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2 Button Mouse?
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Apple is really dumb sometimes.
That's really all I can say about this.
They would sell a lot more of the current wireless mice if they had 2 buttons and a scroll wheel. It is that simple...
sigh - so what if apple doesn't release one. I can get a better one for less from MS.
scem0
That's really all I can say about this.
They would sell a lot more of the current wireless mice if they had 2 buttons and a scroll wheel. It is that simple...
sigh - so what if apple doesn't release one. I can get a better one for less from MS.
scem0
2+ buttons != pro
It seems to me that a 2+ button mouse with scroll wheel is more suited to the casual user, not the pro. You can lay back, forget the keyboard, drink your cola while you surf the net with your scroll wheel. But the Mac is a Computer, not a Console, or a TV Web Browser.
The simple one button mouse is intuitive, you use it as a hand in the screen, you point, you click or grab and drag around. If you want to do something else, you have your other hand in the keyboard (at least most "pro" users would) which can modify what the mouse click does, with the same modifier keys you use for keyboard shortcuts, that as has been said, is the fastest way to work.
It's simple. It works, and there's no reason why Apple should change it because they designed it like this for a reason.
You are free to get another mouse if you want, but Apple doesn't have to change their design.
(BTW, this was mentioned before, but here it goes again: wireless ONE button mouse, on the top ten at the apple store... )
It seems to me that a 2+ button mouse with scroll wheel is more suited to the casual user, not the pro. You can lay back, forget the keyboard, drink your cola while you surf the net with your scroll wheel. But the Mac is a Computer, not a Console, or a TV Web Browser.
The simple one button mouse is intuitive, you use it as a hand in the screen, you point, you click or grab and drag around. If you want to do something else, you have your other hand in the keyboard (at least most "pro" users would) which can modify what the mouse click does, with the same modifier keys you use for keyboard shortcuts, that as has been said, is the fastest way to work.
It's simple. It works, and there's no reason why Apple should change it because they designed it like this for a reason.
You are free to get another mouse if you want, but Apple doesn't have to change their design.
(BTW, this was mentioned before, but here it goes again: wireless ONE button mouse, on the top ten at the apple store... )
Re: 2+ buttons != pro
I've never figured out how you can sit back and just use a computer with just a mouse. I find it much easier to just use the keyboard and no mouse in comparison. Simply mousing from one side of the screen to another takes a lot more time then hitting a simple key command that would probably do the process you're wanting to do anyhow. Also if your surfing your going to have a need to type an address or fill out a form or something at some point so you might as well toss the mouse and learn the key commands.
I've never figured out how you can sit back and just use a computer with just a mouse. I find it much easier to just use the keyboard and no mouse in comparison. Simply mousing from one side of the screen to another takes a lot more time then hitting a simple key command that would probably do the process you're wanting to do anyhow. Also if your surfing your going to have a need to type an address or fill out a form or something at some point so you might as well toss the mouse and learn the key commands.
Re:Re:2+button != pro
Hmmm.... It was just an impression I got from some of the coments on the thread... A picture came to my head of a mouse as a gamepad
Hmmm.... It was just an impression I got from some of the coments on the thread... A picture came to my head of a mouse as a gamepad
I've read comments that Apple should provide choice in this manner. Why don't PC vendors offer me a one button mouse with my choice of PC? It has to be 2 buttons or more.
The function of a mouse is to point to some metaphor on the screen and initiate it's meaning with a click. It also has the function of click and hold to move items, draw, select multiple items. These 2 things are the primary purpose of a mouse because the keyboard cannot do it as well.
With my one button mouse I have a choice of how my hand can conduct these events. I also can quickly move this mouse to my other hand, and use it the same way.
A multi mutton mouse forces me to do these processes repeatedly with my index finger, while managing to keep my other fingers to stay still and not interfere.
A right button and a scroll wheel is a convenient extra for some processes which are already handled by other parts of the UI. There are also other options to control your computer quickly which a mouse can't beat ie keyboard shortcuts.
