I do agree with it but if an engineering flaw rendered my 2013 unusable today it would 'sting' quite a bit seeing it's nearly identical to the current model being sold.
[doublepost=1462533306][/doublepost]I guess all I'm saying is I have empathy for all those that were affected. At the end of the day we are talking about technology here and some tech fails sooner than others. It's just the nature of how it works.
Hmm.....I don't necessarily agree with any of these comments about expected lifespan...and how "cutting edge" and "premium" pricing don't buy better quality....
If my laptop had been worked into the ground and had simply worn out due to it ageing then OK - thats acceptable.....BUT...if my computer failed, due to a single mode failure point, which is an ACKNOWLEDGED design weakness, then NO I am not OK with that....especially if they can't then reliably repair it.
In a similar vein - if I bought a Ford truck - and after thee years it was totally worn out, with multiple components starting to fail, I'd take it on the chin.....and buy a new one....
If I buy a Porsche - at over three times the price with "cutting edge" technology and "premium branding and performance" - and at the end of year three the engine blows up due to a fundamental design fault that everyone was aware of - I can tell you I wouldn't simply be saying "oh well -thats the price of buying cutting edge technology" .........
Now to take this analogy further - if I then took the car to Porsche and they put a new engine in it, I'd be very happy, until it blew up again......and again.....at which point I think I'd be saying to Porsche - "listen guys - I'm sick of you repairing this and it keep breaking , you need to sort something out for me"
So the key difference in all of this, for me, is that there is a known issue with these machines - and its been there since they were new....so its disingenuous to suggest we just need to accept that this is part of buying "cutting edge" and take it on the chin. If I'd know these Laptops were prone to spontaneous failure due to a poor design I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have bought one!....even if they had been the same price as the mass market equivalents.
If my laptop had been worked into the ground and had simply worn out due to it ageing then OK - thats acceptable.....BUT...if my computer failed, due to a single mode failure point, which is an ACKNOWLEDGED design weakness, then NO I am not OK with that....especially if they can't then reliably repair it.
In a similar vein - if I bought a Ford truck - and after thee years it was totally worn out, with multiple components starting to fail, I'd take it on the chin.....and buy a new one....
If I buy a Porsche - at over three times the price with "cutting edge" technology and "premium branding and performance" - and at the end of year three the engine blows up due to a fundamental design fault that everyone was aware of - I can tell you I wouldn't simply be saying "oh well -thats the price of buying cutting edge technology" .........
Now to take this analogy further - if I then took the car to Porsche and they put a new engine in it, I'd be very happy, until it blew up again......and again.....at which point I think I'd be saying to Porsche - "listen guys - I'm sick of you repairing this and it keep breaking , you need to sort something out for me"
So the key difference in all of this, for me, is that there is a known issue with these machines - and its been there since they were new....so its disingenuous to suggest we just need to accept that this is part of buying "cutting edge" and take it on the chin. If I'd know these Laptops were prone to spontaneous failure due to a poor design I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have bought one!....even if they had been the same price as the mass market equivalents.
In the United States, this is considered a "lemon" and the manufacturer has the responsibility to either replace it or refund the purchase price.
I see what you're saying, but TVs and computers don't usually break -- in fact, they'll almost always become obsolete before they have a physical failure.
Having said that, a more expensive ($5000) TV is likely to have a much longer expected usable life. If you bought a 4K TV three years ago, you'll probably have a it for a long time still since it likely won't be obsolete very soon. If you buy a 720p 60 Hz TV with no current inputs, you'll find yourself wanting to replace it much sooner as the 4K become less expensive. An i7 4790K will be useful longer than a newer Core M 1.1 M-5Y31.
You're right that more expensive doesn't mean more reliable (at least once you're above the "cheap" spectrum). We are talking about something here that has a known flaw that will cause it to fail over and over.
As for the 2011 computers being obsolete, I don't see it that way at all. If you bought a 2011 with a 2nd generation i7, 16 GB of RAM, and have a new SSD in it -- what's obsolete about it? Sure, you might not be doing 4K video editing with it... but for what 99% of what people do, it's indistinguishable from a brand new one. It's arguably better than a lot of new machines that have these ultra-low powered CPUs anyways.
