2008-09 Football Thread - The Second Half

[Lord Blackadder]

This is supposed to be a discussion about Football, not attacks on particular clubs.

Excellent advice...

Why? because they show you how boring dutch football really is? Wake me up when PSV, Ajax or Feyenoord come back from the 70's / 80's unless you class the Russian Railways Cup as good

For anyone interested out there, the Aussie football/soccer league's grand final is on this Saturday 28th (the A-League).

I did hear about that, though I'm not sure I could get it here in the states (they do show some A-League, so perhaps). Unfortunately I'll be traveling that day.

I have heard that the A-League is a very well-run league for being as new as it is - but I'm sad to hear that the Wellington Phoenix are going to be booted out of the league since they are from New Zealand...in the MLS we have one team from Canada and will probably add one more in the next few years.

Robbie Fowler is down there as well now...there were rumors he might come to MLS but given the choice I'd probably go to Oz too.

 

[Silencio]

I see all the hate for Man Utd here as just pure jealousy imho. European champions, English champions and world club champions and looking good this season, must really taste bitter for you all

Don't take the bait.

I normally don't like rooting for the big teams in any sport, but I have followed Man Utd since about 1992 (thanks to being a big New Order and Manchester music nerd, though I could have always followed Rob Gretton's lead and supported City!). So now I guess I know what it feels like to be a NY Yankees fan: even though they have loads of die-hard fans they're still seen disdainfully as the frontrunner's favorite.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Melbourne Victory get the thumbs up from me, having as they do a former Tiger in their ranks.

How is 'Super' Danny Allsopp getting on down under, i-ash?

 

[Blue Velvet]

Predictions for tonight's and Wednesday's Champions League matches involving English clubs:

Arsenal v Roma 1-1
Inter Milan v Man Utd 2-1
Chelsea v Juventus 1-1
Real Madrid v Liverpool 2-0

Thread-specific bonus predictions:

FA Cup 5th round replay: Hull v Sheff Utd 1-0
Premier League: Hull v Blackburn 2-1

Before anyone laughs, I'll remind them of my uncanny skills in making predictions in the 2004 World Cup thread.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

^^Ok, I'll bite:

Arsenal v Roma 2-0
Inter Milan v Man Utd 1-0
Chelsea v Juventus 1-0
Real Madrid v Liverpool 3-1

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Predictions for tonight's and Wednesday's Champions League matches involving English clubs:

Pretty much all of those make me happy except the Liverpool result.

Real have been playing poorly but grinding out results, and I think we can beat them. Benitez must now be seeing the Champions League (once again) as his best (only?) chance for silverware. Liverpool will push hard to get that away goal in the first game, then park the bus at home.

I find predicting CL results to be really hard, because league form doesn't always seem to mean much.

Arsenal v Roma 1-0
Inter v Man Utd 3-2
Chelsea v Juventus 2-1
Real Madrid v Liverpool 1-1

 

[Silencio]

Arsenal v Roma 2-0
Inter Milan v Man Utd 1-0
Chelsea v Juventus 0-0
Real Madrid v Liverpool 1-1

 

[Jaffa Cake]

I'll go with...

Arsenal v Roma 1-1
Inter Milan v Man Utd 1-1
Chelsea v Juventus 0-1
Real Madrid v Liverpool 0-1

I'm thinking we'll see a series of cagey performances, no one's going to want to make any mistakes in the first leg matches. What I'd like to see though are the English sides who are taking on Italian outfits playing a high tempo game and hopefully that will give them the edge.

Anyway, onto more important stuff...

FA Cup 5th round replay: Hull v Sheff Utd: 2-1 aet
Premier League: Hull v Blackburn 1-1

We need to start winning. I officially consider us to be in a relegation fight and as such my loins are girded for the battle ahead.



As you can see, I've a couple of spare pairs if anyone wants to join me.

 

[Silencio]

0-0 Inter / Man U at the half. I just realized it's on ESPN2 and I'm working at home, so I'll watch the second. Looks like Man U failed to capitalized on a lot of opportunities in the first...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I've been watching...the Inter defense has been horrible. Julio Cesar has single-handedly kept Inter in the game with some nice saves. It looks like Mourinho is making a change in defense as soon as the second half gets under way.