So I am skeptical of the argument that contextual menus are a high priority in UI design, without a large amount of data and a raft of studies to support it. For some people it's a good thing. Others may use it less. I only need to use them about >5% of the time. I use keyboard shortcuts to do things faster.
There are implications for Apple if they offer their own choice of a 2 button mouse which hasn't been discussed in this forum. They will have to add alternatives in their documentation to explain the difference between mice. This will create more complicated documentation, with more choices for a beginner to contend with than a PC. Apple would have to explain the differences in the devices, making it more complicated than a PC to understand the function of a mouse.
It would therefore make better sense then for Apple to make only a 2 button mouse; to drop the 1 button altogether so there would be consistency across the product range and restore simplicity. 1 button fans would have to turn to a 3rd party to get their specialist 1b mouse. These would only be advanced users, as beginners would just take what was bundled with the computer.
I think that the current model is best. Apple allows you to add your own custom input devices, from vendors as they invent them. You could have your QWERTY mouse if you so desired.
Viva la 1 button mouse.
The function of a mouse is to point to some metaphor on the screen and initiate it's meaning with a click. It also has the function of click and hold to move items, draw, select multiple items. These 2 things are the primary purpose of a mouse because the keyboard cannot do it as well.
With my one button mouse I have a choice of how my hand can conduct these events. I also can quickly move this mouse to my other hand, and use it the same way.
A multi mutton mouse forces me to do these processes repeatedly with my index finger, while managing to keep my other fingers to stay still and not interfere.
A right button and a scroll wheel is a convenient extra for some processes which are already handled by other parts of the UI. There are also other options to control your computer quickly which a mouse can't beat ie keyboard shortcuts.
So I am skeptical of the argument that contextual menus are a high priority in UI design, without a large amount of data and a raft of studies to support it. For some people it's a good thing. Others may use it less. I only need to use them about >5% of the time. I use keyboard shortcuts to do things faster.
There are implications for Apple if they offer their own choice of a 2 button mouse which hasn't been discussed in this forum. They will have to add alternatives in their documentation to explain the difference between mice. This will create more complicated documentation, with more choices for a beginner to contend with than a PC. Apple would have to explain the differences in the devices, making it more complicated than a PC to understand the function of a mouse.
It would therefore make better sense then for Apple to make only a 2 button mouse; to drop the 1 button altogether so there would be consistency across the product range and restore simplicity. 1 button fans would have to turn to a 3rd party to get their specialist 1b mouse. These would only be advanced users, as beginners would just take what was bundled with the computer.
I think that the current model is best. Apple allows you to add your own custom input devices, from vendors as they invent them. You could have your QWERTY mouse if you so desired.
Viva la 1 button mouse.
Yes, because the professional or even the avid user is going to have their own concept of what they need in a mouse or an input device. Not one mouse can satisfy all these people so it's better that Apple supply the simplest form and allow the other people choose what they want from the vast selection of 3rd party mice and input devices.
----------------------------------------------------
I read this whole thread and found the above to be the most compelling reason for Apple to stay with the one-button mouse. That being said, I still think that it asking a lot of potential switchers to memorize a bunch of arcane keyboard commands in order to navigate the GUI. All other things considered, that seems more Microsoftian than Apple. Honestly, what's easier to teach grandm: the difference between a left click and right click, or the difference between a click and command key, cloverleaf key, apple key etc. ad nauseum. This reminds me of a lecture by a woman who was talking about the use of jargon to keep out other women from the tech fields that are predominately male. IF I am on the phone with grandma and tell here to click the mouse button and hold down the command key at the same time, she gonna have questions about why, and which key is the command key. WIth the 2 button i say click the right button of the mouse (look down, Grandma... Grandma?? Grandma!! STOP THAT CHOKING GRANDMA, SPIT IT OUT... SPIT IT OUT!! i SAID HOLD THE APPLE KEY, NOT EAT THE APPLE KEY!! ooh God is there anyone ther who knows the heimlich?? GRANDMA! GRANDMA!! She's dead!! Oh my God I killed her! I hope your happy Apple, it all your fault and your damn keyboard commands!!
