I'll move on when I can replace the mouse on a PowerBook with a MS mouse or Kensington. Until that day it is an issue and will be an issue for anyone who wants a laptop without dragging along a blasted external mouse.
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2 Button Mouse?
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I'll move on when I can replace the mouse on a PowerBook with a MS mouse or Kensington. Until that day it is an issue and will be an issue for anyone who wants a laptop without dragging along a blasted external mouse.
Re: Re: 2+ buttons != pro
Key word here: " I"
Well dang. Why don't we all go back to BBS's and the Lynx browser. In fact lets go back to the command prompt. Enough of this GUI experiment. I want my c:\> again!!! [Please note tongue firmly planted in cheek.]
Do you really believe that hitting a series of key commands is THAT much faster then going to a drop down menu and selecting from that?!?! You save what? Less then 2-3 seconds? I'm fairly sure in the grand scheme of things in one's day you wouldn't be increasing your productivity by 300% with keyboard shortcuts. Yes it would speed certain tasks up but not by that much. The reasons for the GUI was to get away from needing a keyboard interface and to make things simpler. The keyboard at this point is used for entering data and not usually for OS\application interaction.
At least not until you start playing at the command line where your keyboard becomes way more powerful then the mouse.
Key word here: " I"
Well dang. Why don't we all go back to BBS's and the Lynx browser. In fact lets go back to the command prompt. Enough of this GUI experiment. I want my c:\> again!!! [Please note tongue firmly planted in cheek.]
Do you really believe that hitting a series of key commands is THAT much faster then going to a drop down menu and selecting from that?!?! You save what? Less then 2-3 seconds? I'm fairly sure in the grand scheme of things in one's day you wouldn't be increasing your productivity by 300% with keyboard shortcuts. Yes it would speed certain tasks up but not by that much. The reasons for the GUI was to get away from needing a keyboard interface and to make things simpler. The keyboard at this point is used for entering data and not usually for OS\application interaction.
At least not until you start playing at the command line where your keyboard becomes way more powerful then the mouse.
Re: Re: Re: 2+ buttons != pro
Well it wouldn't save a great deal of time but what purpose is multiple mouse buttons for if not to save time? I'm just saying that the keyboard is even faster then that.
Well it wouldn't save a great deal of time but what purpose is multiple mouse buttons for if not to save time? I'm just saying that the keyboard is even faster then that.
Re: Re: Re: 2+ buttons != pro
It's not only the command line stuff. I can only speak for myself, but it's an example, and am sure this can be extended to other apps. In Pro Tools (a very intuitive program) you can do everything with the mouse. Switching between different tools, zooming in/out, and almost every other action. This makes it easy to learn. But there are also keyboard shortcuts for all of them, so the fastest way to work is with one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse, and the mouse only for what is really useful. Pointing, selecting, grabbing.
Of course you could fit some of the shortcuts on a multibutton mouse, but how many buttons do you need to fit them all? It's simply not useful.
It's not only the command line stuff. I can only speak for myself, but it's an example, and am sure this can be extended to other apps. In Pro Tools (a very intuitive program) you can do everything with the mouse. Switching between different tools, zooming in/out, and almost every other action. This makes it easy to learn. But there are also keyboard shortcuts for all of them, so the fastest way to work is with one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse, and the mouse only for what is really useful. Pointing, selecting, grabbing.
Of course you could fit some of the shortcuts on a multibutton mouse, but how many buttons do you need to fit them all? It's simply not useful.
Re: Re: Re: 2+ buttons != pro
Yes.
Something that in the larger scheme of things is VERY time-wasting is constantly transitioning between the keyboard and the mouse. If you can keep your hands on the keyboard and use the requisite key commands, you will be much faster.
I didn't miss the point.
Having that happen by default is incredibly dumb, because by default, you'd have two buttons that do the same thing. That's confusing. Yes, you can change it later, but that doesn't help the novice user any. And remember, the original ideal of the Macintosh was so the novice user could use it easily.
Yes.
Something that in the larger scheme of things is VERY time-wasting is constantly transitioning between the keyboard and the mouse. If you can keep your hands on the keyboard and use the requisite key commands, you will be much faster.
I didn't miss the point.
Having that happen by default is incredibly dumb, because by default, you'd have two buttons that do the same thing. That's confusing. Yes, you can change it later, but that doesn't help the novice user any. And remember, the original ideal of the Macintosh was so the novice user could use it easily.
