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20,000 computer have been infected?

ppc750fx said:
That logic doesn't work at all. What if I only need a feature once, so I use a trial? If I hadn't used the trial, I would have had to pay for the software. Therefore I'm depriving the designer of money. By your logic, that's theft.
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No, thats not the same thing. A trial version is akin to advertising. The developer gives you free access for a time, or with limited options.... a "taste", if you will..... in the hopes that the trial will result in a new customer. The developer knows that many who try will not buy, but enough will that the trial version makes economic sense. It's not theft if you're in a grocery store and they offer you a sample of some food they're preparing, in hopes that you buy some of it. Trial versions are the same thing.
What about if I use a piece of software on a public terminal, such as in a library? What if I make that use a regular practice so that I don't have to buy a copy? Is that theft? By your logic, it is.
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Again, you use faulty logic. The library paid for a copy of the software, so the developer got paid.
 
The most popular programs that people buy are the most pirated ones as well. I doubt even half the people who pirated an application would go out and buy it if there was no such thing as torrents or any way to pirate something.
 
ggjstudios said:
So where exactly do you see that, as an intelligent Mac user, I have any exposure to security threats?
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Nowhere.

But - I can see people reading these threads, and coming away with the impression that the only way to get a trojan on OS X is to download pirated software, and they then go off and put their admin password in to any dialogue box that comes up on their Mac, because it must be safe, because you can only get trojans from pirate software (the internet told me so.)
 
Jethryn Freyman said:
Nowhere.

But - I can see people reading these threads, and coming away with the impression that the only way to get a trojan on OS X is to download pirated software, and they then go off and put their admin password in to any dialogue box that comes up on their Mac, because it must be safe, because you can only get trojans from pirate software (the internet told me so.)
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You could be right, but I'd be surprised if anyone derives from this thread that pirated software is the ONLY source of trojans. The point is, the only way you can get a trojan on a Mac is to install software, which involves entering your admin password. So if a user is careful what they install and where they get it, there's no problem. The only way a user on Mac OS X can get a virus is if someone writes one and releases it into the wild, which hasn't happened yet. :)
 
ggjstudios said:
While according to the Supreme Court, piracy isn't technically the same as theft, piracy is still illegal and morally wrong. To argue otherwise, using the "piracy isn't theft" argument is splitting hairs. Piracy is wrong. You'd agree if you were the software developer losing millions to bootleggers.
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"loosing millions to bootleggers". Show me quantitative data supporting your claim. The reason this crap isn't published officially is they don't want you to know how LITTLE they are actually loosing.
 
Jethryn Freyman said:
Nowhere.

But - I can see people reading these threads, and coming away with the impression that the only way to get a trojan on OS X is to download pirated software, and they then go off and put their admin password in to any dialogue box that comes up on their Mac, because it must be safe, because you can only get trojans from pirate software (the internet told me so.)
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I wouldn't say nowhere. Compusec takes various forms....step one is physical security. What if someone has access to your system or can see your screen? Thats a security threat right there. I know what I'm talking about (DoD Information Assurance Manager).
 
Why piracy IS theft

When you copy a program that you don't own you will never buy that program.
That deprives the owner of the program the money they would have made if you had bought the program. Thus it is theft and wrong.

Look at it this way... lets say Apple's software engineers worked on iWork09 and the cost for them to design and build that program was 5 million dollars. The first person to buy the program puts it on a torrent and everyone else on the planet who would have bought a legal copy graps the torrent for free.

Now if the above were to happen for all programs... the business of writing software would quickly die.
 
Tallest Skil said:
If you wouldn't have bought it, you don't deserve it. And why would you want it if you wouldn't have bought it?
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Because I don't have 1000 bucks in the bank to spend on software, I don't "deserve" CS4?

The reason Photoshop is so well known as a brand (and used as a verb) is because of how prolific it is. It wouldn't be all over the place had people not been able to pirate it.

