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Sayhey said:
Whoa! How'd we get to Ichiro as a selfish, glory-seeking player? oaklandbum, step back from the rivalry and look at a player widely respected as one of the most unique offensive and defensive threats in the game. Playing for a last place team he set an incredible record; breaking one of the most revered records in the game. Many thought Sisler's record couldn't be broken. If you don't like him, ok, but let's respect his game.

I never said he was selfish. I guess people figure only selfish people are glory-seeking, but that's not really true. I also think Shilling is glory-seeking, but I'd also hardly say he's selfish - yes, risking your health to play baseball and where everyone can see your bloody sock is glory-seeking. He could have easily said, "sorry I can't play," and nobody would have thought the lesser of him. You seem to think I have something against Ichiro and that there is some sort of rivalry I have with them, but I fail to see how the Cubs and Mariners have any real rivalry. Oh I guess cause my name is "oaklandbum" you just assume I'm an A's fanatic? I do root for the A's in regards to the AL west, but they are hardly my favorite team. The only problem I have with Ichiro is that I don't think people coming from another professional league should get Rookie of the Year, but that's just my personal opinion.
 
Sorry if I seem a bit disgruntled, but the cancelled NHL season hasn't left me in very high spirits regarding pro sports. How am I supposed to keep my sanity when I can't watch the Bruins loose in the playoffs like usual? Anyway, just wanted to let you know I'm not trying to be totally negative. And if you can't tell my sports alligances are scattered throughout the country.
 
a *healthy* cubs rotation is the best in baseball. but theres no data to support this and there may never be because it has yet to happen. i believe the cubs can contend this year again for the NL central, the cardinals shouldn't run away with it like they did last year, they aren't that improved ... david eckstein is not an upgrade from edgar renteria, but i won't diss grudz, he'll his for average as always, the infield isn't as killer as it was. I'm not saying the cardinals will flop, because I dont' think they will I just don't expect the total domination, and it will take quite a bit for me to count out the stros because I did that last year ...
 
sorry, oaklandbum, I did make the assumption you were an Oakland A's fan. Now as an ever-suffering Cubs fan, I can see why you would hate every other team. :D Not to worry, we are 50 years and counting on this side of the bay. May not be in the Cubbies league yet, but we're getting there. Just remember, the Bosox showed us the pain can end.
 
Sayhey said:
As to sacrifices, if we are to condemn Ichiro for his 3 SF and 2 SH all last year, what are we to say about Damon's figures of 3 SF and 0 SH? For both of these hitters, what their team wants from them is to get on base and cause havoc there. Both are great at it, but Ichiro is better.

Where did you find this data? I've been using mlb.com for all of my data and don't see it up there (tho I did want to use it in my comparison because I thought it was MUCH higher than that (like 3 SF and 3 SH for the post season alone).

I'd like to know! Thanks,

BEN
 
Sayhey said:
sorry, oaklandbum, I did make the assumption you were an Oakland A's fan. Now as an ever-suffering Cubs fan, I can see why you would hate every other team. :D Not to worry, we are 50 years and counting on this side of the bay. May not be in the Cubbies league yet, but we're getting there. Just remember, the Bosox showed us the pain can end.

I'm being patient, I don't expect they'll pull it off this year, but the Cubs will win it in 2015... or at least "Back to the Future" says so. heh. It is great that the Red Sox finally broke their curse. It does prove that it is possible, and maybe it will inspire the Cubbies to finally get the goat off their backs.

SFs loss in 2002 was totally disheartening. I think that shows that the Giants have a curse of their own. heh. If only they had moved to LA instead of SF...
 
saabmp3 said:
Where did you find this data? I've been using mlb.com for all of my data and don't see it up there (tho I did want to use it in my comparison because I thought it was MUCH higher than that (like 3 SF and 3 SH for the post season alone).

I'd like to know! Thanks,

BEN

If you go to mlb.com and check under their "stats" link you will find a menu for "league leaders." These are still the stats from last year. There you will find Ichiro and Damon listed and can click on them to see their individual stats. You will have to also click on the link, "next stats" to see the ones in question.

edit: btw, Damon is 0 SF and 0 SH for his entire post-season career.
 
oaklandbum said:
I'm being patient, I don't expect they'll pull it off this year, but the Cubs will win it in 2015... or at least "Back to the Future" says so. heh. It is great that the Red Sox finally broke their curse. It does prove that it is possible, and maybe it will inspire the Cubbies to finally get the goat off their backs.

