2 years in, is the TouchBar still a gimmick?

[Falhófnir]

Personally I’m neutral on the TB - but at this point it seems like it’s not going to catch on. By now they should have rolled it out across the MacBook/Air/Magic Keyboard if they really were serious about it becoming a Mac standard input option.

 

[mdnz]

The TB is nowhere near $200 extra. The price jump from the nTB MBP to the TB MBP is $300 and for that $300 you get:

* Upgrade from dual-core 7th gen processor to quad-core 8th gen processor
* Improved retina display (true-tone)
* Two additional thunderbolt 3 ports
* IRIS Plus Graphics 655 (upgrade from 640)
* The touch bar itself

The touch bar is only a portion of the overall $300 price increase. While none of us know for sure what the actual breakdown is, it seems unlikely to me that it accounts for a full two-thirds of the difference given the scope of the other upgrades.

Apple do not offer any way for us to directly compare the pricing differential since there's no current product where you can spec with or without the touchbar with everything else being equal.

The price difference between the two processors is only $15.

nTB CPU: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i5/i5-7360u
TB CPU: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i5/i5-8259u

So it's $285 for a touch bar, 2 extra ports and a display which changes color depending on the enviroment. I'd say the TB is pretty near $200 (although probably slightly less than that).

 

[unglued]

Personally I’m neutral on the TB - but at this point it seems like it’s not going to catch on. By now they should have rolled it out across the MacBook/Air/Magic Keyboard if they really were serious about it becoming a Mac standard input option.

I think once they figure out further extending battery life for the MacBook Air is when the Touch Bar will be added. You there Intel? be careful Apple is soon to show you the back door haha. But seriously, they should make it an option to have or not have the Touch Bar. The magic keyboard throw it in the trash.

 

[Nugget]

The price difference between the two processors is only $15

The only pricing I see on the pages you linked is the "release price." Are you suggesting that the 7360U was still selling for its launch (January 2017) pricing sixteen months later in April 2018 when the 8259U was launched? Additionally, both the chips you linked were released after fall 2016 when the nTB/TB 13" pricing was established.

 

[mdnz]

The only pricing I see on the pages you linked is the "release price." Are you suggesting that the 7360U was still selling for its launch (January 2017) pricing sixteen months later in April 2018 when the 8259U was launched?

Because Apple didn't drop prices at all, for this comparison I'm using both their release date prices. Apple of course can get them for cheaper, but they don't bring this cheaper price to the consumer.

 

[SDColorado]

The price difference between the two processors is only $15.

nTB CPU: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i5/i5-7360u
TB CPU: https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i5/i5-8259u

So it's $285 for a touch bar, 2 extra ports and a display which changes color depending on the enviroment. I'd say the TB is pretty near $200 (although probably slightly less than that).

I would say regardless of math you are talking retail for what Apple charges the user for the Touch Bar. What it cost Apple to actually add it? I would say pennies on the dollar.

 

[afir93]

They actually made it a bit worse. On Sierra volume and brightness dials went away by themselves after a while. So you could do the setting and get back to what you were doing. In Mojave it stays put, so you actually have to press "X" to go back to basic TouchBar.

Not sure if you're aware, but you can actually press and hold on the brightness/volume buttons and then drag them to where you want in one single touch (as opposed to touching once, and then dragging the slider separately). In that case they'll still go away automatically afterwards. I rarely ever do the long version of tapping once and then dragging (didn't even notice they changed its behavior until you just pointed it out).

Also, you don't specifically need to hit the X to close out of it. You can tap any of the black background to the left and right of the slider. Switching apps will also close it.

 

[537635]

I was aware of press and slide. I wasn't aware that it goes away if you do it that way. I guess I was using it wrong part of the time and didn't register the difference. Thanks!!

 

[unglued]

So what's the consensus, Touch Bar not a gimmick or everyone agree to disagree? Either it lives on and improves or R.I.P.

 

[SDColorado]

So what's the consensus, Touch Bar not a gimmick or everyone agree to disagree? Either it lives on and improves or R.I.P.

I would say it is about where it was in 2016. Some love it, some hate it, some don't care, Apple seems apathetic toward it. Time will tell.

 

[afir93]

So what's the consensus, Touch Bar not a gimmick or everyone agree to disagree? Either it lives on and improves or R.I.P.

TL;DR of this thread: there is no consensus 😀 it's pretty much an agree-to-disagree topic.

Some people think it's a useless gimmick that should go away. Others have found use cases in it and as a consequence find it useful. Some are fine either way and don't strictly prefer TB over function keys or vice versa. Neither side can convince the other; those who hate it have usually already made up their mind that they hate it and why they hate it, those who have found practical applications of it for themselves obviously have very practical reasons to like it because it benefits them in some way. There is no objective, universal answer here.

 

[unglued]

Sounds like a division between old school machine language crowd getting work done I hate the Touch Bar vs Starbucks I gotta have my latte and Touch Bar so I can play because I can't go outside in the rain.

 

[Eamoex]

Sounds like a division between old school machine language crowd getting work done I hate the Touch Bar vs Starbucks I gotta have my latte and Touch Bar so I can play because I can't go outside in the rain.

That cracked me up Sir! I think if the touchbar gets something done, it is definitely not the the work. My opinion is that it will be remembered as an oddity. I have seen and used it, and although I think it is pretty well built, it's still a transitional technological object which has no future in this form. Like hybrid cars. Integrating both power sources in the same vehicle sounds like a bad idea, technically -- but it sells cars.