EDIT: Good game. Man Utd should have scored early on, but Inter pushed hard in the second half. You'd have to say the result is better for Inter, but Fergie will fancy his chances in the second leg...still, he is facing Mourinho here.

Man of the Match: Julio Cesar.

 

[Silencio]

Man of the Match: Julio Cesar.

No doubt about it. Some good saves but also a lot of "in the right place at the right time", as he was on a C. Ronaldo header in the first half and that last free kick at the end of stoppage time.

Coming in I thought Inter would win so I suppose I'm pleased with the result.

 

[pachyderm]

Of course, rivalries aren't always reciprocated. While some are as intense on both sides (the Old Firm or Arsenal and Spurs, for example) there are plenty of instances where one club will feel an intense rivalry with another club, whose supporters couldn't give two hoots about the other.

Manchester United supporters – and I'm happy to be corrected by garybUK if I'm mistaken – would consider Manchester City (local rivals), Liverpool (they're the two most successful clubs in the country and aren't that far apart geographically either), and historically Leeds United as their most bitter rivals.

From your point of view pachyderm, who would you consider to be Wendesday's key rivals – aside from Sheffield United, of course?

Leeds. Then maybe Barnsley... Then to an even lesser degree Donny Rovers...


What I was getting at was more of a "backhanded" compliment to Manyure. Being that they are so good everyone wants to beat them.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Meanwhile, Coventry City have knocked out Blackburn Rovers in their FA Cup Fifth round replay. Hopefully Rovers won't take their frustrations out on us this Sunday...

 

[MacsRgr8]

Why? because they show you how boring dutch football really is? Wake me up when PSV, Ajax or Feyenoord come back from the 70's / 80's unless you class the Russian Railways Cup as good

I see all the hate for Man Utd here as just pure jealousy imho. European champions, English champions and world club champions and looking good this season, must really taste bitter for you all

Dutch football is crap to watch. I don't really support a club over here, and ever since I went to Highbury in the 70's when I lived in Slough as a kid, I have been an Arsenal supporter.
Problem is that if you can't watch Arsenal play, you loose touch... And that's why I am so happy now I got Sport1.

I have a lot of respect for Man Utd. Many great football players who are NOT irritating play there too. The likes of Scholes, Giggs etc. are players I enjoy to watch (except against Arsenal... ), but Ronaldo gets on my nerves. And let's be honest most non-Man Utd supporters agree he is a tad arrogant, and dives too much...
And no, that's not jealousy.

The same can be said of someone like Figo. Good player, of course! But so irritating... come on.

1-0 against AS Roma!

 

[i-ash]

.... I have heard that the A-League is a very well-run league for being as new as it is - but I'm sad to hear that the Wellington Phoenix are going to be booted out of the league since they are from New Zealand...in the MLS we have one team from Canada and will probably add one more in the next few years.

Robbie Fowler is down there as well now...there were rumors he might come to MLS but given the choice I'd probably go to Oz too.

Wellington being booted out is news to me... According to http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4809858a6488.html they are staying till 2011?

What is the MLS like in terms of quality & support from fans? An ex-Melbourne Victory player (Fred) now plays for Washington DC I think.

Robbie Flower signed on with new club North Queensland Fury... Might be a bit of a shock for him climate/temperature-wise.

Melbourne Victory get the thumbs up from me, having as they do a former Tiger in their ranks.

How is 'Super' Danny Allsopp getting on down under, i-ash?

Danny is a champ, first in the league this year for goals scored. Here's hoping he can bury Adelaide with 1 or 2 this weekend.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Wellington being booted out is news to me... According to http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4809858a6488.html they are staying till 2011?

That's what I meant - if I'm not mistaken they are leaving the league involuntarily?

What is the MLS like in terms of quality & support from fans? An ex-Melbourne Victory player (Fred) now plays for Washington DC I think.

It's hard to compare to the A-League since I haven't seen much A-League football. Some pundits try to compare MLS to the English leagues and, depending who you talk to, they will say MLS teams are the equivalent of anything from League Two teams to the bottom of the Prem... which is nonsense. We have to forge our own identity.

