I just missed out on watching Gilles, I didn't start watching F1 until the following '83 season.
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2007 Formula One Thread
- Thread starter R.Youden
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I just missed out on watching Gilles, I didn't start watching F1 until the following '83 season.
They just take the aesthetic problem and wrap it up nicely in a safety argument.
I actually remember the murmurings at the time of the X-Wings debacle is that the FIA wanted to ban them because they were ugly and didn't fit with the image of what an F1 car should be... then presto they played the safety card.
The same thing happened with BMW last season with those cockpit nose wings.
Anyway... looks like the FIA might have finally begun to get the idea,
though unless they provide a corresponding increase in mechanical grip, I doubt it'll make the slightest bit of difference.FIA considers banning winglets
Valencia confirms seven-year F1 deal
I'm not sure if a street circuit is really going to help things Bernie.
I'm not sure if a street circuit is really going to help things Bernie.
I like street circuits, they often make for some interesting racing. It'll also stem the tide of dull tracks made by a certain German.
He's much maligned isn't he.
But... I do think Turkey is potentially one of the great tracks, and I can't help but feel that his revisions to the Hockenheimring have provoked far better racing than the previous incarnation.
But another street circuit... I'm just not sure, F1 is littered with a history of failed street circuits.
Failed how? In that they didn't last, or that the racing wasn't good? I think the racing on some of the old tracks was interesting, and a little variety never hurts to keep the teams on their toes.
With regards to Mr Tilke; He is capable of good things, but most of his courses consist purely of fast straights and slow corners, and that's not fun for drivers or spectators.
With regards to Mr Tilke; He is capable of good things, but most of his courses consist purely of fast straights and slow corners, and that's not fun for drivers or spectators.
The Valencia thing is a bit suspect. It is only valid if a local guy gets re-elected. Good one Bernie!
There does appear to be a current view to neutering circuits but that isn't what they want. Would they rather have races all-over the world, or use the best 16 tracks in Europe?
Bernie is like the pied-piper sometimes. We all must follow, even if he is leading us down a dead-end.
There does appear to be a current view to neutering circuits but that isn't what they want. Would they rather have races all-over the world, or use the best 16 tracks in Europe?
Bernie is like the pied-piper sometimes. We all must follow, even if he is leading us down a dead-end.
Both.
Think Detroit, Phoenix, Australia, Canada... those races were/are frequently the dullest of the season.
His formula is to try and promote overtaking. With the cars current reliance on aerodynamics it almost impossible for cars to follow closely enough through fast corners to actually be able to overtake.
Turkey is a magnificent track (so we know Tilke has it in him), but it's fortunate in that it's built on unlevel terrain and a circuit benefits from a number of undulations.
But if you ask me... the circuits are less of a problem then the cars themselves at the moment.
Aerodynamical reliance = less overtaking
Less mechanical grip = less overtaking
Rev limit = less overtaking
I know it wasn't F1, there was over taking involved
That's because the cars were slower, they were less aerodynamically dependent and had more mechanical grip, that and there was quite a large gap between the amount of talent between the drivers.
Looking at the current demand for overtaking in Formula One I think that there is a fundamental issue.
Now that the teams have more power over the rule making are they going to pass a rule which may increase overtaking? The teams don't want overtaking, they want to be able to go backwards during a race and they have spent such a vast amount on aero work that the shareholders won't be happy if the £50 million on a new wind tunnel is wasted.
What the FIA needs to do is look at ways of making the issue of aerodynamics in Formula One a new challenge, ie a total revamp of the regulations, but not to remove it all together.
Maybe have a rule where all rear aero must be one piece of bodywork and non-adjustable during the race weekend. This would then put more incentive onto using the wind tunnels and computer modeling.
Now that the teams have more power over the rule making are they going to pass a rule which may increase overtaking? The teams don't want overtaking, they want to be able to go backwards during a race and they have spent such a vast amount on aero work that the shareholders won't be happy if the £50 million on a new wind tunnel is wasted.
What the FIA needs to do is look at ways of making the issue of aerodynamics in Formula One a new challenge, ie a total revamp of the regulations, but not to remove it all together.