I'd far sooner use a 2011 with i7 Quad-core/Hyperthreading, 16 GB of RAM, and a modern SSD over say a Mac Mini with 5400 RPM hard drive and dual-core i5 -- yet they still sell those. So again, 2011 hardware is not obsolete today for what most people do. Heck, Apple still sells the bloody 13" non-retina pro from 2012, and the current Mac Pro is ancient by your own terms.
Computers aren't changing anywhere near as quickly these days, and software demands are especially stagnant. If the average person does web browsing, office apps, email, etc -- 2011 hardware did it amazingly well in 2011 and still does it amazingly well in 2016. Heck, people use their iPads for that stuff even and those things aren't anywhere near as powerful.
I don't think it's unreasonable to be upset that there's a known and admitted design flaw that kills your device after a few years. There should have been a recall + fix, but now it's a mess. It's costing people hundreds, even thousands of dollars.
My MBP is now really unstable.
I find the "repair" that Apple does to be completely unacceptable.
I find the "repair" that Apple does to be completely unacceptable.
Yeah - mine went flaky each time - just before the board failed......plugging it into an external monitor seems to make things even worse.
By the same token would you expect to be sold a piece of equipment that later has been found to have a component that is 100% certain to fail, then when fixed with the same 100% certain to fail component will keep failing? Yeah, I didn't think so. Apple either needs to REPLACE the GPU with a unit that won't fail or swap everyone's computer to a unit that doesn't have 100% chance of failure. We aren't talking about fluke failures here - mine HAD FOUR FAILURES OF THE SAME COMPONENT!
I wouldn't expect it but I would accept it, all electronic components have 100% failure over time, nature of the beast.
Yes AMD cocked up with the dGPU, green regulations created a problem that no one solved very well and many problems were caused accross the industry.
Apple have dealt with these problems better than anyone else has, supported their tech longer than anyone else, is this good enough?? Maybe not.....
Would I accept that a machine 5-6 years old is at the end of its shelf life anyway and move on of course I would life's to short not to. I may consider buying from someone else and I would certainly do my research first,but apple still make the most reliable machines and get the best customer satisfaction scores for their computers so I'd get another Mac.
If this is not how you feel about the situation then by all means keep the anger and stress going, make your life more miserable and wallow in it, that's your prerogative.
No one should need to feel any stress or pain. Apple screwed up and they should make it good....either with continual repairs or new machines.......
Is it inconvenient? Yes, significantly. Stressful? No not really.....unless you have really low stress threshold.
Personally I don't think Apple have done enough. The biggest problem is that the "repair" is ******....they could have really engendered some goodwill here if they'd made the repairs 100% failure proof....instead of actually continually failing, at what seems like a 70% fall out rate. Whats that old adage?....."anyone can make a mistake....but only a fool makes it twice"
So, if you were in my position at the beginning of 2015 and your mid 2011 17" MBP had 4 failures of the GPU you would just say, "**** it, the machine is almost 4 years old I'll just buy a new one?" If you car had a perpetual problem that should be lemon law'd you would just sell it because it is supposed to break down? Your logic is flawed and unrealistic. Apple is the richest company in the world - they absolutely should make people whole when they sell a product that has a known component that will fail multiple times.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
Of cause components are going to fail over time, but in this case, this is the same single component that is failing over and over and over again.
If my screen fail, I would accept that accept that fact and buy a replacement screen. Obviously, I would have certain expectations and that would include not having the screen fail the same way every six months or less.
I think if ANY random component failed you would just get on with it and deal with it.........
....BUT...when the same component keeps failing, repeatedly, due to an unresolved design fault, then it should be sorted properly and not just these continual Band-Aid solutions that Apple are fobbing people off with.
As I have previously said, this is like giving ibufen to an ebola patient. Sure it mitigates the immediate symptom, but it doesn't solve the underlining issue.
This is like the Xbox 360 red ring of death issue. Microsoft just extended the warranty not making any attempt to actually resolve the hardware fault that caused the high failure rate at the time. And then years later they quietly introduced new 360 slim models with revised hardware that did not have the issue. But every original 360 motherboard eventually fails at some paint because of a design fault.
Yep pretty much it in a nutshell, that's the risk you take buying any computer I understand and accept that when I buy them.
Just making sure we're on the same page. Seems like an appropriate comparison. The latter being a disease that kills countless annually and the former being a MacBook with graphics card failures.