20,000 computer have been infected?

[GGJstudios]

Every single pirated copy of a piece of software does not equals lost profit.

Just because it has been downloaded 20000 doesn't mean that 20000 sales have been lost.

If you take time to read my post:

...Someone would have to be monumentally ignorant or naive not to understand this is costing software companies millions in lost revenue, even if you apply arguments that some of those wouldn't have bought the software at any price.

The younger generations seem to be warped into this "I'm entitled to anything I want, when I want it" mentality. "Back in the day" when honesty, moral integrity, honor and a sense of fair play was more commonplace, if someone couldn't afford something, THEY DIDN'T GET IT! They learned the value of working and saving and they learned to appreciate things when they were finally able to afford them.

Just because something costs more than you think it should (and who are YOU to decide how software should be priced, unless you wrote it!), doesn't give you the right to pirate it. By that logic, "That Ferrari costs too much, so I'll just steal it! After all, Ferrari should sell their cars for $75 each to students, just because we're wet behind the ears, don't have a CLUE how the world works, have no discipline and no self-respect or respect for anyone else..... and we'll cry to mommy if we don't get our way!" Grow up, already!

 

[EgbertAttrick]

"That Ferrari costs too much, so I'll just steal it! After all, Ferrari should sell their cars for $75 each to students, just because we're wet behind the ears, don't have a CLUE how the world works, have no discipline and no self-respect or respect for anyone else..... and we'll cry to mommy if we don't get our way!

Wow. Someone really hates the young whipper-snappers! It sounds to me that you're more upset at youth in general than in pirating. Please calm yourself before I have to go and cry for my mommy!

 

[Jethryn Freyman]

I was just pointing out. I don't think that many professional publishing companies are using pirate copies of Adobe CS4.

Most of those 20000 people are teenage girls who want to edit their photos for myspace (i.e. people who don't use Photoshop for a living.)

 

[GGJstudios]

Wow. Someone really hates the young whipper-snappers! It sounds to me that you're more upset at youth in general than in pirating. Please calm yourself before I have to go and cry for my mommy!

No, I don't hate anyone and I'm not upset at youth in general, just repulsed by the ones who think they're entitled to get everything they want without earning it, and who have such a lack of integrity that they willingly admit to ripping off others and have no qualms about it. There are people of all ages like that, but there appears to be a higher concentration in the younger generations, as evidenced by much of the naiveté and ignorance expressed in some of these threads.

 

[Macmel]

Thanks for turning yet another thread into the intelligent people vs. the self-justifying people.

Tell me what piracy is, then, if not theft, and why people go to jail for doing so?

Exactly because is not theft, people don't go to jail. There's exactly the same discussion about the same trojan in another thread (see Macrumors page one).

 

[Macmel]

No, I don't hate anyone and I'm not upset at youth in general, just repulsed by the ones who think they're entitled to get everything they want without earning it, and who have such a lack of integrity that they willingly admit to ripping off others and have no qualms about it. There are people of all ages like that, but there appears to be a higher concentration in the younger generations, as evidenced by much of the naiveté and ignorance expressed in some of these threads.

Exactly!!. I upset at record/movie companies who think they can charge 20 bucks for something that actually costs 2 (where's the earning there?) and put anticopy systems although you're allowed to make a copy of things you have purchased... Ohhh! We might not be talking about the same.
Again, go to the thread about exactly this topic in page 1 and you'll discover that is not so easy as black and white as you want to see it.

 

[chaosbunny]

"Back in the day" when honesty, moral integrity, honor and a sense of fair play was more commonplace, if someone couldn't afford something, THEY DIDN'T GET IT!

Sure, "back in the day" everything was better.

 

[GGJstudios]

Sure, "back in the day" everything was better.

.... including television programming, which didn't include such absurd displays of stupidity like "The Simpsons"!

 

[Ploki]

ggjstudios: simpsons are okay.
"back in the day" was a different age.
but i bet all of you stole apples (from the tree) that made the farmer lost millions in revenue.

No, I just made that point. If they wouldn't have bought it, they don't deserve it. They are making money off of the software that they steal.

THAT. is what is wrong.

so, what if you dont make money off that software

besides, if they intended the photoshop not to be stolen they would have made it "iLok". but its not, why? because they know that if they leave it to be able to pirate it, everybody will use it. and if everybody uses it, more will buy it, because there will be no alternative.
its same with logic pro... 1st the price is almost free. 2nd it has basically no protection (less than version7 (?!)). but what now. you buy a mac to use it. its easier for people to justify money for something they can hold...

 

[ma2ha3]

Just because it has been downloaded 20000 doesn't mean that 20000 sales have been lost. Most of those people would never bother to get the software if they couldn't pirate it (they don't need it, but want it just in case. Or maybe they want to try it out and see what it does.)

yeah, damn right. Most program will not be bought if they have to pay full fee. Alternative will have to be bought. something small/useful and cheap. too bad, these small companies which produce these cheap software cannot grow.

 

[teleromeo]

No, I just made that point. If they wouldn't have bought it, they don't deserve it. They are making money off of the software that they steal.