If I hadn't been able to pirate a bunch of high end audio software, I'd have absolutely no idea what stuff I want to buy. Thanks to piracy, Sibelius will be getting my money and not Finale. Running demos isn't enough to tell me if I actually prefer the software or not.

xlii said:
When you copy a program that you don't own you will never buy that program.
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Unbelievable.

I don't know about you, but as a student, I don't have a lot of money. When Microsoft offered their entire $800 Windows Office suite for $50 to students, I immediately bought it, even though I already had it pirated. That is the attitude companies should adopt to selling academic software. They should be glad we want to use their software and are enthusiastic about it, since when we go into the workplace, we'll be buying it and using it professionally.

A studio running pirated software on a day to day basis with professional clients? Absolutely unacceptable. On the other hand, a student learning software and using it to perform their trade until they're actually in the workplace? Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Obviously, pirating is a very grey area, and in some cases, the pirate is entirely in the wrong. However, making blanket statements about piracy being ENTIRELY BAD and making it seem like it's ripping food out of the developers mouths 100% of the time is ignoring some of the facts.
 
econoline06 said:
I wouldn't say nowhere. Compusec takes various forms....step one is physical security. What if someone has access to your system or can see your screen? Thats a security threat right there. I know what I'm talking about (DoD Information Assurance Manager).
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If somebody else has physical access to their computer, anything is possible. No admin password needed.
 
Teej guy said:
Because I don't have 1000 bucks in the bank to spend on software, I don't "deserve" CS4?

The reason Photoshop is so well known as a brand (and used as a verb) is because of how prolific it is. It wouldn't be all over the place had people not been able to pirate it.

If I hadn't been able to pirate a bunch of high end audio software, I'd have absolutely no idea what stuff I want to buy. Thanks to piracy, Sibelius will be getting my money and not Finale. Running demos isn't enough to tell me if I actually prefer the software or not.
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My apologies, "deserve" was the wrong word to choose. That's like saying "deserve" in that context in reference to a supercar or something of that nature.

Not "don't deserve", but rather, if you can't afford it, you shouldn't GET it.

If you want to get into an even MORE gray area, let's say that someone pirates CS4 (minus trojan... :rolleyes:), makes money with it from the work that they do, and then uses that money to BUY CS4.

Is THAT okay? Is THAT right?

I would like to think so, since they are, in fact, actually going to go buy the thing, but the law doesn't seem to agree, so I won't comment further.
 
The trojan was located in the crack for CS4.

With some programs (I'll use games as an example), many legitimate users will buy a game, find that they need the DVD in the drive to run it (anti piracy measure only affecting legitimate users), and then download the "No DVD" crack so they can launch the game without a DVD.

Another example is Vista. I've known people who have bought it, then used a pirate copy that does not need to be activated, saving them (as legitimate users) from trouble and inconvenience (which would not affect the real pirates)

My point? Not all people who download a software crack or pirate software from a torrent site are criminals and pirates. I'm concerned for the legitimate downloaders who have no way to screen these cracks and such for trojans, short of searching through the installer packages themselves. Most users do not know how to do this.
 
Fact is right now at least 20,000 people are pirating iLife '09 by my count. Apple certainly isn't going out of business. Who cares?
 
To answer an above objection, no, you do NOT deserve CS4 if you don't have a $1,000 in the bank to pay for it. And no, it is NOT a gray area, either. You can't "deserve" something without first earning the right. Look up "deserve" in your OS X dictionary:

deserve: do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment)
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You darn sure don't "deserve" a piece of software just because you woke up this morning.

In normal (non-socialized) societies, money has a very significant moral meaning--it serves as proof that you served a fellow human being.

Let's say I go see Sam the butcher. I tell Sam I want a pack of steak. When Sam says, "That will be $50," he is essentially saying, "Prove you deserve these steaks." I pull out a $50 bill. I am saying, "Sam, this $50 bill proves that I served my fellow man." That could have been by working retail, mowing grass, driving a truck, or cleaning toilets at Starbucks.