SFs loss in 2002 was totally disheartening. I think that shows that the Giants have a curse of their own. heh. If only they had moved to LA instead of SF...

Oh God! I'd be a Dodger fan! I understand O'Malley convinced Stoneham to take SF while he took LA. I'm sure it wasn't such a bad deal back in 1958. Anyway, what they have in numbers, we make up for in style and beauty. :p
 
Sayhey said:
Oh God! I'd be a Dodger fan! I understand O'Malley convinced Stoneham to take SF while he took LA. I'm sure it wasn't such a bad deal back in 1958. Anyway, what they have in numbers, we make up for in style and beauty. :p

Yeah, Safeco Field and Pacbell... er SBC Park are the two nicest stadiums I've been to.
 
oaklandbum said:
Yeah, Safeco Field and Pacbell... er SBC Park are the two nicest stadiums I've been to.

Safeco is got to be one of the best 'new' and 'modern' stadiums that I've been to, but, for me, I like the historic parks. Fenway just gives me a little twitch every time I see it, so much history, so many good memories. It's just impossible to get those in a new park I don't think. Wrigley field makes me feel the same way too.

I want to point out one thing, most Sox fans would pick the Cubs as their team in the NL (unless they have a specific reason to like another one). The two clubs just have the same kind of loyal fan base it seems like.

BEN

Note: All Sox comments, especially the ones about the fans are based on 'old' fans. None of this bandwagon jumping stuff. I've been watching them for about 15 years now. It would be longer, but I just didn't understand the game in kindergarden.
 
saabmp3 said:
Safeco is got to be one of the best 'new' and 'modern' stadiums that I've been to, but, for me, I like the historic parks. Fenway just gives me a little twitch every time I see it, so much history, so many good memories. It's just impossible to get those in a new park I don't think. Wrigley field makes me feel the same way too.

I want to point out one thing, most Sox fans would pick the Cubs as their team in the NL (unless they have a specific reason to like another one). The two clubs just have the same kind of loyal fan base it seems like.

BEN

Note: All Sox comments, especially the ones about the fans are based on 'old' fans. None of this bandwagon jumping stuff. I've been watching them for about 15 years now. It would be longer, but I just didn't understand the game in kindergarden.

That's true. The Sox are probably my favorite AL team. It also helps that my Dad grew up in Boston then moved to Chicago, though. I've never been to any ballparks not on the west coast, so I can't comment on what Fenway and Wrigley are like.

One interesting thing I have noticed, regarding the bandwagon fan stuff, is that Cubs and Sox fans tend to welcome new fans, that are serious about it, unlike other fans that seem bitter when their team has success and the get more fans (like in Seattle). I have a friend from Boston who said, "Anyone is welcomed to join the Red Sox Nation" (or something of the sort). So I just find that interesting.
 
oaklandbum said:
One interesting thing I have noticed, regarding the bandwagon fan stuff, is that Cubs and Sox fans tend to welcome new fans, that are serious about it, unlike other fans that seem bitter when their team has success and the get more fans (like in Seattle). I have a friend from Boston who said, "Anyone is welcomed to join the Red Sox Nation" (or something of the sort). So I just find that interesting.

After so many years at the worst park in the majors, I'm just happy the Giants have a great park to sell tickets for. It looks like over 3 million again this year, and I don't care how long they've been fans.
 
I'll take that bait.

NL West
1 - Los Angeles Dodgers - Deeper and with more contract and position flexibility than last year, which makes July improvements likely. The big unknown is violatility. If Kent and Bradley decide to be crazy, it could sink them.​
2 - San Francisco Giants - Look pretty good on paper, but the odds of their old players staying healthy are slim. If Bonds or Schmidt go down, they have no chance to finish first.​
3 - San Diego Padres - Pretty good rotation, but their hitters were psyched out by Petco last season. It remains to be seen if they can adjust because the offense can't rely on Nevin's health and Loretta having another career year.​
4 - Arizona Diamondbacks - Won't be as terrible if only because monumentally bad teams almost always get a little better. But they paid a lot of money for not very much help.​
5 - Colorado Rockies - Still no solution found to make a Coors field team a contender.​