MacBandit inadvertantly hit iit on the head when he said that "you might as well toss the mouse and learn the keyboard." Yeah, that's a real good slogan to use in a switch ad. (I hope i didn't take it out of context... but it just screamed mac elitism). Once again, the mouse is supposed to make using the GUI easier, by your logic, it seems command line would be better. You never need a mouse then!!
Its funny because of those defending the mouse, some are saying that's its for the lowest common denominator, and others for the the power users. I guess I feel that if 95% of the computing world is using a 2 button mouse, what really is the lowest common denominator. Again, that makes a great switch ad. "Apple, we cater to the really stupid!" (Not that 95% of the computing world is smarter than Apple... in fact wasn't there an article stating that Mac users tended to be more educated and made more money?)
I have to agree that the UI contextual interfaces could become very messy if there were 2 button standard. But UI quality varies from company to company anyway. Some contextual menues on Window machines are really really really crappy, and some are pretty good. That never made me want to toss my mouse out.
I realize the logistical nightmare that could result with offering different mouse configurations for a laptop. But it doesn't make me want one (two-button mouse) any less. By the way, there was a thread last week about a hack that re-configured the laptop mouse to act as a scroll wheel, and some other cool things. It was on versiontracker. Its called the sidetrack 0.7. When I buy my first powerbook, I will definately be using this.
Gotta go. (I need to dispose of a inconviently dead relative.)
Off topic note: Wouldn't it be really ironic if in the future Microsoft's sole product was mice and keyboards sold to Apple. I really think that Microsoft mice and keyboards are the best in the buisness. The rest of their stuff they can toos.
----------------------------------------------------
I read this whole thread and found the above to be the most compelling reason for Apple to stay with the one-button mouse. That being said, I still think that it asking a lot of potential switchers to memorize a bunch of arcane keyboard commands in order to navigate the GUI. All other things considered, that seems more Microsoftian than Apple. Honestly, what's easier to teach grandm: the difference between a left click and right click, or the difference between a click and command key, cloverleaf key, apple key etc. ad nauseum. This reminds me of a lecture by a woman who was talking about the use of jargon to keep out other women from the tech fields that are predominately male. IF I am on the phone with grandma and tell here to click the mouse button and hold down the command key at the same time, she gonna have questions about why, and which key is the command key. WIth the 2 button i say click the right button of the mouse (look down, Grandma... Grandma?? Grandma!! STOP THAT CHOKING GRANDMA, SPIT IT OUT... SPIT IT OUT!! i SAID HOLD THE APPLE KEY, NOT EAT THE APPLE KEY!! ooh God is there anyone ther who knows the heimlich?? GRANDMA! GRANDMA!! She's dead!! Oh my God I killed her! I hope your happy Apple, it all your fault and your damn keyboard commands!!
MacBandit inadvertantly hit iit on the head when he said that "you might as well toss the mouse and learn the keyboard." Yeah, that's a real good slogan to use in a switch ad. (I hope i didn't take it out of context... but it just screamed mac elitism). Once again, the mouse is supposed to make using the GUI easier, by your logic, it seems command line would be better. You never need a mouse then!!
Its funny because of those defending the mouse, some are saying that's its for the lowest common denominator, and others for the the power users. I guess I feel that if 95% of the computing world is using a 2 button mouse, what really is the lowest common denominator. Again, that makes a great switch ad. "Apple, we cater to the really stupid!" (Not that 95% of the computing world is smarter than Apple... in fact wasn't there an article stating that Mac users tended to be more educated and made more money?)
I have to agree that the UI contextual interfaces could become very messy if there were 2 button standard. But UI quality varies from company to company anyway. Some contextual menues on Window machines are really really really crappy, and some are pretty good. That never made me want to toss my mouse out.