Maybe have a rule where all rear aero must be one piece of bodywork and non-adjustable during the race weekend. This would then put more incentive onto using the wind tunnels and computer modeling.
Singapore confirms 2008 night race
Blimey... tis a busy week isn't it.
<edit>Oh f**k, another street race.
Blimey... tis a busy week isn't it.
<edit>Oh f**k, another street race.
I was at Sepang a few years back, and there was so much overtaking (relatively little at the front, mind you) that it was almost boring. Some piccies.
They certainly produce more overtaking, but are still boring to watch as now even the tracks are being homogenised (with Turkey being the exception). I'd rather have another Spa or Suzuka than anything from Tilke. And I wasn't happy when he took the Hockenheimring (which at least provided some high-speed variety to the year) and made just yet another, same-old, same-old circuit.
Do we really want an entire season of point 'n' squirt races?
Then you end up with a Can-Am car.
The incentive to refine a cars aerodyamics would still be there if we just simply balanced out the current regulations, we don't need sweeping unproven changes just ones that readdress the balance between aerodynamic and mechanical grip.
Banning winglets (and the like) and allowing for a change in the regulations to increase the cars mechanical grip would suffice.
There will still be a need for windtunnels etc, it's just that they won't have an as dramatic effect on the cars performance as they do now.
Why did they switch from slicks to grooved tyres in the first place? I presume it was to increate braking distances (and thus hopefully make it easier to overtake) but I really didn't see the point in it.
Me too.
What I don't want is more street circuits that are detrimental to racing though.
The old Hockenheimring was classic, but the races were just so dull. Don't forget though that Hockenheim had been neutered long before Tilke got his hands on it though, with the additions of chicanes and the stadium section.
No. But nor do I want a season of processional races on circuits that with the current regulations make it near impossible to overtake on the track.
And it would appear that with the additions of Valencia and Singapore this is exactly the direction we're going in.
Reduced cornering speeds.
There were a lot of rash changes to F1 after Imola '94, tyres and the reduction in ride height being two of them.
The idea was to reduce the grip in the tires and slow down cornering speeds. It was also implemented when the sport went from one to two tyre manufacturers so both companies had to design a new tyre an no-one had an advantage.
It should be the cars that promote overtaking, not the tracks. If he designs all the tracks like he does now, we'll end up with hundreds of identical tracks across the world, almost all with no personality.
Drivers don't enjoy those tracks, they like tracks like Brands Hatch with elevation changes and mid/high speed corners.
Change the cars, because if you wreck the tracks they'll be wrecked forever.
Drivers don't enjoy those tracks, they like tracks like Brands Hatch with elevation changes and mid/high speed corners.
Change the cars, because if you wreck the tracks they'll be wrecked forever.
I agree, look at the first corners of Malaysia, Bahrain and China, almost all the same...
The way I see it, most races are pretty boring at the moment anyway. At least with a street circuit the cars look spectacular; they're not pointing 'n' squirting on a track 50m of gravel trap away from the nearest barrier or spectator.
I actually never saw the pre-chicane Hockenheim though I was aware of the changes. There was an interesting element to Hockenheim even after those changes though - it was quite a challenge to come up with a low-downforce setup suitable for the straights that didn't penalise you enormously in the stadium section. It became quite a balancing act which the teams often got wrong.
And I recall quite a few races there where one or more of the front runners had to start from the back and had a spectacular race making their way up through the field - which you can do at that circuit if you have the pace.
Well, you're not going to have an enormous amount of overtaking when qualifying puts the fastest cars at the front and the teams have achieved a level of consistency that means cars that perform well in qualifying tend to perform well in the race as well.
Cheers.
Reduced stability through corners just seems so incompatible with overtaking. If the driver in front is struggling for grip, how on earth is the lunatic diving down the inside going to fare any better?
Valencia confirms seven-year F1 deal
I'm not sure if a street circuit is really going to help things Bernie.
"The Spanish government on Friday accused Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone of insulting Spain by conditioning Valencia's new European Grand Prix on an electoral victory for a conservative opposition party"
Massa has beaten Alonso to pole in Spain, so hopefully it will be an interesting race.