THAT. is what is wrong.

Completely right. If you copy software and use it you steal the work of someone that pays for the tools he uses to earn his money.

Over here evening schools are filled with people that are learning to use programs they never will pay for when they use it to design christmas cards, websites, ...

 

[Tallest Skil]

Praise the lord.

As opposed to what, actually confronting the deeper manifestations of sofware piracy law?

Forgive me for coming up with a segment of the topic on which you have no knowledge. I'd rather discuss this than throw it out as something that just doesn't happen; I just don't know enough about that position to have said anything that I could back up.

 

[0098386]

When you copy a program that you don't own you will never buy that program.

Cool those jets hotshot.
I have an EyeTV and record (and keep) most of the shows I like, if I miss an episode I won't hesitate to get the torrent, or if it's an old show again I won't mind getting the torrent.

However what some "pirates" say is true. Shivver me timbers! No!
When they say if they like if they'll buy it that can certainly be true. 5 Years back we used to be with some DVD rental company and copied a few TV series. However since graduating, getting a job and all that I've rebought my fave shows and binned the rest.

I don't pirate software or games or anything like that even though for a time digital downloads were extremely important for me (thanks Steam!). But I'm glad tech from pirates is now helping some of the things I use most online (Steam, iPlayer) and is helping distribute a free game I made years ago.

 

[Macmel]

Just to add to the discussion, it has been recently published a scientific study in Belgium (90% of the population is connected to the internet and 30% actually are file sharers) stating that actually P2P is good for culture and not bad. It is based in the following conclusions:

1) File sharing contributes to the fast spreading of the contents, which in itself is good to cultural growth.

2) Files downloaded, in their vast majority, would not have been purchased anyway so the loss in revenue for companies is much more reduced than they claim it to be.

3) Content creators that normally would not be strongly supported by companies only thinking about money, have the oportunity of becoming known because people can get their work for free. This opens the possibility of other forms of revenue: concerts, shows, purchases of further contents, etc. Most companies say that if this continues like this it would be the end of the culture because they won't be able to support starting creators if they lose the revenue coming from the big ones: the truth is, they only support people which they know will make money for them, regardless of their cultural component. What's American Idol if not a casting for a good selling singer which you know it's gonna be a success because millions of americans told you so?.

4) Downloaders of music and DVDs in average buy as much music and DVDs in stores as people who never download.

5) Downloaders of video games in average buy MORE games than non-downloaders.

Just think about it...

 

[mikes63737]

Anyone think that maybe Apple attached the trojan and uploaded it? To punish piraters?

 

[MacBoobsPro]

Software costs $0 to reproduce.

Care to explain?

Every Software Engineer I know demands payment for any work they do.

 

[airmac]

piracy is wrong, period

I cant believe some really ignorant and arogant replies. Of course piracy is wrong, or theft or whatever you wanna call it. Some people are really pushing here...

So, a murder is also O.K. with a really, really good lawyer and a sh*t load of cash on your hands?

I could understand that some people just download everything and doesnt pay for anything...but...to come here and say that it is somehow legal is ... well ... out of my reach.

...

 

[Teej guy]

No, I don't hate anyone and I'm not upset at youth in general, just repulsed by the ones who think they're entitled to get everything they want without earning it, and who have such a lack of integrity that they willingly admit to ripping off others and have no qualms about it.

I'm sorry that I want to arrive in the workplace having had countless hours working with professional grade software. You don't have a choice these days. The fact that pirating turns into hard earned dollars being spent was also ignored.

 

[Ploki]

So, a murder is also O.K. with a really, really good lawyer and a sh*t load of cash on your hands?

no, murder is okay if you are the government of texas. .. ?
sorry. i had to.

comparing a ferrari and a piece of software is stupid.

i cant believe half of you are yacking about pirated software. do you know how many times do you guys listen to music without rights? that is also pirating. so every single one of you who is against pirated software doesnt have ANY illegal copy of a movie or a single illegal copy of music? not a single mp3, not a single divx?

 

[airmac]

no, murder is okay if you are the government of texas. .. ?
sorry. i had to.

comparing a ferrari and a piece of software is stupid.

i cant believe half of you are yacking about pirated software. do you know how many times do you guys listen to music without rights? that is also pirating. so every single one of you who is against pirated software doesnt have ANY illegal copy of a movie or a single illegal copy of music? not a single mp3, not a single divx?

You dont get it. What is stupid is saying here piracy is not wrong and all that endless argumuments about it. I said my piece here.

...

 

[dejo]

All those claiming that legally piracy is not theft may want to look up the legal definition of piracy. It has nothing to do with IP and everything to do, still, with the high seas.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

comparing a ferrari and a piece of software is stupid.

I agree, just like those comparing the ferrari of image editing (photoshop) to the likes of iWork which doesn't even offer photo editing to any degree, or justify stealing one over another because of the cost differences.

i cant believe half of you are yacking about pirated software. do you know how many times do you guys listen to music without rights? that is also pirating. so every single one of you who is against pirated software doesnt have ANY illegal copy of a movie or a single illegal copy of music? not a single mp3, not a single divx?