I realize the logistical nightmare that could result with offering different mouse configurations for a laptop. But it doesn't make me want one (two-button mouse) any less. By the way, there was a thread last week about a hack that re-configured the laptop mouse to act as a scroll wheel, and some other cool things. It was on versiontracker. Its called the sidetrack 0.7. When I buy my first powerbook, I will definately be using this.
Gotta go. (I need to dispose of a inconviently dead relative.)
Off topic note: Wouldn't it be really ironic if in the future Microsoft's sole product was mice and keyboards sold to Apple. I really think that Microsoft mice and keyboards are the best in the buisness. The rest of their stuff they can toos.
Because, unlike the very vocal potential market of Mac users screaming for a 2 button mouse, there is absolutely zero demand in the PC world for a 1-button mouse.
PC users often see the 1-button mouse as regressive. Another hurdle for Mac acceptance.
It'd be nice if Apple at least offered a 3rd-party mouse as a replacement for theirs.
Still, ultimately, one can easily buy a 3rd party mouse and use it. Us laptop touchpad users, sadly, have no such workaround.
It wasn't Mac elitism but it probably is the voice of computer experience. The whole object of an input device on a computer is to perform a task with least amount of movement/effort thus cutting down overall time on repetitive tasks. There is no better input device out there then keyboard for such a task. Please don't take this wrong but if you are advanced computer user wanting a 3+ button mouse your missing out on the fastest input method that being key commands. There is almost always a reason to keep at least one hand on the keyboard so why not learn some key commands so you can cut down on your overall mousing time. Yes moving the cursor from one side of the screen to another does take too long when you can hit a simple key command to perform the action needed in most cases. I don't want this to sound elitist or anything I'm just pointing out a simple fact. Yes, it's an advanced skill but if you user your computer all the time it doesn't take long to pick up on a couple a week and soon you'll know so many key commands that you will hardly ever need the mouse.
Except to press submit because for some reason Safari is stupid and doesn't let you tab between action buttons.
Springfield and mice
On an off-topic note, I noticed that Macbandit is from Springfield, Oregon, home of the Simpsons. Sorry, that's not correct. The Simpsons' Springfield is in Hawaii. Everyone should realize that.
As far as mice go, if Apple does or does not make a multi-button mouse, it doesn't matter to me. I still go and buy multi-button mice. Logitech mice have worked pretty well for me, so why worry?
However there some people who could benefit from just one mouse button. People who are not used to computers (young children or older people, for example) might enjoy the simplicity of a one button mouse. However, people who enjoy the flexibility of a multi-button mouse can do so.
On an off-topic note, I noticed that Macbandit is from Springfield, Oregon, home of the Simpsons. Sorry, that's not correct. The Simpsons' Springfield is in Hawaii. Everyone should realize that.
As far as mice go, if Apple does or does not make a multi-button mouse, it doesn't matter to me. I still go and buy multi-button mice. Logitech mice have worked pretty well for me, so why worry?
However there some people who could benefit from just one mouse button. People who are not used to computers (young children or older people, for example) might enjoy the simplicity of a one button mouse. However, people who enjoy the flexibility of a multi-button mouse can do so.
Re: Springfield and mice
My information comes from an interview with Matt Groening. He lived in Springfield, OR for a while and that is why it is primarily based here though he says the people surrounding area are based on towns he has visited all over the U.S..
Originally posted by edenwaith
On an off-topic note, I noticed that Macbandit is from Springfield, Oregon, home of the Simpsons. Sorry, that's not correct. The Simpsons' Springfield is in Hawaii. Everyone should realize that.
My information comes from an interview with Matt Groening. He lived in Springfield, OR for a while and that is why it is primarily based here though he says the people surrounding area are based on towns he has visited all over the U.S..
