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Although companies could just protect their software against piracy better? Look how many illegal Photoshop users there are. Surely Adobe has looked into making activating Photoshop more secure?

Making an "pirate-proof" application cannot be done. Why? Because DRM doesn't work. It simply doesn't work. As long as you are giving someone both the protected material and the key to access it, your content is at risk.

The most you can hope for is to buy yourself some time before it's cracked. But frankly, given how big the zero-day and -1-day scenes are, it's pretty damn unlikely that adding DRM is going to have any significant effect on the amount of time it takes before your application can be cracked and distributed.

So could Adobe look into making Photoshop more secure? Sure. But no matter how much they spend on it, no matter how many different locks they put on it, the crackers will always end up with a way to use it without authorization.
 
oh yeh? cubase 5 is already out and even version 4 hasnt even been cracked. :)
 
The pirate isn't stealing the apple when the salesman isn't looking. He's given the stolen apple from the thief knowing that it's stolen.

Although companies could just protect their software against piracy better? Look how many illegal Photoshop users there are. Surely Adobe has looked into making activating Photoshop more secure?

Adobe is almost certainly not interested in putting more piracy protection on PhotoShop. The software it does want to lock down is stuff like Elements.

Basically, your typical PS pirates are one of two types: the first is students (either "officially" enrolled students or people who are trying to teach themselves the software) and the second is hobbyists who aren't going to shell out $500+ for the software no matter what.

If the first case, Adobe actually makes money on those pirates. They're not loosing much/anything because only a small number of the students would have actually paid had they had to, and they would have bought much cheaper student copies. After they graduate, though, they will either get a job with a company who buy them a license, or they will go "pro" and buy a copy after a couple of paying jobs.

If these students had not had relatively easy access to a pirated copy there's a good chance they would turn to another product - some competitor that is easy to pirate or worse (for Adobe) an open source product like GIMP. If that happens they've now lost out on future sales to that person forever. You get to your new office and they have a CS2 seat for you. You know GIMP though, so you just download a copy and get on with your work. The office updates to CS3 and you mention you don't need it, so your boss can save $1000. This is what Adobe is afraid of. This holds true if you become a freelancer - you use GIMP in school so you don't ever have the need to buy a legal, or updated, copy of PhotoShop... ever.

In the latter case (the hobbyist who will never buy the product because the don't NEED it) there's no lost sale, hence no lost revenue, meaning every dime spent on copy protection is a loss. But, as I mentioned, packages like Elements ($50-100, targeted at a large user base of non-pro users) do benefit from copy protection, so I can see where they'd want to lock that down as much as reasonable. In fact, making PhotoShop easy to pirate and locking Elements down would probably be a good thing for sales. You get all the above benefits of piracy, and when a user who pirates PhotoShop, decides he likes it, but it does more than he needs could be pushed towards Elements.

This is pretty common with software used in business, but iLife and iWork don't fit these models, so there's other factors to consider there. I think the Box Set concept is the way to go, but the pricing is a little high (because of the unnecessary inclusion of OS X, which is updated only half as often as the other two packages). They should start including iWork with new Mac purchases like they do iLife (and OS X, obviously) and then give you free updates licensed to that machine for as long as it is covered by AppleCare (so free updates for a year free, and an added incentive to buy the extended AppleCare package).
 
If these students had not had relatively easy access to a pirated copy there's a good chance they would turn to another product - some competitor that is easy to pirate or worse (for Adobe) an open source product like GIMP. If that happens they've now lost out on future sales to that person forever. You get to your new office and they have a CS2 seat for you. You know GIMP though, so you just download a copy and get on with your work. The office updates to CS3 and you mention you don't need it, so your boss can save $1000. This is what Adobe is afraid of. This holds true if you become a freelancer - you use GIMP in school so you don't ever have the need to buy a legal, or updated, copy of PhotoShop... ever.