NL East
1 - Florida Marlins - A very good all-around team. My only doubt is that this would finally break the string of a team that has defied doubters for years. That would be the​
2 - Atlanta Braves - Don't know if they have the offense or rotation this year, but they've proven us all wrong before.​
3 - Philadelphia Phillies - Completely agree that the removal of Bowa makes them a legitimate wild card contender. And is there a more unsung and complementary all-around player than Bobby Abreu? Every team should want that guy.​
4 - New York Mets - The same crazy combination of overpaid mercenaries we're used to seeing. Someday they'll learn the error of their ways and the rest of the NL East will be sorry.​
5 - Washington Nationals - outside chance that they'll be better than the Mets if everyting goes their way. But I'm looking forward to the next televised game at RFK, with that wacky upper-deck sombrero.​

NL Central
1 - St. Louis Cardinals - The only major downgrade was Epstein for Renteria. That is one powerful lineup. They can win 7-8 games less than last year and still win the division.​
2 - Chicago Cubs - Don't see how they replace the bats of Sosa and Alou. But the rotation will keep them in more games than they deserve.​
3 - Houston Astros - Lost a lot of bats, but in their bandbox stadium they will probably still score. In another division they'd be lower.​
4 - Cincinnati Reds - I don't see these guys getting it together because of their lack of pitching.​
5 - Pittsburgh Pirates - I really wish these guys could get it together because their stadium looks so nice. But they just don't know how to get or develop good players these days.​
6 - Milwaukee Brewers - Not enough bad things can happen to Bud's team. It's only a matter of time before someone makes them an offer for Sheets that they can't refuse.​

Wild Card - Atlanta Braves or Giants. Florida and St. Louis have to be considered the favorites for the pennant at this point.
 
AL West
1 - Los Angeles Angels - They should have more offensive help for Guerrero compared to last year, without having to worry about Glaus. Rodriguez will be at least as good a closer as Percival, if not better.​
2 - Seattle Mariners - I don't see Sexson and Beltre duplicating their last great seasons at the same time. They will be greatly improved though.​
3 - Texas Rangers - How Showalter got them so far last season with a joke of a rotation is beyond me. Something tells me he can't duplicate it again. On the other hand, if their starters are decent in 2005, they could be in 2nd.​
4 - Oakland As - Agreed, they lost a lot of experienced players. Now we'll find out if it was all about OPS or just the Big Three.​

AL East
1 - New York Yankees - So many great players all on one team that it's hard to bet against them. However, I've felt for the last couple years that the Yanks have been straying toward insane Mets-style free agent hunting and that eventually the team chemistry will just collapse. Historically, quite a few teams with a lot of mercenaries have underachieved, but the Yankees have avoided this so far.​
2 - Boston Red Sox - They might just be better offensively than last year and if the Yanks have any trouble they have an outside chance at 1st. But who knows how they'll react to being defending champs? Uncharted territory, for sure.​
3 - Baltimore Orioles - the Sosa/Tejada tandem could potentially be something special, but I don't think they've got much pitching.​
4 - Tampa Bay Devil Rays - Piniella's magic finally works and he gets them all the way up to 4th.​
5 - Toronto Blue Jays - Time to rebuild.​

AL Central
1 - Minnesota Twins - Still the class of a mediocre division. Who else can stop them?​
2 - Detroit Tigers - They have a "hit bottom with that historically bad season and now on the rise" vibe to them. They've got some veterans and could make some noise in this division.​
3 - Chicago White Sox - Honestly, any of these middle three teams could end up here. Your guess is as good as mine.​
4 - Cleveland Indians - I haven't really been following them the last couple years, but I don't think they're poised to make a big leap.​
5 - Kansas City Royals - Prettiest stadium in the AL. That's all I got.​

Wild Card - Boston Red Sox. Don't see how it could be anyone else unless the Yankees really slip up. The AL really looks like a redux of last season.
 
Sayhey said:
I don't get it either. It would be like the Giants moving to Oakland and calling themselves the "San Francisco Giants of Oakland." It's a name tailor-made for selling more merchandise and that's about all. It makes no sense. Anaheim isn't even in LA county much less the city limits. They should've stayed with the "California Angels."

Since I stopped rooting for the Angels in the early '90s, I don't really care what they call themselves. But I don't think it's a good move. This will alienate a lot of people in Orange County, which is their main fanbase and those folks don't want ANYTHING to do with Los Angeles. They hate LA almost as much as Nocals do, if you can believe that. I find it hard to believe that there are enough Angels fans in outlying areas that will be more attracted to the team because of the name change. How many people really live within the city limits of their favorite team anyway?

