I love it. All the people that "hit Siri on accident" must not know that you can disable it. There is literally ways to disable or get around every complaint people have about it. I have had it for 2 years and have never accidently hit Siri or any button... You can customize it to your advantage and it becomes handy
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2 years in, is the TouchBar still a gimmick?
- Thread starter Yr Blues
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Been using it on my 2017 15” MBP for a year and now it feels weird to use a computer without it. I was one of the early haters of the Touch Bar without actually trying it and now I’ve grown quite fond of it.
I was definitely one of the early haters of the touch bar as well and I still hate it. I do not understand why Apple made it. It sometimes freezes too lol
No key could ever let me select colours like the TouchBar does.
It's a complete gimmick. Some people will surely find it useful. But that's the definition of a gimmick - a small minority of specialized users finds it useful while the vast majority has absolutely no use for it, and many suffer from its discomfort.
If you want to scroll - the trackpad is far superior
If you want to press - the buttons are far superior
And they both don't take your eyes away from the screen - unlike the touchbar.
Plus, it's adding unnecessary complexity to the whole system. iOS connected to Mac OS via Bridge OS, what could possibly go wrong?
Any system is as reliable as its weakest link. And Apple has REALLY screwed this up with this glued-together brick that will cost you $$$ every time anything happens to it.
keyboard breaks? Full machine repair
SSD breaks? Full machine repair
RAM problems? Full machine repair
Bridge OS problems? Full ma...oh wait, this cannot even be repaired yet
I really hope they get rid of it or at least make it optional, like the trackpad for iMac. If you want one - get one, but it should not be compulsory with a $300 increase on top of an already expensive and unreliable machine.
If you want to scroll - the trackpad is far superior
If you want to press - the buttons are far superior
And they both don't take your eyes away from the screen - unlike the touchbar.
Plus, it's adding unnecessary complexity to the whole system. iOS connected to Mac OS via Bridge OS, what could possibly go wrong?
Any system is as reliable as its weakest link. And Apple has REALLY screwed this up with this glued-together brick that will cost you $$$ every time anything happens to it.keyboard breaks? Full machine repair
SSD breaks? Full machine repair
RAM problems? Full machine repair
Bridge OS problems? Full ma...oh wait, this cannot even be repaired yet
I really hope they get rid of it or at least make it optional, like the trackpad for iMac. If you want one - get one, but it should not be compulsory with a $300 increase on top of an already expensive and unreliable machine.
I quite like it but it hasn't really been developed enough and it isn't essential
It's one of those things you really have to put some effort into a bit at first and then you start to get the benefits.
If you want it to just grab you, it won't and you will probably not use it much.
I would really miss the ID touch button.
I have an 'esc' touch on it which I use regularly and so I can't understand why some don't.
And I don't really see why anyone would hate it.
Really? It bothers you that much that you hate it rather than just ignore it?
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It's one of those things you really have to put some effort into a bit at first and then you start to get the benefits.
If you want it to just grab you, it won't and you will probably not use it much.
I would really miss the ID touch button.
I have an 'esc' touch on it which I use regularly and so I can't understand why some don't.
And I don't really see why anyone would hate it.
Really? It bothers you that much that you hate it rather than just ignore it?
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It doesn't do that on mine. Easily reach maximum volume. Must be something different about yours. The volume slider on mine is only about 2" long with a small speaker symbol at one end a large speaker at the other. Reaches maximum before I reach the speaker symbol.
The way it is right now it's pretty useless to me. Shorten it a bit on the left and put a physical escape key there so I don't get annoyed whenever I have to edit something in vi, then we'll talk. If Apple gave me more customisation options, like letting me turn it into a static information display if I so wanted, then I could maybe see some appeal. I tried doing that with BetterTouchTool and it was nice for a moment, but BTT glitched out soon and lost all settings, so I disabled that again. I just don't want worse, non-tactile buttons on a display that turns off when there's been no input. As for application-specific things on there, I don't like the constant flickering between those when rapidly changing programs. Also, no software I use has anything compelling to put there, so I mostly have it display the expanded control strip.
If I could buy the identical 15" MBPs without the Tb for less money I wouldn't even need to think about that. If they cost the same, I'd probably still take the version without.
If I could buy the identical 15" MBPs without the Tb for less money I wouldn't even need to think about that. If they cost the same, I'd probably still take the version without.
It’s not possible to ignore the Touch Bar when its presence removes a key that you use thousands of times a day. Imagine how you would feel if the Touch Bar replaced the space bar in the keyboard. Could you just ignore that?
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2 years in, the TB is a gimmick, developers and even Apple have not really embraced the touchbar. Apple has improved and updated the T1 chip with the send gen called the T2, rolled it out to the iMac Pro, MacBook Pro, Mini and MacBook Air. With the exception of the MBP, Apple did not add the Touchbar to those updated machines. The MBP remains the only computer apple sells that has the TouchBar.