Sam then goes to dinner with his wife. The waiter says, "Prove to me that you deserve this dinner." Sam breaks out that $50, which is proof that he served his fellow man, in this case, by preparing steak for me to enjoy.

I know this probably doesn't sit well with folks on this board, but the truth is, money is the proof that you deserve a product. If you don't have the money for something, you don't deserve it. We can quibble over whether piracy is theft (I agree with those who think the so-called "problems" with piracy are blown way out of proportion, because they are mostly non-injurious transactions). But because the software developers aren't getting hurt doesn't make piracy right. It is still the taking of something you don't deserve and have no legal right to.
 
Software costs $0 to reproduce. Adobe charges too much for CS4. Who are you to tell me what I deserve and don't deserve? I'll download it either way.

Am I a bad person? No.
Did Adobe lose any money? Nope.
Will any of this bickering stop me from pirating things? Nope.
Would I ever shop lift in a brick and mortar store? Nope.
 
jive turkey said:
I know this probably doesn't sit well with folks on this board, but the truth is, money is the proof that you deserve a product. If you don't have the money for something, you don't deserve it.
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This is simply not the case. I know plenty of people with lots of money who don't deserve it or the things they buy with it, either bad people, or people who got money through questionable means.

Do the people who knew full well that they were ****ing up the global economy deserve the millions of dollars they have? What about their private jets they're still flying around in?

In years and years gone by, your example held weight. However, in this day and age, money is simply proof you were in the right place at the right time, not proof that you deserve more consumer goods than the next guy.
 
econoline06 said:
"loosing millions to bootleggers". Show me quantitative data supporting your claim. The reason this crap isn't published officially is they don't want you to know how LITTLE they are actually loosing.
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Well, let's start with a few facts. From this article we find:
About 20,000 people have so far downloaded the suspect iWork 09 software, while more than 5,000 downloaded the pirated Photoshop, estimates security provider Intego Inc. of Austin, Texas.
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Well, let's do a little math, for the slow-learners, shall we?
20,000 * $79 = $1,580,0000 in lost iWork revenue​
5,000 * $699.95 = $3,499,750 in lost Photoshop revenue​
That's $5,079,750 in lost revenue, and that's just TWO applications. That's nothing, compared to the hundreds of apps that get pirated millons of times each year. Someone would have to be monumentally ignorant or naive not to understand this is costing software companies millions in lost revenue, even if you apply arguments that some of those wouldn't have bought the software at any price. It's not just the cost of reproduction, it's the loss of potential revenue. Some of the people in this thread are in dire need of a "Business Economics For Dummies" book, written at the 3rd grade level! :rolleyes:
 
ggjstudios said:
Well, let's start with a few facts. From this article we find:

Well, let's do a little math, for the slow-learners, shall we?
20,000 * $79 = $1,580,0000 in lost iWork revenue​
5,000 * $699.95 = $3,499,750 in lost Photoshop revenue​
That's $5,079,750 in lost revenue, and that's just TWO applications. That's nothing, compared to the hundreds of apps that get pirated millons of times each year.
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There's the example of my purchase of Office 2007 (further up the thread) which I had pirated before I bought it.

Every single pirated copy of a piece of software does not equals lost profit, and my case is proof. I also can't understand why the factor of not having enough money to purchase a certain product doesn't mean anything. It seems fairly straight-forward that a $3000+ software package pirated by someone with barely any expendable income does not impact a company's bottom line.
 
A lot of times, companies WANT you to pirate their stuff. If Adobe has thousands of people who have learned to do their graphic work on their program in their free time, when said pirate gets a job where he needs to do graphic work, he will tell his employer he only knows PhotoShop, forcing the employer to buy a license for the company. Same with Maya, etc. That is also why the high price tag. The pirating is built into the price!
 
Just because it has been downloaded 20000 doesn't mean that 20000 sales have been lost. Most of those people would never bother to get the software if they couldn't pirate it (they don't need it, but want it just in case. Or maybe they want to try it out and see what it does.)
 
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