Keyboard vs. Mouse
Ah, the classic keyboard versus mouse debate: which is better? It's also along the same lines of the command-line vs. GUI. In the end, each have their own particular benefits and drawbacks, and it's the combination between the two which can bring out the full power in a system.
If I'm using a text editor, particular keyboard shortcuts can often perform actions quicker than taking the mouse, moving to a particular command an selecting it. However, the mouse can do other tasks, such as highlighting specific areas easier than just a keyboard. Some people live and die by vi, mostly because they learned so many of its little tricks and quirks that they wouldn't want to go without it otherwise.
Generally using a GUI OS with a mouse works very well for most of us, but there are odd times when using a command-line can prove a faster solution. If I wanted to delete all of the images from a folder of 1000 images which contain the number 1 in them, I could easily perform this with a simple one-line command, but doing this with just the mouse would be a real chore in finding all of the correct files and then selecting them and trashing them. Not real fun.
Ah, the classic keyboard versus mouse debate: which is better? It's also along the same lines of the command-line vs. GUI. In the end, each have their own particular benefits and drawbacks, and it's the combination between the two which can bring out the full power in a system.
If I'm using a text editor, particular keyboard shortcuts can often perform actions quicker than taking the mouse, moving to a particular command an selecting it. However, the mouse can do other tasks, such as highlighting specific areas easier than just a keyboard. Some people live and die by vi, mostly because they learned so many of its little tricks and quirks that they wouldn't want to go without it otherwise.
Generally using a GUI OS with a mouse works very well for most of us, but there are odd times when using a command-line can prove a faster solution. If I wanted to delete all of the images from a folder of 1000 images which contain the number 1 in them, I could easily perform this with a simple one-line command, but doing this with just the mouse would be a real chore in finding all of the correct files and then selecting them and trashing them. Not real fun.
Re: Re: Springfield and mice
Ah, is that where the name comes from. At a presentation, a person from the crowd asked one of the writers of The Simpsons where Springfield was, and he replied Hawaii. Makes sense, doesn't it? Besides the lack of tropical flora, weather, beaches...hmmm...just about everything, I guess.
Ah, is that where the name comes from.
At a presentation, a person from the crowd asked one of the writers of The Simpsons where Springfield was, and he replied Hawaii. Makes sense, doesn't it? Besides the lack of tropical flora, weather, beaches...hmmm...just about everything, I guess.
it's pretty amazing how passionate everyone is about this debate we got going here. as i mentioned before, i think it really comes down to personal preference.
the one point i think apple is really missing (as well as some in our debate), is that apple could make a quite a bit of money by providing a 2 button/wheel mouse. if you like the one button mouse that's great, but for others that want more buttons, why not have it available and not give money away to third party companies and m$.
the one point i think apple is really missing (as well as some in our debate), is that apple could make a quite a bit of money by providing a 2 button/wheel mouse. if you like the one button mouse that's great, but for others that want more buttons, why not have it available and not give money away to third party companies and m$.
Re: Steve Jobs take note!
Hey dude, just because it has struck a nerve doesn't necessarily mean Apple should make a 2 button mouse. I'm not gonna use all the old arguments, but not everyone here wants one, me as an example. I hate two button mice. It is a fact of life for me. Sure, maybe 50 people have posted in this thread, and maybe 25 of them want a two button mouse (and maybe my numbers are off) but just because a thread about two button mice has more posts than a thread about panther doesn't mean mice are more important.
Hey dude, just because it has struck a nerve doesn't necessarily mean Apple should make a 2 button mouse. I'm not gonna use all the old arguments, but not everyone here wants one, me as an example. I hate two button mice. It is a fact of life for me. Sure, maybe 50 people have posted in this thread, and maybe 25 of them want a two button mouse (and maybe my numbers are off) but just because a thread about two button mice has more posts than a thread about panther doesn't mean mice are more important.