Even though we see a T2, Apple has not updated the touchbar, one could make an argument that apple is letting this technology whither on the vine.
Apple computers are a niche at around 10 to 13% market share, and the MBP being a subset of that niche, developers have largely ignored the TB
Design wise and ergonomically, the TB is more disruptive and less efficient in most tasks. You can do much of what you can do on the TB with the mouse, or keyboard shortcuts. With both of those, you don't need to take your eyes off the display, where as with the TB, you need to stop, look and initiate the action. Why would I want to stop typing, look for the emoticon image on the TB, select the emoji when I can keep typing and just hit cmd+cntl+space.
Overall, its my opinion that the Touchbar is a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
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Even though we see a T2, Apple has not updated the touchbar, one could make an argument that apple is letting this technology whither on the vine.
Apple computers are a niche at around 10 to 13% market share, and the MBP being a subset of that niche, developers have largely ignored the TB
Design wise and ergonomically, the TB is more disruptive and less efficient in most tasks. You can do much of what you can do on the TB with the mouse, or keyboard shortcuts. With both of those, you don't need to take your eyes off the display, where as with the TB, you need to stop, look and initiate the action. Why would I want to stop typing, look for the emoticon image on the TB, select the emoji when I can keep typing and just hit cmd+cntl+space.
Overall, its my opinion that the Touchbar is a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.
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How would I use the function keys, you know that F keys that used to be present that I could press without looking away from my keyboard? I use those every day, and the TB alters that so badly its a royal pain.
All of your examples replaces a product completely, none of them alters the existing one.
There have been several tries throughout the last decade to replace keys with a "touch plate/bar". All of them ended up with the same fate, in the long run they sucked, didn't actually improve anything and died. Tactile feedback reigns supreme.
Actually, I rmember when these came out and people flocked to the these with such enthusiasm, each were awesome ideas in their own right. Why not use a camera that doesn't require the purchase of film, and require the need to develop exposed film.
Actually for keyboards (non-typewriters), function keys were introduced in 1965, and having such a long history (53 years which is an eternity in the computer world), its engrained in how we use computers. Like I said above, I use function keys every day for my work. While some folks don't need it and that's ok, there's still a healthy population that still do, in fact I'd say the majority of computer users have, simply for the fact that you can interact with windows using function keys, i.e., alt-F4 to close a window
Nice to see I am not the only one jumping into unix and using the vi editor
I got my 2016 15" MBP when it dropped.
It's the best computational device I have ever used. It's my favourite machine ever.
BUT DEAR LORD I WISH IT HAD F KEYS AND ESCAPE.
I never *ever* use the touchbar unless I have to. It gets touched by accident more than on purpose.
It's the best computational device I have ever used. It's my favourite machine ever.
BUT DEAR LORD I WISH IT HAD F KEYS AND ESCAPE.
I never *ever* use the touchbar unless I have to. It gets touched by accident more than on purpose.
I don’t have a TB Mac, but having to disable things on my computer to make it work would be too much like using Windows. That said, the customization you mention may make it worth it.
Reasons I like the Touchbar .....
1 .... Whether I want to scrub a Youtube video or Music app, I can do this while having the browser or app completely minimized vs keeping a small window or pulling it back up. Without it, all I can do is previous, skip, and pause.
2 .... As seen above, I replaced the Siri button with the Screenshot button. I use screenshot a lot and this is much more convenient vs a multiple key shortcut.
3 .... Several apps I use all the time, have implemented Touchbar usage very well. AirMail 3, DaVinci Resolve, Logic Pro X, Ableton Live, Photo apps, Calculator, and etc. I wouldn't say the Touchbar factor is necessary, but it's definitely not a gimmick and improves productivity.
4 .... I like the Volume and Brightness sliders. Don't understand the issues people claim to have with it. It really couldn't be any simpler.
I quickly just slide to the left, then I have enough space to slide right to max out. Never take my finger off. Basically rule of thumb is to start sliding to the left first. This is something I haven't even thought about until you mentioned it, just came naturally.
5 .... I can have the function keys as default for certain apps I need it for, and never have to see them on apps I don't use them.
6 .... This might be a lame reason, but it's looks good. That's right, I said it!!! If I'm spending this much, Apple better throw in a coolness factor whether it's needed or not.
1 .... Whether I want to scrub a Youtube video or Music app, I can do this while having the browser or app completely minimized vs keeping a small window or pulling it back up. Without it, all I can do is previous, skip, and pause.
2 .... As seen above, I replaced the Siri button with the Screenshot button. I use screenshot a lot and this is much more convenient vs a multiple key shortcut.
