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I too can Google things and be condescending if I like! But I don't like.
I wouldn't get too broken up over it. The vast majority of the post is 20 year old fear mongering over how "insecure the cloud" is coupled with clear lack of understanding on what a database is or how encryption works.

At least the concerns about software bugs are valid :)
 
For those of you concerned about the removal of local vaults, didn't they require the cloud for syncing -- even if was iCloud or Dropbox?
 
I wouldn't get too broken up over it. The vast majority of the post is 20 year old fear mongering over how "insecure the cloud" is coupled with clear lack of understanding on what a database is or how encryption works.

At least the concerns about software bugs are valid :)
I'm not! ;) Each to their own. I'm keeping a close eye on Minimalist it looks nice. Playing with Ventura beta now...

Imagine a world with no bugs? The horror...
 
Local vaults no longer supported. So goodbye 1p.
I will not store my passwords on the net
I have bad news for you... your passwords are already stored on the net. Every password, for every online account, you have ever created is stored on the net. This is the same with your user name. Think about it for a minute, or two... The account you created for Macrumors has a password, and it is stored in some database... on the net.

I also struggled with the concept, and finally started to use a cloud based password manager application. I chose BitWarden for several reason, but I will not get into that since it is a separate discussion. Since moving to a password manager I have improved my organization of all my online accounts with, what I believe, is better overall control of my security ecosystem. One way that I did this was by using Firefox relay to create individual aliases for all my accounts. However, I digress because I do not want to get too far away from the original subject.

In closing, I think I understand your apprehension, however if you give it some critical thought you can understand why these applications can be helpful. I have taken the stance that it is not a matter of if, but a matter of when, my user names, passwords, and accounts will be hacked. Therefore, I decided to create a framework to minimize the damage created when it does occur. If you give it some thought you may find it insightful, but if not I understand why.


My best,

Mike

p.s. I am not critical of your decision, I am just entering into dialogue with a different perspective.
 
I also struggled with the concept, and finally started to use a cloud based password manager application.

Not only this, your passwords are not stored in plain text on 1Password's (or other password manager vendors') servers. A rogue employee could post anyone of those databases to a public website tomorrow, and you would still be safe. To be any use, an attacker would have to get your password, and secret key (in 1Password's case) to get any useful data whatsoever.

There are much easier targets for attackers. Sites that store your information in plain text, for example.
 
I too can Google things and be condescending if I like! But I don't like.
what's condescending about it ? You asked what I meant by "centralized database of passwords" and I explained it .You can't ask people questions then get upset because they answer you.

I wouldn't get too broken up over it. The vast majority of the post is 20 year old fear mongering over how "insecure the cloud" is coupled with clear lack of understanding on what a database is or how encryption works.

At least the concerns about software bugs are valid :)
well , if you consider well known 60 year old security experts and cryptographers like Bruce Schneier to be "20 year old fear mongering"...
( unless you were referring to me, but considering I grew up programming using punch cards on Vax computers, I'm not familiar with what 20y old kids do these days 😁 )

Agile would be getting much fewer complaints if they kept offering the local vaults / non-sub versions in addition to the sub / Agile hosted version. People could then choose what they feel confortable with. Especially when it comes to something as touchy as security software.
 
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I have bad news for you... your passwords are already stored on the net. Every password, for every online account, you have ever created is stored on the net. This is the same with your user name. Think about it for a minute, or two... The account you created for Macrumors has a password, and it is stored in some database... on the net.

I also struggled with the concept, and finally started to use a cloud based password manager application. I chose BitWarden for several reason, but I will not get into that since it is a separate discussion. Since moving to a password manager I have improved my organization of all my online accounts with, what I believe, is better overall control of my security ecosystem. One way that I did this was by using Firefox relay to create individual aliases for all my accounts. However, I digress because I do not want to get too far away from the original subject.

In closing, I think I understand your apprehension, however if you give it some critical thought you can understand why these applications can be helpful. I have taken the stance that it is not a matter of if, but a matter of when, my user names, passwords, and accounts will be hacked. Therefore, I decided to create a framework to minimize the damage created when it does occur. If you give it some thought you may find it insightful, but if not I understand why.


My best,

Mike

p.s. I am not critical of your decision, I am just entering into dialogue with a different perspective.
There is still a difference between the exposure of one single password and username from a forum and all my usernames and passwords--even if they are encrypted, salted, hashed, and peppered.
 
For the subscription adverse: I've been using clipperz.is ("Keep It To Yourself") for the last 15 years. Zero problems; simply interface; robust. Shareware.
 
Well a well functional software for a fee. argghhh! /s

Have been a loyal customer for Agile since early days, have tried the "others", but no-one does it better that 1p, 2fa, iOS, Windows, Extensions for browsers etc, and better UI. I'll gladly pay the fee every month for me and my fam.

Good work, Agile, keep it up!
 
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How you expect them operate with servers and the pricing then ? One time pricing is gone

They can charge based on the amount of data transfered between the servers and the user, which would be very little.