Re: Re: Re: Re: 2+ buttons != pro
How is it confusing? From the user's point of view, it's like having one large button that you can click with either your index or middle finger, just like you do with a one-button mouse. When my kids started using the Mac, I programmed both buttons to function identically for them, so they didn't have to worry about right or left clicking. Worked great.
How is it confusing? From the user's point of view, it's like having one large button that you can click with either your index or middle finger, just like you do with a one-button mouse. When my kids started using the Mac, I programmed both buttons to function identically for them, so they didn't have to worry about right or left clicking. Worked great.
STEVE JOBS CAN HAVE HIS 1-BUTTON MOUSE...
He should also AT LEAST GIVE HIS PRO CUSTOMERS (actually ANY customer) THE O_P_T_I_O_N to purchase a two-button mouse by way of BTO.
I think that perhaps one-button mouse users feel insecure that the miserable 1-buttons will eventually disappear.
I mean... why are some of you fellas gettin your panties in a knot to have them sell BOTH 1 & 2 buttom mouse. It's not going to end the sales of the one-button mouse!
He should also AT LEAST GIVE HIS PRO CUSTOMERS (actually ANY customer) THE O_P_T_I_O_N to purchase a two-button mouse by way of BTO.
I think that perhaps one-button mouse users feel insecure that the miserable 1-buttons will eventually disappear.
I mean... why are some of you fellas gettin your panties in a knot to have them sell BOTH 1 & 2 buttom mouse. It's not going to end the sales of the one-button mouse!
Attachments
what is it with you stubborn one-button mouse freaks! i just want the option to buy one after market one. which i have, but i'd much rather buy one from apple for several reasons, for one i love apple's design and quality, but more so in support of apple.
while we're at it, f#ck the mouse! i want a pointer that's controlled by the movement of my eye, a voice activated command system with dictation, and a virtual glove for apps where you need more control. that way i don't have to use my hands at all. furthermore i want my mac to be about the size of an airport card and i want my apple cinema display to be 60" and mounted on the wall. that way i can surf the net and do my work from the couch... now that would be intuitive compared to the old one button mouse.
one last thing, the good 'ol one button is about as fresh and usefull as mac os 9... people get over it, just give me the option to purchase a two button mouse from apple!
a little fuel for the fire ; )
while we're at it, f#ck the mouse! i want a pointer that's controlled by the movement of my eye, a voice activated command system with dictation, and a virtual glove for apps where you need more control. that way i don't have to use my hands at all. furthermore i want my mac to be about the size of an airport card and i want my apple cinema display to be 60" and mounted on the wall. that way i can surf the net and do my work from the couch... now that would be intuitive compared to the old one button mouse.
one last thing, the good 'ol one button is about as fresh and usefull as mac os 9... people get over it, just give me the option to purchase a two button mouse from apple!
a little fuel for the fire ; )
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2+ buttons != pro
It begs the question, "Why does the damn thing have 2 buttons if they do the same thing?"
And BTW...sure, BTO a 2-button mouse. I'm fine with that. I think an Apple 2-button mouse would be absolutely sexy, just like anything else Apple makes.
Optimally, I want a pair of goggles that have a virtual 50" widescreen that allows me to move the pointer with my eyes, and click left or right by winking either eye.
On second thought...naah. Just give me the goggles.
It begs the question, "Why does the damn thing have 2 buttons if they do the same thing?"
And BTW...sure, BTO a 2-button mouse. I'm fine with that. I think an Apple 2-button mouse would be absolutely sexy, just like anything else Apple makes.
Optimally, I want a pair of goggles that have a virtual 50" widescreen that allows me to move the pointer with my eyes, and click left or right by winking either eye.
On second thought...naah. Just give me the goggles.
one button
Well, I don't have a degree in psychology, but by my estimation, this arguement is exactly what apple needs. If I were trying to get you to buy my computers, I'd be giddy at the fact that you're arguing over mouse buttons. It would signify two things: You want and love mac computers, and you aren't going to be bashing anothers mac choice, because you're spending your bashing energy (and all people do it to some extent) on the topic of mice.
Don't you feel like suckers now?