3 .... Several apps I use all the time, have implemented Touchbar usage very well. AirMail 3, DaVinci Resolve, Logic Pro X, Ableton Live, Photo apps, Calculator, and etc. I wouldn't say the Touchbar factor is necessary, but it's definitely not a gimmick and improves productivity.
4 .... I like the Volume and Brightness sliders. Don't understand the issues people claim to have with it. It really couldn't be any simpler.
I quickly just slide to the left, then I have enough space to slide right to max out. Never take my finger off. Basically rule of thumb is to start sliding to the left first. This is something I haven't even thought about until you mentioned it, just came naturally.
5 .... I can have the function keys as default for certain apps I need it for, and never have to see them on apps I don't use them.
6 .... This might be a lame reason, but it's looks good. That's right, I said it!!! If I'm spending this much, Apple better throw in a coolness factor whether it's needed or not.
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That is probably the only useful application of the touch bar. Which still doesn't work on Chrome! Why, Apple?
You can rebind keys to do exactly what you've just described if taking screenshots with a single button is so useful. And unless you are a professional screenshot taker, pressing cmd shift 3 is easily done with one hand.
every single of these apps uses the TB in a way that can (and should) be 100% replaced by the trackpad and keyboard shortcuts if you want to be more productive. Not being forced to look away from the screen is a major factor in that.
They are terrible. Instead of just pushing a button once or twice - which I can do blindly - you have to:
1. Look at the touchbar
2. Find the volume key
3. Hold and slide it
Three actions instead of one - A complete waste of time
Not really. you can't have the function keys, you can have the fake function keys that you have to constantly look at since your fingers cannot remember where they are. Speaking about DaVinci Resolve - good luck with something like "insert edit" on an F9 blindly. And good luck if you are a programmer, you hopefully have rebound esc to somewhere else.
That is literally the worst logic I've heard in my life.
First, it's literally a display glued into a keyboard that also crashes with Bridge OS. Not sure which part of this is cooler.
Second, this machine is already over $3000 with Vega - why not throw some more $$$ on coolness? What next, maybe $300 extra for the return of the illuminated Apple logo and another $300 for an RGB keyboard? Compulsory for all users, of course.
I only find touchbar useful for logic - for shortcuts i dont usually use but like tk have handy (having descriptions on keys as opposed to looking them up is faster).
I’ll probably migrate my tb logic setup to “logic remote” on ipad when i switch to mini.
I’ll probably migrate my tb logic setup to “logic remote” on ipad when i switch to mini.
Pressing cmd/shift/3 doesn't even give you options. It just takes a screenshot. And why would I want to rebind keys, when I can have visuals that help me better?
What are you doing that you can't take a millisecond glance at the Touchbar? I could understand if talking about a desktop experience. But The Touchbar is in line of sight of the display, you don't even have to move your head to glance.
And shortcuts, I'm not a shortcuts type of user and probably never will be. Sure I know the most common ones, but between Mac and Windows and countless apps/programs, I'm just not going to remember shortcuts unless I'm using a specific app for a profession. I'm excellent in shortcuts on music production apps, and that's pretty much it.
couldn't be any simpler than "just drag your finger on a slider that doesn't line up with your finger and make sure you drag in the opposite direction from the way you want to adjust it first to give yourself room just in case"? I'm just going to have to chock it up to differing tastes, because for me it feels very unnatural and I've given myself a couple months to try to adapt.
I simply rest my finger on the volume button, immediately swipe to the left, and then to the right for proper adjustment, all without taking my finger off. It's a millisecond task that I don't even think about.
Those who seldom use function keys and esc key, I can see that the TB can be useful. It may be better to have something different and shiny than keys you are not using anyway.
But doing so, Apple killed those of us using MBP for programming for sure. The lack of touchbar, after the first introduction in 2016, on other mac accessories and Macbook Air is testament to Apple's recognition of its failure I believe.
It's really sad because even a person like me can see that 2015 MBP keyboard with additional row of touch bar would have been a killer.
But doing so, Apple killed those of us using MBP for programming for sure. The lack of touchbar, after the first introduction in 2016, on other mac accessories and Macbook Air is testament to Apple's recognition of its failure I believe.
It's really sad because even a person like me can see that 2015 MBP keyboard with additional row of touch bar would have been a killer.
You have to take your eyes off the screen, then look at the touch bar, then rest finger, and finally drag.
I don't have to take my eyes off anything, or look at anything. All I have to do is press the button. Or hold it.
Way faster. Way simpler. Way more efficient.
And the bright sun doesn't get in the way as it does when using Touch Bar outdoors.
I barely have to take my eyes off the display. For simple things like adjusting volume, it's sort of a peripheral vision thing. I put no focus into it.
Like I mentioned earlier, the Touchbar is basically in line of sight while looking at the display. You're telling me your eyeballs can't glance down for a nano second?