Re: 2+ buttons != pro
brilliant! thank you, thank you, thank you! i have been waiting for someone to state that so elegantly.
in a nutshell, i think that's the key to apple's decision: it's to preserve the simplicity and elegance of the hand = mouse = cursor relationship.
of course, it's a whole 'nother question whether or not apple should provide an option for those of us who have learned to operate above and beyond that simple metaphor. (and learning to modify that simple interaction with either key-modifier or alternate mouse button is less intuitive, although by how much i can't say. and i'm not qualified to say which type of modifier is "easier" or "more intuitive.")
brilliant! thank you, thank you, thank you! i have been waiting for someone to state that so elegantly.
in a nutshell, i think that's the key to apple's decision: it's to preserve the simplicity and elegance of the hand = mouse = cursor relationship.
of course, it's a whole 'nother question whether or not apple should provide an option for those of us who have learned to operate above and beyond that simple metaphor. (and learning to modify that simple interaction with either key-modifier or alternate mouse button is less intuitive, although by how much i can't say. and i'm not qualified to say which type of modifier is "easier" or "more intuitive.")
Keeping my Kensington Studio Wireless (for now)
I like multiple buttons, and I like scrolling.
So, unless Apple (note 'unless', rather than 'until',) releases a two-button-plus-scroll mouse, I'll stick with someone else's. I love my Kensington Studio Mouse Wireless, by the way. If it was Bluetooth, it would be absolutely perfect in every way (that matters to me.) Three buttons (I have the little third button mapped to Cmd-[, which is 'Back' in most Apple programs,) and a scroll pad. For those that haven't seen one, the scroll pad is a touch-sensitive area where a scroll wheel should be. It's the same basic technology as the scroll wheel on the iPod, and the trackpad on notebooks. You just run your finger along it to scroll, or press and hold lightly at the top or bottom to continuously scroll.
Mine is the currently-available model that has a USB receiver that doubles as a charging station. I would gladly give up the recharging base and use my own rechargeables to get Bluetooth, though.
Plus, it matches the color of my 12" PowerBook. (Which will hopefully be traded in on a 1.25GHz 15" soon.)
When we get the PowerMac G5 for my wife, I'll probably go for the Apple wireless keyboard and mouse, but not for me. (My wife wants a 1.8GHz G5, with 23" Cinema HD. We won't be getting it until early next year, though, so hopefully they'll have both a faster tower, and a matching display, by then. For that matter, hopefully they'll have a keyboard and mouse that matches the Al enclosures.)
I like multiple buttons, and I like scrolling.
So, unless Apple (note 'unless', rather than 'until',) releases a two-button-plus-scroll mouse, I'll stick with someone else's. I love my Kensington Studio Mouse Wireless, by the way. If it was Bluetooth, it would be absolutely perfect in every way (that matters to me.) Three buttons (I have the little third button mapped to Cmd-[, which is 'Back' in most Apple programs,) and a scroll pad. For those that haven't seen one, the scroll pad is a touch-sensitive area where a scroll wheel should be. It's the same basic technology as the scroll wheel on the iPod, and the trackpad on notebooks. You just run your finger along it to scroll, or press and hold lightly at the top or bottom to continuously scroll.
Mine is the currently-available model that has a USB receiver that doubles as a charging station. I would gladly give up the recharging base and use my own rechargeables to get Bluetooth, though.
Plus, it matches the color of my 12" PowerBook. (Which will hopefully be traded in on a 1.25GHz 15" soon.)
When we get the PowerMac G5 for my wife, I'll probably go for the Apple wireless keyboard and mouse, but not for me. (My wife wants a 1.8GHz G5, with 23" Cinema HD. We won't be getting it until early next year, though, so hopefully they'll have both a faster tower, and a matching display, by then. For that matter, hopefully they'll have a keyboard and mouse that matches the Al enclosures.)