The name change itself is really not that crazy, what with "New York" football teams playing New Jersey and many, many teams playing in suburbs (Texas Rangers, Detroit Pistons, Washington Redskins, New England Patriots, etc.).

The "of Anaheim" is only the official name, left on there to satisfy the requirements of their stadium lease with the city of Anaheim. They don't expect anyone to say the full name, just "Los Angeles Angels". The abbreviations I've seen so far are "LAA" and now -- wha? -- "LAD" for the Dodgers.
 
saabmp3 said:
I agree, Edgar isn't going to hit 40, but I think he will double what he did last year (~10 if memory serves me correctly). Johnny - Ichiro (which I just noticed that they're only 13 days apart in age), is harder. Johnny has 20 HR's, a .380 OBP (that's what matters in a lead off spot, getting on base), .477 SLG, .304 AVG, 92 RBI's. Ichiro has 8 HR's, a .414 OBP, .455 SLG and .372 AVG, 60 RBI's. Both excellent stats for a lead off. Ichiro wins in OBP (one of the biggest stats up there) and AVG. However, Johnny's OBP is very respectable (only .034 below) and is made up with a better slugging %. His AVG is much lower than Ichiro's, I don't think any of the stats can make up for that. Here's the kicker, 20 HR's and 92 RBI's. This goes back to what I was saying about Ichiro in the first place. RBIies are what can make and break a game and Johnny just takes the cake here.

It's a tough comparison, I think I've shown my side of the argument pretty well.

BEN

I think you're right that it is a tough comparison, but I submit that most of that difference in RBIs is a result of who hit behind them last year. 92 RBIs by a leadoff man is considered pretty unusual and that only happens on a team with a bunch of big bats like the Sox. If Ichiro had played for the Sox last year, I bet he'd have at least 92 RBIs too.

I think defense puts Ichiro over the top here. He's the best right fielder in baseball: runs like the wind, super-accurate arm, great at playing the angles. He makes a Mariners game worth watching all by himself. His style isn't for everyone and he doesn't play to the statheads' liking, but he's great for the game. Damon is still a better than average center fielder, but not what he once was.
 
Sayhey said:
After so many years at the worst park in the majors, I'm just happy the Giants have a great park to sell tickets for. It looks like over 3 million again this year, and I don't care how long they've been fans.

I love the story about the city leaders showing the team owner Candlestick Point in the early morning when the wind is calmest. By comparison, LA's people took O'Malley up in a helicopter, showed him Chavez Ravine and said, "Can I have that?"

One of my proudest moments as a Dodger fan was back in 1998 when I took a few college friends to a game at Dodgers Stadium. It was a lovely spring evening and the sunset was glowing off the hills over the outfield. Both of them were from the Bay area and had followed the Giants and A's all their lives. At one point, one turned to the other and said, "The Giants deserve a stadium as nice as this one instead of Candlestick." And now they have one.

Postscript: I remember that this was in May 1998 because it was the day of the Piazza trade. Rumors were swirling as we left for the park and he didn't play in the game. It wasn't confirmed until after we got back to my house. So that quote was really the only good thing that happened that day. :mad:

PPS: A couple years ago I went to a 49ers preseason game at Candlestick, my only trip there. I'd heard about the wind, but was amazed to see the flags on top of one corner of the stadium all facing in different directions. At various times one would be wrapped completely around its flagpole, one would flap lightly, the other looked like it was starched sideways. Then they'd switch off. Crazy!
 
aloofman said:
I love the story about the city leaders showing the team owner Candlestick Point in the early morning when the wind is calmest. By comparison, LA's people took O'Malley up in a helicopter, showed him Chavez Ravine and said, "Can I have that?"

One of my proudest moments as a Dodger fan was back in 1998 when I took a few college friends to a game at Dodgers Stadium. It was a lovely spring evening and the sunset was glowing off the hills over the outfield. Both of them were from the Bay area and had followed the Giants and A's all their lives. At one point, one turned to the other and said, "The Giants deserve a stadium as nice as this one instead of Candlestick." And now they have one.

Postscript: I remember that this was in May 1998 because it was the day of the Piazza trade. Rumors were swirling as we left for the park and he didn't play in the game. It wasn't confirmed until after we got back to my house. So that quote was really the only good thing that happened that day. :mad:

PPS: A couple years ago I went to a 49ers preseason game at Candlestick, my only trip there. I'd heard about the wind, but was amazed to see the flags on top of one corner of the stadium all facing in different directions. At various times one would be wrapped completely around its flagpole, one would flap lightly, the other looked like it was starched sideways. Then they'd switch off. Crazy!