Well, I don't have a degree in psychology, but by my estimation, this arguement is exactly what apple needs. If I were trying to get you to buy my computers, I'd be giddy at the fact that you're arguing over mouse buttons. It would signify two things: You want and love mac computers, and you aren't going to be bashing anothers mac choice, because you're spending your bashing energy (and all people do it to some extent) on the topic of mice.
Don't you feel like suckers now?
Originally posted by fred
LOL...simplistic is DEFINITELY the right term ...although probably not the one you wanted to use
It seems that Apple is still displaying the NIH (not invented here) syndrome which was so prevalent in the late 80s and early and mid 90s.... heck Microsoft is set to soon introduce a mouse that scrolls horizontally.... can you spell STONE AGE
So that explains usb, pci, pci-x, hyper-transport, fast user switching, bluetooth, etc...
backdraft
P.S. Apple should offer a multi-button mouse + scroll wheel as long as they keep the shape and height of the Apple Pro Mouse (I hate those mice with the big bulge in the middle... uncomfortable, the Apple Pro mouse is the right height). Heck, sell both and let the customer choose; Single or Multi button.
Considering that products like Shake require 3 button mouse... Apple is selling hardware that requires additional hardware purchase to use it's software properly. That seems a little silly to me. Macs are for artists and such, right? Who uses multi-button mice more than anyone else? Artists. I can't imagine using PS with a one button mouse.
First thing I do when I buy my Macs. Get all googly-eyed over how beautiful the new mouse is... then... toss the sucker into the storage closet. Whip out my new 3-button Logitech optical mouse... attach the baby and get back to work.
Almost every digital artist I have seen or met uses a tablet and could care less about a mouse. Should Apple include tablets with every Pro Mac?
I do professional film and video for a living.... I use both a mouse and a tablet. And yes, a three-button mouse is essential for various aspects of the job.
I see trackballs primarily being used by audio engineers. To prevent themselves from hitting sliders on their work desks during a recording or mixing session.
Personally, after being a power PC user for the past 15 years, the 1-button will be refreshingly simple (i am waiting for my next pay-check to order my first Mac).
A fully-keyboard-person, I have never found compelling use for the scroll-wheel even when I had it at work (never bought it at home), and now with a 5-year old at home, seeing her struggle with many an inadvertant right-click makes me irritably wish that MS had offered a single-button [ Don't start on how I can disable the right-button; it does not work many places; also, most of the PC software is built around the availability of the 2nd button].
My parents have used only PCs since I intro-ed them, and I am looking forward to exposing them to the simplicity of the Mac, beginning with the mouse. Once Apple starts offering the 2nd button there will be software that cannot be fully exploited with a single button, and there goes your 'simple'!
My circle (of family and friends ) is 100% PC, but other than those with jobs in IT, very few use the right button : the menu is where they go every time. I have even seen that some get flustered when the right-button clicks by mistake
I can empathize with the frustration of a power-user who is heavily dependent on a particular style of working, like the more complex mouse, but I do not believe power-users are in any way 'the majority'.
Just because the vocal majority in these forums wants more buttons does not make it a universal demand, more likely an 'elite' one. So I am not surprised Apple is ignoring this.
A fully-keyboard-person, I have never found compelling use for the scroll-wheel even when I had it at work (never bought it at home), and now with a 5-year old at home, seeing her struggle with many an inadvertant right-click makes me irritably wish that MS had offered a single-button
[ Don't start on how I can disable the right-button; it does not work many places; also, most of the PC software is built around the availability of the 2nd button]. My parents have used only PCs since I intro-ed them, and I am looking forward to exposing them to the simplicity of the Mac, beginning with the mouse. Once Apple starts offering the 2nd button there will be software that cannot be fully exploited with a single button, and there goes your 'simple'!
My circle (of family and friends ) is 100% PC, but other than those with jobs in IT, very few use the right button : the menu is where they go every time. I have even seen that some get flustered when the right-button clicks by mistake
I can empathize with the frustration of a power-user who is heavily dependent on a particular style of working, like the more complex mouse, but I do not believe power-users are in any way 'the majority'.
Just because the vocal majority in these forums wants more buttons does not make it a universal demand, more likely an 'elite' one. So I am not surprised Apple is ignoring this.