Re: Keeping my Kensington Studio Wireless (for now)
While I have been a major voice for Apples position I too have a Kensington StudioMouse though it is a wired version. They didn't have the wireless when I bought mine. I too think it's the perfect mouse. Now here's where I verify my previous statements. If Apple came out with a mouse for the Mac with two buttons and a scroll wheel I would probably stick with this mouse because it fits me so well. That's the issue to me. Why should Apple compete in a market that is already so saturated with good mice. Also mice and input devices are like buying shoes. There is no one mouse that will fit everyone. Those that think any mouse will do probably haven't tried a few and found that weight, size, shape have a big difference on comfort and speed. I think Apple has already figured this out so they supply the simplest mouse they can and if someone wants something else they have a wide selection of 3rd party mice to chose from.
While I have been a major voice for Apples position I too have a Kensington StudioMouse though it is a wired version. They didn't have the wireless when I bought mine. I too think it's the perfect mouse. Now here's where I verify my previous statements. If Apple came out with a mouse for the Mac with two buttons and a scroll wheel I would probably stick with this mouse because it fits me so well. That's the issue to me. Why should Apple compete in a market that is already so saturated with good mice. Also mice and input devices are like buying shoes. There is no one mouse that will fit everyone. Those that think any mouse will do probably haven't tried a few and found that weight, size, shape have a big difference on comfort and speed. I think Apple has already figured this out so they supply the simplest mouse they can and if someone wants something else they have a wide selection of 3rd party mice to chose from.
Can people learn multiple buttons
I have just three words on the subject of whether the "common man" can learn how to use a 2 button wired pointing device.
Playstation
XBox
GameCube
Each one has 8 buttons and 2 joysticks on it pad, yet somehow millions of people figure them out and master them. AND the buttons all do different things in different games. Let's face it Asteroids killed all arguments that people wouldn't figure out what to do with two buttons
I have just three words on the subject of whether the "common man" can learn how to use a 2 button wired pointing device.
Playstation
XBox
GameCube
Each one has 8 buttons and 2 joysticks on it pad, yet somehow millions of people figure them out and master them. AND the buttons all do different things in different games. Let's face it Asteroids killed all arguments that people wouldn't figure out what to do with two buttons
When Apple can do something better and wants to do it better, Apple does it better. In other cases, they don't. If you can afford a Mac, you can afford another mouse. And frankly, having Steve Jobs as the CEO of Apple is worth the trouble of buying an extra mouse. This is the man that saved Apple. He thinks of the Mac as a work of art, and not just a product. So we can expect him to be stubborn about it. The Mona Lisa was not painted to meet customer demand.
Why don't you just make a keyboard that you can easily push around, and add another row of keys for mouse functions? Yes, I know it's a dumb idea. I used to use a four button mouse, but came to realize that it was a dumb idea too.
OK, modifier buttons aren't any more intuitive than second mouse buttons. However, they do keep your hand on the keyboard (which cuts down on transition time between mouse and keyboard.) Also, for new users, there's something even more intuitive than a second mouse button: NOT USING CONTEXTUAL MENUS AT ALL.
Contextual menus and keyboard shortcuts are just that, shortcuts, that you learn as you become more proficient at computers. A one button mouse provides for an easier learning curve. A two button mouse by itself may not be that hard, but if you're trying to learn how to do 100 different things at the same time, any added complexity is gonna be hard. What Apple is (rightly) doing is setting the learning curve to start low. After that, you can move up.
The killer app for multibutton mice is none other than one-handed web browsing. That's right! The purpose of a two-button scroll mouse is to look at porn.
Why don't you just make a keyboard that you can easily push around, and add another row of keys for mouse functions? Yes, I know it's a dumb idea. I used to use a four button mouse, but came to realize that it was a dumb idea too.
OK, modifier buttons aren't any more intuitive than second mouse buttons. However, they do keep your hand on the keyboard (which cuts down on transition time between mouse and keyboard.) Also, for new users, there's something even more intuitive than a second mouse button: NOT USING CONTEXTUAL MENUS AT ALL.