Sorry, but no. Gimp != photoshop. Photoshop != gimp. Paint shop pro != Photoshop != Gimp . Never has, never will. Gimp is great for certian uses, especially having editing capability on the *nix platform, but it is not a photoshop replacement. I'm not saying which one is the more powerful app (Which we know what that is), but I doubt Gimp is being used by your favorite graphic design studios, print houses, architectual firms and production houses.
The guy's over at gimp even understand this and have released 'gimpshop' for said consumption, but it isn't photoshop. Also, gimp has a small number of crafty developers behind it vs. the six or seven floors of developers working on photoshop on a daily basis.
Gimp doesn't have intergration with bridge or any other collaboration tools that workgroups would find useful as in the CS suite.
 
Sorry, but no. Gimp != photoshop. Photoshop != gimp. Paint shop pro != Photoshop != Gimp . Never has, never will. Gimp is great for certian uses, especially having editing capability on the *nix platform, but it is not a photoshop replacement. I'm not saying which one is the more powerful app (Which we know what that is), but I doubt Gimp is being used by your favorite graphic design studios, print houses, architectual firms and production houses.
The guy's over at gimp even understand this and have released 'gimpshop' for said consumption, but it isn't photoshop. Also, gimp has a small number of crafty developers behind it vs. the six or seven floors of developers working on photoshop on a daily basis.
Gimp doesn't have intergration with bridge or any other collaboration tools that workgroups would find useful as in the CS suite.

Eh, it depends on what you are doing. GIMPShop just moves menus around for people familiar with PS. If you are doing print work, GIMP could be an issue as (last I remember at least) had issues with CMYK color space. If you are doing, as an example, web design there's nothing at all stopping you from using GIMP for 100% of the graphic design elements of your work.

I'm not trying to say that GIMP is a perfect one to one replacement for PS. Rather, if you were learning a graphic editor for some purpose and tried GIMP because it was free and it suited your purposes you will almost certainly never need to buy PS. There's people/tasks/jobs where GIMP is unsuitable, but there's plenty where it will work just fine. (I'm a great example. I used GIMP to do some simple things a long time ago, and use it now for basic graphic work on web design/development projects. I'm primarily a developer, but I do occasional graphic work/template customization/etc freelance. I've tried PS and I hate it, compared to GIMP simply because it's what I know).

If the CURRENT build of GIMP (or PS for that matter) does what you want it to, the number of developers working on it means NOTHING. Future potential does not change current usability.

As for "collaboration tools", well, what some groups might "find useful" is pretty varied, and there's lots of other options for people to share files and do version control on all kinds of data, not just PS files, so it's not a complete game breaker. At this point, though, you're looking at people making decisions for large workshops, not so much individual designer preference. I'm sure that happens in the big corporate world, but those licenses are going to be bought whether you want them or not, so it has little impact on the argument of piracy being good for sales of pro-grade applications.
 
Is anybody here a LAWYER or an ECONOMIST?

No? Then please stick to what you know.

I clicked on this hoping to read about something related to the topic, and instead I see people throwing out legal definitions and teaching economics like they actually know what they're talking about.

I'm not a lawyer, but I did major in econ, and I can tell you that most of you have no idea what you're talking about. If you're interested in educating yourself, research the following terms:

1) marginal cost,
2) consumer surplus,
3) price discrimination

This should explain in its entirety why software is priced the way it is, why companies have "student editions" and so forth... and why piracy doesn't always hurt a companies bottom line.

I won't comment on the legal questions raised here, since I'm going to follow my own advice and stick to what I know.
 
This should explain in its entirety why software is priced the way it is, why companies have "student editions" and so forth... and why piracy doesn't always hurt a companies bottom line.

At last. Someone gets it. If only more businesses understood this we might see some sanity come to the whole DRM/protection debacle...
 
I'm not a lawyer, but I did major in econ, and I can tell you that most of you have no idea what you're talking about. If you're interested in educating yourself, research the following terms:

1) marginal cost,
2) consumer surplus,
3) price discrimination

This should explain in its entirety why software is priced the way it is, why companies have "student editions" and so forth... and why piracy doesn't always hurt a companies bottom line.

Thank you.
 
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