The coldest I've ever been without snow was an evening Giants-Dodger game at the 'Stick. My brother and I huddled against the wall behind the left-field bleachers trying to keep warm. It was impossible and I don't know how the players could continue to play. We all made it through the game somehow and the Giants won. The 'Stick was a pit. Now it is called Monster Park and there couldn't be a more appropriate name. I love the Giants and 'Niners, but it truly takes a commitment to watch games there. It's not quite as bad in football season, but the 'Niners still need a new park - and a new owner, but that's another topic all together.
 
This is a strange twist.

03/09/2005 12:14 PM ET

Ankiel to switch from mound to outfield

Former Cards pitcher excited about 'new challenge'

By*Matthew Leach*/*MLB.com

JUPITER, Fla. -- As of Tuesday, the Cardinals expected Rick Ankiel to be their starting pitcher in a "B" game against the Marlins on Wednesday morning. By 9 a.m. CT on Wednesday, rain had washed out that game and Ankiel was ready to announce he wouldn't be pitching anymore, anywhere.

Ankiel, once considered a future Cy Young Award winner, has decided to pursue a career as an outfielder, leaving the pitcher's mound behind for good. The telling wording in a release by the Cardinals was that Ankiel "has chosen to retire as a Major League pitcher." He will begin working out as an outfielder immediately.

General manager Walt Jocketty admitted he was "disappointed." Manager Tony La Russa seemed resigned, while supportive of Ankiel's move. Teammates expressed surprise.

For Ankiel, though, it was a relief...

Good luck, Rick. Just where is he going to play in the Cardinals' outfield? Not in the majors is my guess.
 
Sayhey said:
This is a strange twist.



Good luck, Rick. Just where is he going to play in the Cardinals' outfield? Not in the majors is my guess.

Maybe the thinking is that he needs to take desperate measures to preserve his career, and if he can make it as an outfielder, then someone will want him. In order to make the Cards even as a backup outfielder would be unprecedented in modern times. All of the successful switches I can remember involved a position player becoming a pitcher in the minors, then making the majors as a pitcher.

Bill James had an article about this in one of his abstracts, about how at a certain point over a century ago, the skills of pitchers started to become more valuable than those of position players, leading to the end of two-way players at the major league level. This was also the exact same time when pitchers stopped trying to hit with any meaningful impact, and the tradition of very weak-hitting pitchers began.

Sounds like just a desperate move by Ankiel to me, although not a very risky one. He's at about rock bottom right now.
 
The funny thing is I kept reading that he was on the verge of a major comeback. I have to think that new arm troubles forced his decision. I remember him as a good hitter for a pitcher, but he better be a lot better than that.
 
Looks like Big Mac used roids as he pleaded the fifth today, another sad day for baseball. Looks like Maris is still the REAL home run king. :rolleyes:
 
What are the chances?
Mar 22, 7:24 PM EST

Bonds: I may miss entire baseball season

By KEN PETERS
AP Sports Writer

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. (AP) -- Coming off knee surgery and caught up in baseball's steroids scandal, Barry Bonds said he may not play at all this season - despite standing on the doorstep of the sport's most hallowed record.

The San Francisco Giants slugger also said he was physically and mentally "done," and blamed the media for at least part of his troubles.

"I'm tired of my kids crying. You wanted me to jump off a bridge, I finally did," Bonds told reporters Tuesday, shortly after returning to training camp. "You finally brought me and my family down. ... So now go pick a different person."

Bonds, whose 703 career homers are 11 short of Babe Ruth's total and 52 behind Hank Aaron's record, was back in camp following last week's arthroscopic surgery on his right knee...
 
Looks like someone may have stopped taking the roids and need a year off to recoup?
 
MacNut said:
Looks like someone may have stopped taking the roids and need a year off to recoup?

Even if there are no steroids (or similar substances) involved, what would his skills be like if he has to take a whole year off? If he misses 2005, he will be 41 by the time he plays again. Has there ever been any star baseball player of that age that's missed that much time and made a successful comeback? I suppose even if he only gets back to the level of, say, today's Rafael Palmeiro, he could still play long enough to get the home run record. But what looked pretty sure last fall is not so sure at all now.

This is assuming that it's even accurate. Bonds might just be reacting to the recent furor combined with another surgery. It's possible he could be back in June/July and play well again.
 
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