Contextual menus and keyboard shortcuts are just that, shortcuts, that you learn as you become more proficient at computers. A one button mouse provides for an easier learning curve. A two button mouse by itself may not be that hard, but if you're trying to learn how to do 100 different things at the same time, any added complexity is gonna be hard. What Apple is (rightly) doing is setting the learning curve to start low. After that, you can move up.
The killer app for multibutton mice is none other than one-handed web browsing. That's right! The purpose of a two-button scroll mouse is to look at porn.
Re: Re: Moron!
It's a good thing I didn't advocate their extinction then.
My desire to see Apple introduce a 3 button mouse (2 with scroll) is not solely based on my industry experience. While you are correct-- that most web savvy users who participate in polls and forums are most likely to want one-- they want one in HUGE majority. According to this poll,
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=6359
... only 14% want to keep a one button mouse.
I agree that if you were to poll most non-web-savvy users they would say the one button mouse is fine... but to say that I'm basing it on "all people under 30 get it" is a gross misinterpretation. If you're under 50 years old you've grown up with GUI/mouse computers most of your life. My 55 year old father understands it perfectly, and so does my 78 year old grandfather.
Not having a 2 button mouse option is EMBARRASING to the professional crowd or to switchers. One button mice are by their nature simple and exceedingly limited. I am a HUGE supported of RSS reduction with a one-button mouse, since it's entire surface is a button.
Let the consumer models come with a consumer one button mouse. Let professional machines come with the (now standard) 3 button.
It's a good thing I didn't advocate their extinction then.
My desire to see Apple introduce a 3 button mouse (2 with scroll) is not solely based on my industry experience. While you are correct-- that most web savvy users who participate in polls and forums are most likely to want one-- they want one in HUGE majority. According to this poll,
http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=6359
... only 14% want to keep a one button mouse.
I agree that if you were to poll most non-web-savvy users they would say the one button mouse is fine... but to say that I'm basing it on "all people under 30 get it" is a gross misinterpretation. If you're under 50 years old you've grown up with GUI/mouse computers most of your life. My 55 year old father understands it perfectly, and so does my 78 year old grandfather.
Not having a 2 button mouse option is EMBARRASING to the professional crowd or to switchers. One button mice are by their nature simple and exceedingly limited. I am a HUGE supported of RSS reduction with a one-button mouse, since it's entire surface is a button.
Let the consumer models come with a consumer one button mouse. Let professional machines come with the (now standard) 3 button.
There is more than a subtle difference here. The Mac user would have little useful iApp equivalents if it were not for Apple's own. On the other hand (yes, I know I should have started off 'on the ONE hand') Steve J can have his cake and eat it too. The 3rd party mice out there are fantastic from MS to Kensington's. So, SJ knows full well that the criticism is really empty bluster-- you CAN get what you want-- it's just not Apple's. And he, SJ, gets to keep making 'one-clickers.'
So, to those who think you're being f**d, you do not have to expose yourself in an intromissive posture. SJ isn't going there!! So move on!
As I think someone else posted along the way, a two-button mouse with both buttons set to function identically by default would be the ideal solution.
Beginners wouldn't have to worry about which button to click, since both would do the same thing. More advanced users could program either button to do other things, such as control click. Unlike Windows, though, it would be their choice.
I can't think of any downside.
Beginners wouldn't have to worry about which button to click, since both would do the same thing. More advanced users could program either button to do other things, such as control click. Unlike Windows, though, it would be their choice.
I can't think of any downside.
You can buy a $20 two button scrolly wheel mouse that looks almost exactly like Apple's - except the light is blue and not red.
Buy that, sell the Apple mouse on eBay for $30, and you're up $10. What the heck is the problem?!?
Apple can either include a one or two button mouse. For something to be included with the system, it should cater to the novices before the experts, because the experts know of the alternatives. Besides, there are plenty experts that prefer the one button mouse as well.
I can.
What's the use of having two completely identical buttons? It's a stupid idea. No sane designer would give something a vestigial...mouse button.