Now, really, what are you talking about? On the radio? MTV? That's different. We pay the cable company, the cable co pays the broadcasters, and the broadcasters deal with the music companies on their end. Same with the radio stations. They must pay for the right to play music over the air (spelled out in the contract) but will recoup their costs in advertisement.

I'm against software piracy but i'm not here to sway arguments. I would just like the pirates to explain to me how they can justify each and every form of piracy that doesn't involve a self-deserving or self-righteous manner.

Software : Oh well..I wouldn't have bought it anyway, and it costs too much for me to buy so I deserve it!

Music : Oh well..the recording companies take most of the profit from the artists anyway so the artist will recoup costs from t-shirt sales and concerts...which I probably won't attend unless I can download some tickets too.

Movies : Oh well..it only costs 7 dollars to see a movie so if I download it no one will be affected because its just a few measily bucks, but it costs too much for me to buy so I deserve it!

Its slowly morphed from underground black market piracy to full blown robin hood i'm saving the world piracy, both of which are just silly and lame.

Guess what. I'd venture to say that Apple charges probably 20%-40% of pure profit on sales such as the macbook pro. Considering they have..what..15 billion sitting in the bank, there is no way they could have done that with tiny margins on each purchase, especially with the low (but rising) market share. Because Apple probably pays considerably less to produce a machine than what they sell it for, can someone offer me some justification to punch an apple store associate in the face and run off with a few machines? Yeah I know, theft != piracy but piracy == unauthorized use, both of which against the law.

 

[Ploki]

i agree with you mostly.
but i think on the personal computing apple gets off more with the hardware/software bundle than with the softwares.

now someone answer me, why hasnt cubase been cracked for mac yet? not a single version? its uncrackable.
whilst logic pro 8, who has the same possibility decided not to have the protection... and make it very easily crackable, actually, it doesnt need a crack at all. you get a hold of a serial and you're on the go.
now whats the consequence? nobody who starts cares about cubase on mac anymore >> biggest userbase, more potential buyers.
catch my drift?
this is not my attempt to justify piracy, its illegal, thats a fact, period. thats just my thought on how companies actually allow piracy to some extent.

 

[areusche]

Tell me what piracy is, then, if not theft, and why people go to jail for doing so?

The only software pirates that go to jail are the ones that sell mass copies of bootlegged videos/software and try to make it look original. Most of this takes place outside of the US so it doesn't get prosecuted often.

The piracy you are thinking of is downloading music. The Industry Associations send letters that threaten you with a civil lawsuit if you don't pay some amount of money. Most people pay, however there are a few that don't who may or may not end up in a civil case.

Civil suits and criminal suits are two entirely different things.

Software piracy is wrong and shouldn't happen. There are a lot of issues on both sides of the issue that often great arguments. Will I stop pirating? Probably not. I can come up with a lot of excuses as to why, but I don't wish to worsen my carpel tunnel.

 

[TJRiver]

Do software companies pay a finder's fee for turning over idiots who post on public message boards that they steal software? ......................






Just asking.



By the way, all of you legal geniuses forget that unlike say, a computer or a car, you do not "own" software outright. The owner of the software grants the purchaser a very specific license that outlines exactly what the purchaser can and can't do with the software.

All of the whining that "it only costs someone $X to make a copy of the software they sell" is also irrelevant. If I can charge a 1,000% markup on a product, I am a very successful capitalist. It's the American way kiddies. I can sell that product for what you believe to be a unreasonable price because people want it. Your belief that a product is overpriced, (be it a physical item or a software license) does not entitle you to take it without paying for it. I don't care if you want to call it piracy, stealing, theft, conversion or anything else. It's unlawful and if you have the poor luck to get caught, you can be sued in civil court and if the DA's interested, prosecuted criminally. What are your Mommies and Daddies going to say when the mean old software company gets a court order to sell their home they spent decades paying for because you think its OK to take software w/o paying for it? Any of you internet tough guys ready to make someone else pay the price for your brilliant "legal" excuses?

Turning to the recording of TV and other broadcast shows, this is also not a relevant arguement. There is a silly little Supreme Court case involving the Sony Betamax VCR (talk about old school) that says such recordings for one's own private use constitute "fair use", notwithstanding the fact that it is taking a nonpysical product that may or may not be sold (network TV or cable programs) without paying for it. Believe me, the networks and cable companies would love to see that Betamax case overturned so they could figure out a way to wrangle more profit out of their video products.

Notice, my little kids, that Apple & Adobe do not broadcast their software. Taking a software maker's license rights without paying for it, whatever your idiotic rationale, is simply not 'fair use", nor will it ever, be, no matter how many internet pundits wish it to be true.

The problem with the internet is that it fosters a belief that if it can be reduced to electronic form (be it audio, video, books or software) I am entitled to a copy for free. Before I have to go change my Depends, let me leave you all with a piece of advice: "There's no such thing as a free lunch". Anyone who tells you otherwise is just trying to sell you something.