 

[537635]

Sounds like a division between old school machine language crowd getting work done I hate the Touch Bar vs Starbucks I gotta have my latte and Touch Bar so I can play because I can't go outside in the rain.

How to sum up an entire topic in one sentence. Well done. :-D

A good tell if something Apple has done is really good is how other companies copy it. Everybody copied iPhone and its interface. Everybody moved from DVDs to USB-A. Everybody is copying the notch. Everybody moved to high-res screens. Everybody is moving to USB-C.

Nobody (almost) is putting an OLED bar instead of physical keys.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Nobody (almost) is putting an OLED bar instead of physical keys.

The others realized you can just make the entire PC a touchscreen and "voila!"...

All the benefits of the TouchBar + all the benefits of a full blown touch screen combined with normal keyboard and trackpad below.

 

[vaugha]

How to sum up an entire topic in one sentence. Well done. :-D

A good tell if something Apple has done is really good is how other companies copy it. Everybody copied iPhone and its interface. Everybody moved from DVDs to USB-A. Everybody is copying the notch. Everybody moved to high-res screens. Everybody is moving to USB-C.

Nobody (almost) is putting an OLED bar instead of physical keys.

This is very well put. I agree.

 

[mrex]

That just seems to me to be an admission that you must look at third-party developers such as Better Touch Tool to make it anything more than a gimmick? In the state that Apple released it, it remains so?

and vlc for atv, so that atv isnt just a cumbersome gimmick device in our living rooms because apple cant do a native apps that plays everything? or procreate/notability/etc made an app for ipad pro that you can use the apple pencil better? or whatsapp made a crossplatform messaging app for iphone that you dont need to hang with sms/imessage the rest of your life? or gimp made a software for macos? or apple made homekit app, but you need 3rd party manufacturers to take benefit of the app, and so on...

so all of them made you to realize that you need 3rd party developers/manufacturers to make your apple devices work better?

and for sure, i didnt find any specific defaults button layout that apple provided for touchbar that i could use all the time. BTT is an app that gave all i needed. does it make touchbar as a gimmick? no it doesnt. did i use function keys when there were only physical function keys on the top area of the keyboard - hardly ever...

 

[poorcody]

Sounds like a division between old school machine language crowd getting work done I hate the Touch Bar vs Starbucks I gotta have my latte and Touch Bar so I can play because I can't go outside in the rain.

I actually think it's a division between people who use BetterTouchTool and those that don't. Which, to me, is the exact reverse of your stereotypes. 🙂

 

[Fishrrman]

The question:
"2 years in, is the TouchBar still a gimmick?"

The answer:
The touchbar was always "a gimmick".

 

[537635]

I actually think it's a division between people who use BetterTouchTool and those that don't. Which, to me, is the exact reverse of your stereotypes. 🙂

I use BTT extensively. Can't find a usable scenario for TouchBar and I've had it since launch.

 

[Jaekae]

i dont think it needed but also think its not worse than fn keys, so i rather have it even dont use ut much. Developers dont do much for it.. think adobe put it in photoshop only and the nskipped. to add on any other of their stuff..

 

[turbineseaplane]

i dont think it needed but also think its not worse than fn keys, so i rather have it even dont use ut much. Developers dont do much for it.. think adobe put it in photoshop only and the nskipped. to add on any other of their stuff..

Are you typing on a butterfly keyboard?

 

[jerryk]

Sounds like a division between old school machine language crowd getting work done I hate the Touch Bar vs Starbucks I gotta have my latte and Touch Bar so I can play because I can't go outside in the rain.

Not at all. I have a Master in computer science, do assembler, c++, python and Machine learning. I find the Touchbar useful especially in some code editors, and other programs I use like Lightroom.

And in general I like having one control to increase and decrease screen brightness or volume rather than separate physical buttons.

 

[afir93]

Sounds like a division between old school machine language crowd getting work done I hate the Touch Bar vs Starbucks I gotta have my latte and Touch Bar so I can play because I can't go outside in the rain.

That's a very selective viewpoint and only one side of the coin. There are also many people who found excellent productivity applications for the Touch Bar and have integrated it into their workflows, and also more "casual" users that still don't find anything useful in the Touch Bar.

Ironically, the best applications for the Touch Bar that I've personally found for myself are in productivity-focused apps. Pixelmator (Pro) and the Affinity suite for example make excellent use of the Touch Bar, and even some very creative interfaces for it that I wish more developers (or even Apple) would implement for their apps (for example putting the recently-opened files on the TB for the startup window, or putting the Undo/Redo-states into an interactive TB-timeline along with miniatures that you can scroll through). Apple's use of the TB in Final Cut Pro X is also excellent. The TB interfaces of the iWork apps and of MS Office are also both solid and fairly extensive, though they are more shortcut-focused there and not so much on more visual interfaces.

Point being: there are definitely apps out there that make excellent use of the TB, particularly also in the productivity-category. Some other people above have already mentioned the potential of BetterTouchTool or what the TB can do in coding environments. So trying to portray this as a "productivity user" vs "'dumb' Starbucks user" debate seems a little misleading.

 

[unglued]

There are also many people who found excellent productivity applications for the Touch Bar and have integrated it into their workflows, and also more "casual" users that still don't find anything useful in the Touch Bar.

Absolutely, gimmick or no gimmick the Touch Bar is there to use however anyone chooses. Whether it helps them with coding or sending cartoons and smileys to friends while having pumpkin spice lattes at Starbucks.