Their subscription is not just $5 per year per device, which is the realistic cost of sustaining the servers.
 
well , if you consider well known 60 year old security experts and cryptographers like Bruce Schneier to be "20 year old fear mongering"...
( unless you were referring to me, but considering I grew up programming using punch cards on Vax computers, I'm not familiar with what 20y old kids do these days 😁 )

Agile would be getting much fewer complaints if they kept offering the local vaults / non-sub versions in addition to the sub / Agile hosted version. People could then choose what they feel confortable with. Especially when it comes to something as touchy as security software.
People would complain about cars less if they still had horses attached.... Sorry but out of date thinking regardless of age. Might as well keep all your money under your mattress because it lives in a nebulous bank and you cant hold your money yourself.

That is not to say cloud is inherently secure. It isnt. It is just differently secure. Having a local vault that you control does not make it safer, it just makes it different. Your personal triple redundant onsite off site fully replicated and heavily encrypted vault may be the best place for you. To assume a local vault makes something more secure is just objectively wrong.
 
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There is still a difference between the exposure of one single password and username from a forum and all my usernames and passwords--even if they are encrypted, salted, hashed, and peppered.
Sure... until your laptop or mobile device gets stolen and hacked; then, is there really a difference? Which scenario is more likely: 1) 1Password servers get hacked, breached, or compromised; or 2) Your device(s) get stolen and hacked? Regardless, there is a human element.

So look, I am not trying to argue for or against cloud storage - or argue with anyone for that matter. Technology, especially relative to operating systems, mobile devices, and security, is changing at rate we have never seen before.

So, I ask the question what is your mindset? I choose one that accepts I will be hacked in my lifetime. Ever since taking this position I have stopped being overly concerned about security and focused on developing a system that I am intimately familiar with and can respond to. From that perspective, I choose to design a system that works for me and one that I am willing to manage effectively when I do get hacked as to minimize collateral damage. However, this discussion has merit with the macrumors community because I presume we are all, or mostly, technically "oriented."

In closing, for those who use technology as a luxury, or convenience, I would venture to guess they don't think extensively of such matters because others just care as to whether technology works, or not. So, I am not really sure what point I am even trying to make; but perhaps it is one where hysteria (to borrow off someone else's point and post) reigns supreme, or even fear of being hacked and you do what you feel is best to mitigate the risk.

Mike

p.s. I am always trying to learn and understand new perspectives, so I hope you understand my stance.
 
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That is not to say cloud is inherently secure. It isnt. It is just differently secure. Having a local vault that you control does not make it safer, it just makes it different.
Well, of course nothing is 100% secure in life. One day, 256 AES encryption will be broken in as easily as a paper agenda. But everything in security is about decreasing the odds that something bad happens, it's about making things harder for hackers, it's about increasing substantially the difficulty to do so, to the point that the hackers has to think about how much is it worth to spend additional material resources and time VERSUS the potential gain. That's really how security researchers ( regardless of age ! ) look at it.

When one says that one method is less secure than the other , it doesn't mean that one is 100% secure and the other is totally insecure. It might mean that one is , say , 40% more secure than the other . And security is basically about putting the odds/chance in your side, it's not a binary game.

Look at 2 step authorization, that's what it is about : spreading the potential point of failure over 2 nodes instead of one. You can even increase it to a more secure 5 step authorization, and you can still get kidnapped and tortured to give your passwords and activate your devices with your biometrics. But unless you're a very special "person of interest", that's unlikely to happen , and for a hacker that just wants to steal some of your money, not worth the trouble and risk.

If we consider that 1P software has a point of failure ( as shown by those out of date "fear-mongering-20y old" ), and if the amount of energy/time spent to hack one person's local vault is almost the same as the one spent to hack thousands ( or hundred of thousands of 1P users ?) because all their vaults are in one server instead of thousands of servers , then the effort is absolutely worth it for organized hackers. It doesn't mean it's guaranteed to happen , but it just increased the odds substantially.

So local vaults are objectively and inherently more secure, not just different. They are "different" in the sense that they are less convenient than Agile hosted vaults. The latter is also "different" in the sense that they are more convenient but less secure ( because of what's said above). You're trading increased security ( or should I say less probabilities of a hack ) for convenience.That's worth it for some people, and not for others. It should be up to the user to make that choice, and it would have been extremely easy for Agile to make 2 versions of 1P, one with local vaults only, and one hosted by them. It's not like they are some poor lonely developper making software from his grandma's kitchen table. They just got 64 Millions$ of funding.

It's very obviously a commercial/business choice, not a rational or technological one. If you "own" your vault, you're not constantly dependent on them. If your vault is basically a monthly rented space, you're completely dependent on them , forever.

Mind you , they're not the only ones. A majority of software turned-subscription isn't justified at all by any technological or "progress" reasons, only by making your data hostage unless you pay the monthly rent forever. Very few are really justified.
 
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Like many, I have been using 1P since version 3. I have ver7 standalone now. If that stops working, I am bailing too. I will not do subscriptions. I only subscribe to 1 thing currently and that is Netflix since 2005 and I am itching to drop that too.
 
Happily deleted the previous 1password app after installing this, only to realise that there is no watch app for the latest version (which I refer to couple of time a day for work accounts). Now I have 2 1password apps on my device. o_O
 
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