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2 years in, is the TouchBar still a gimmick?
- Thread starter Yr Blues
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A keyboard that forces you to actually look at it is a failure by default.
After hearing all the negative stuff about the Touch Bar I finally had the chance to experience it for myself for the last 3 weeks on my 2017 15" MBP. It is kind of nice that it can be customized. There were shortcuts on the default Apple keyboard (launchpad anyone) that I was never ever going to use. Now I have it set up so that the control strip is expanded by default so that I always have the shortcuts I want available, including night shift and the screenshot shortcut which is nice (although not really necessary). I really did NOT like the touchbar changing with every app. That was frankly just confusing for me and I turned it off quickly. I also hate having a virtual esc key. I've mapped caps lock to esc which is great for getting a physical esc key back. But being able to accidentally press esc by just brushing a finger over that part of the keyboard and accidentally closing something I'm working on sucks. In general the whole design would have been 1000x better if the touchbar strip excluded the esc key (just have it be a physical key right next to the touchbar).
I would still rather not have a touchbar on my laptop and if Apple ever does release a 15" laptop with a keyboard set up like the current MacBook Air, I will be sorely tempted to upgrade again. But the touchbar isn't a deal breaker. Just mildly helpful and mildly annoying. Kind of meh.
I would still rather not have a touchbar on my laptop and if Apple ever does release a 15" laptop with a keyboard set up like the current MacBook Air, I will be sorely tempted to upgrade again. But the touchbar isn't a deal breaker. Just mildly helpful and mildly annoying. Kind of meh.
But you have to. And that is my whole point. I'm not saying it takes a minute or two, it's just that you HAVE to take your eyes off the screen.
It's not in line of sight, since you 'barely have to take your eyes' off the screen. It's below your line of sight.
Sure they can. But I don't want them to take the eyes off the screen when I'm working for some simple things like keyboard/screen brightness or volume control.
I'm a developer. And it's hard to focus, but really easy to get distracted. TB is distracting and useless gimmick to me. Works for you? Well, great for you. But you make it sound like it's better then F keys.
Well, it's not. First off, debugging is way harder when using touch bar. Using simple controls like screen/key brightness or volume is harder. Touchbar adds very little, but takes away so much. Like the ESC key. Like using function keys outdoors, since you can't even see touch bar on bright sunny day.
And MBP is a laptop after all. Imagine that you couldn't see entire keyboard because of sun?
And 99,99% 'features' touch bar brings is easily achieved with keyboard shortcuts. And guess what, keyboard shortcuts are way faster then a touch strip above the keyboard, and below the screen.
I get it. You like the touch bar, and it works for you. That's really great. But since you already skipped the part where I've mentioned that touch bar is completely useless outdoors, please, name just a few things in your line of work where touch bar is better then function keys. I'm asking honestly, so if possible, don't skip this simple question.
I can name a lot of things where touch bar gets in my way when I'm working. And I highly doubt anyone could deny my complaints about touch bar. And the funny thing is, they are all so basic.
So if you really consider TB to be that great, please, give us some of examples where it benefits your workflow. I'm always opened to suggestions, and I honestly love to learn new stuff.
Well the depends on how you use it. My laptop is mostly on my lap, or portable table when I have controllers connected. Basically I'm using it at a close distance the majority of the time. That means I rarely look at the display leveled to my face, my face is mostly above. This means the TB is in my line of sight.
Now if you have your MBP on a desk a half foot away from you and the display is level to your face or slightly above, then I can understand where you are coming from.
It is better than F keys, since I can set F keys to default on apps I use them for, and have the apps I don't use it for have better default keys.
The ESC is always present.
And I since it's at the left end, I can touch it with my eyes close. You don't even have to press it directly, even the black space activates the ESC.
I have no issues with viewing the Touchbar on sunny days. It looks more like e-ink when bright sun hits it.
99% of users are not shortcut gurus.
As mention in my own post quoted
Here's one example ...... I get tons of work emails daily. Many of my clients treat email like a messenger. The buttons I setup on the Touchbar make it so much easier vs constantly using the Touchpad or shortcuts. Otherwise, I'm mostly using touch interface on a tablet or smartphone.
It would be even worse for any desktop computers..
Honestly the TouchBar just feels like a poorly thought out experiment that barely benefits a tiny niche of users of only certain devices in certain contexts.
It's not a concept that scales to other computers in the line or very many situations.
It feels like some people internally thought "hey - I personally never use those F keys for much - maybe we could do something else there?"
If they don't kill it - they should at least make it fully optional, which I expect they'll do now that they've showcased a normal keyboard along with TouchID but no TouchBar on the new MBA.
Highly doubt that one. They will either leave it and improve upon it (nothing can help that gimmick...), or they will admit their mistake and drop it. Highly doubt they will drop it btw.
But leaving users the option would reduce their margins. And todays Apple is all about margins, nothing else matters.
I think they adopt their own version of touch screen and drop the touch bar.I think they'll drop it - but not admit their mistake
I guess we'll find out
I think they'll drop it - but not admit their mistake
I guess we'll find out
That’s my thought as well or keep it as an option and the S̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶s̶ customers who want it will pay an additional $200-$400 for the pleasure.