For a company which makes superior products, they sure use an inferior mouse... The right button and scroll wheel are invaluable. Sure, they are simply "conveniences" since both can be done with either keyboard-click combos, or the scroll bar. However, they sure speed up computer use and make it easier to use a computer with one hand. Why Apple is so anti-ease of use on this one detail I will never understand. Fortunately, you can use any mouse with the new Macs and MacOS X fully supports a two button wheel mouse (which to me is an admission their mouse isn't adequate for everybody, and I'm very glad they'll at least admit that.). Unfortunately, said mouse doesn't look Appley. A nice Logitech is a nice looking, working mouse. But it's so anti-Mac in design.
Who really needs a second button on their mouse? Do you really need to have the other hand free for something else (read: 'more sticky')? Unless you've only got one arm, then it is just a simple matter of pressing 'control'.
Think also about the people who mouse with their left hand (They exist I'm told), do you now have to change all your documentation to read "right-click unless you mouse left-handed, then in that case left-click?" Take a gander at your keyboard, would ya? Look! A control key on the left and right hand side!
and finally,
The customer is not always right. Lee Iococca
Think also about the people who mouse with their left hand (They exist I'm told), do you now have to change all your documentation to read "right-click unless you mouse left-handed, then in that case left-click?" Take a gander at your keyboard, would ya? Look! A control key on the left and right hand side!
and finally,
The customer is not always right. Lee Iococca
2 Buttons
I'm a lefty and I use my 2 button mouse all time. I have never even bothered to switch buttons. I left click with my middle finger. I find it very easy to switch back and forth between hand, in case one arm starts getting tired.
Amen to the previous poster. Logitech and MS mice look like A$$, next to my shiny Apple keyboard. (btw these clear Apple keyboard should also have an "opaque" option. It's a fact of lift in an office, People eat at their computers and the crumbs end up in the keyboards. They accumulate at the bottom, and are really disgusting. I can't give an old keyboard to someone if there keyboard breaks, becuase, they are too grossed out by someone elses crumbs. Opaque, Opaque, Opaque, out of sight, out of mind)
Anyway I love being able we right click on any document in Windows and have the "Send to" option available. Especially after working tech support I can tell you it is very easy to help a person locate a document and then tell them to right click and choose "send to email recipient" Most people are freaked out that it's so easy to send an attachment that way.
I love the way right clicking cuts down on repetitive mouse movements with right click in windows you almost never "need' to go all the way up the menu bar. And with 1200x1600 monitiors that can be a long trip, even with dynamically accelerating mouse software.
This should be a really simple thing, if you can't figure out the 2nd button don't use it, but why on earth prevent other people from having it. I simply want a cool looking Apple branded 2 button mouse.
Does any know what happened to "tilt-click". I remember someone once saw a refence to it either in an early OS X build or in a late Rhapsody build.
I'm a lefty and I use my 2 button mouse all time. I have never even bothered to switch buttons. I left click with my middle finger. I find it very easy to switch back and forth between hand, in case one arm starts getting tired.
Amen to the previous poster. Logitech and MS mice look like A$$, next to my shiny Apple keyboard. (btw these clear Apple keyboard should also have an "opaque" option. It's a fact of lift in an office, People eat at their computers and the crumbs end up in the keyboards. They accumulate at the bottom, and are really disgusting. I can't give an old keyboard to someone if there keyboard breaks, becuase, they are too grossed out by someone elses crumbs. Opaque, Opaque, Opaque, out of sight, out of mind)
Anyway I love being able we right click on any document in Windows and have the "Send to" option available. Especially after working tech support I can tell you it is very easy to help a person locate a document and then tell them to right click and choose "send to email recipient" Most people are freaked out that it's so easy to send an attachment that way.
I love the way right clicking cuts down on repetitive mouse movements with right click in windows you almost never "need' to go all the way up the menu bar. And with 1200x1600 monitiors that can be a long trip, even with dynamically accelerating mouse software.
This should be a really simple thing, if you can't figure out the 2nd button don't use it, but why on earth prevent other people from having it. I simply want a cool looking Apple branded 2 button mouse.
Does any know what happened to "tilt-click". I remember someone once saw a refence to it either in an early OS X build or in a late Rhapsody build.
Re: 2 Buttons
Whatever happened to control-click? Two-button mice are nice for gamers and porn surfers, but the average user---wait, that is the average user. Never mind...
Whatever happened to control-click? Two-button mice are nice for gamers and porn surfers, but the average user---wait, that is the average user. Never mind...