No gimmick, if it was a fixed Touch Bar I would say it’s a gimmick. But it’s dynamic and useful therefore classy and clever.
No argument, but I'd say many people know a handful of shortcuts and they use those for their increased efficiency. Take copy/paste, would you rather hit cmd-c/cmd-v while still looking at the display and hands on the keyboard or would you rather look down, move your hands to the touchbar and initiate the action that way. I'm using an extreme unrealistic example, but I think it gets my point across. People have knowledge of a handful of shortcuts and they use them well. TB strips that efficiency away.
I also feel they'll drop it and not admit their mistakes, they never really do admit their failures, but to be fair, no company ever does either.
I really, really doubt that. Apple is more invested in iOS and will want to extend the power of the iPad at the cost of the laptop. They see imo, the iPad as the future, and they'll not make a move that impedes that, i.e, a touch based laptop which requires a touch based OS. Just look at the pain MS went though to make windows touchbased. Apple would go through similar headaches.
Its dynamic, but I disagree that its not classy. It could be clever, but too clever, because sometimes simple solutions are that best. For instance, I'd rather hit cmd+ctl+space to post an emoji, rather then stop typing, looking down and then choosing the the emoji
I've said it before, the touchbar is a solution that is looking for a problem (that doesn't exist) that no one asked for.
It's garbage. The only time I use it is to adjust the volume and brightness. I used to be able to do that via muscle memory. Now I have to look away from the screen to make those adjustments, which is a huge step backwards.
I just received a 2018 15" MBP yesterday and really want to love the TB, but I'm not finding it very useful yet. Im trying to force myself to adapt to it and embrace it, but so far I'm not finding any need for this.
Im only 24 hours into owning this MBP and 2 hours of actually usage, so Im hoping it'll grow on me.
Im really hoping for an update with the next OS that will give us more customizable options for the TB and adjust the brightness, etc.
Im only 24 hours into owning this MBP and 2 hours of actually usage, so Im hoping it'll grow on me.
Im really hoping for an update with the next OS that will give us more customizable options for the TB and adjust the brightness, etc.
They won’t drop it, its not a mistake. I love the touchbar and I’m not alone.I think they'll drop it - but not admit their mistake
I guess we'll find out
Oh. Ok
[doublepost=1546383255][/doublepost]
They will drop it, it is a mistake. I hate the touchbar and I’m not alone.
Fun little game.
I'm pretty sure they will drop it. Otherwise, we would have seen a magic keyboard gen 3 with touchbar on it.
Apple decided not to use in Air, so the only segment using the touch bar is MBP 13" & 15". This is very small segment for develeopers to have that much interest in developing anyway. They would not make a magic keyboard with the touchbar due to very small demand for Apple keyboard nowadays. People who opt to go for Apple external keybogard constitute very small percentage of customer base which in Apple fan's logic, does not warrant attention as to maximize the profit. If you are serious about typing and keyboard, you are probably using the other mechanical or other types like HHK keyboard already.
Since Apple is a very proud company, they may not drop it for another generation to delay the acceptance of their failure.
Apple decided not to use in Air, so the only segment using the touch bar is MBP 13" & 15". This is very small segment for develeopers to have that much interest in developing anyway. They would not make a magic keyboard with the touchbar due to very small demand for Apple keyboard nowadays. People who opt to go for Apple external keybogard constitute very small percentage of customer base which in Apple fan's logic, does not warrant attention as to maximize the profit. If you are serious about typing and keyboard, you are probably using the other mechanical or other types like HHK keyboard already.
Since Apple is a very proud company, they may not drop it for another generation to delay the acceptance of their failure.
it ships with all imacs and as far as I've seen most people with minis also get one.
but you are correct about magic keyboard gen3.
they released and imac pro without it, and a new mac mini without it. (also the air)
Anything you can use the touchbar for, except scrubbing video, you can already do with keyboard shortcuts.
Someone posted how they use the touchbar for reply etc to emails - faster to just use Command-R etc
Someone posted how they use the touchbar for reply etc to emails - faster to just use Command-R etc
Yep, many of us are already accustomed to the keyboard shortcuts, but the Touch Bar is still new and may require some to switch their view from the screen to the Touch Bar.. it's counterintuitive.
I imagine years from now when I sell my MBP the majority of buyers will prefer models with a Touch Bar. The one touch lock screen has been most convenient for me.
Precisely...
They have the TouchBar targeted at the wrong models.
The 12" and 13" non-pro's should have the TouchBar when you see the sort of stuff average users do with it.
Power users (Pro laptop demographic) knows all their shortcuts and workflows and that silly touch strip does nothing for most all of those users.
Oh, something tells me that Apple will add it to all laptops eventually. If for no other reason than an excuse to raise prices.
I am sure your plea will be heard in the halls of Apple and your wish will be granted
If so, why did they not start the expansion with the MacBook Air, instead of leaving it out?