Both quality and support are improving with each season. I think a long-term goal of the MLS is to become a feeder league for some of the big European leagues. We'll never have a Serie A or Premiership in the States, but we might be able to someday develop something more like the Dutch league or Ligue 1. I think the US has a lot of untapped potential

MLS squads always suffer from a lack of depth and many of the best players are "retirees" from better leagues. But there are also a growing number of younger prospects. Moving to the US is attractive enough that we may be able to attract better players as tome goes on and the league improves.

One of the interesting aspects of the MLS is that latino immigrants make up a significant block of MLS supporters - football is much more in their blood than your average Americans and I think they make a big contribution to growing the league support.

 

[Fuzzy14]

It's hard to compare to the A-League since I haven't seen much A-League football. Some pundits try to compare MLS to the English leagues and, depending who you talk to, they will say MLS teams are the equivalent of anything from League Two teams to the bottom of the Prem... which is nonsense. We have to forge our own identity.

We (SPL) get that too, I would say the Old Firm are about mid-to lower EPL table and the rest are Championship and FL Division 1 material.

Both quality and support are improving with each season. I think a long-term goal of the MLS is to become a feeder league for some of the big European leagues.

We've seen a lot of clubs in Europe forge ties with other teams, Scottish examples are Hearts with Lithuanian players (due to ownership) and Airdrie with Spanish players due to Steve Archibald. Maybe a European team will take a MLS team under their wing? Rangers in particular have had more of their fair share of American players.

The strange state of Scottish football means that many of our reserve teams are better than the teams in lower divisions, so it looks like Celtic are going to try and enter a 'B' team in our league division 3. Not sure how that would work with league cup and promotion.

MLS squads always suffer from a lack of depth and many of the best players are "retirees" from better leagues.

There is a phrase used around these parts where we refer to teams like that (Kilmarnock FC in particular) as Dad's Army!

Blimey! We're top of the league! How did that happen?

 

[pachyderm]

Wellington being booted out is news to me... According to http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/4809858a6488.html they are staying till 2011?

What is the MLS like in terms of quality & support from fans? An ex-Melbourne Victory player (Fred) now plays for Washington DC I think.

Robbie Flower signed on with new club North Queensland Fury... Might be a bit of a shock for him climate/temperature-wise.



Danny is a champ, first in the league this year for goals scored. Here's hoping he can bury Adelaide with 1 or 2 this weekend.

espn36O has a lot of A League football. From what I've seen it is OK football. But I cannot make myself watch...

...
It's hard to compare to the A-League since I haven't seen much A-League football. Some pundits try to compare MLS to the English leagues and, depending who you talk to, they will say MLS teams are the equivalent of anything from League Two teams to the bottom of the Prem... which is nonsense. We have to forge our own identity.

Both quality and support are improving with each season. I think a long-term goal of the MLS is to become a feeder league for some of the big European leagues. We'll never have a Serie A or Premiership in the States, but we might be able to someday develop something more like the Dutch league or Ligue 1. I think the US has a lot of untapped potential

MLS squads always suffer from a lack of depth and many of the best players are "retirees" from better leagues. But there are also a growing number of younger prospects. Moving to the US is attractive enough that we may be able to attract better players as tome goes on and the league improves.

One of the interesting aspects of the MLS is that latino immigrants make up a significant block of MLS supporters - football is much more in their blood than your average Americans and I think they make a big contribution to growing the league support.

Pretty good grasp of the MLS. Compared to A league I think maybe we are a step below in quality. I can't stomach much of the MLS either by the way. But I do watch.

There was an article on soccernet.com about the make up of a crowd at any given MLS match and the make up of the teams on the field. Stark contrast. A great deal of the fans were Latino but that didn't translate on to the pitch.

We (SPL) get that too, I would say the Old Firm are about mid-to lower EPL table and the rest are Championship and FL Division 1 material.



We've seen a lot of clubs in Europe forge ties with other teams, Scottish examples are Hearts with Lithuanian players (due to ownership) and Airdrie with Spanish players due to Steve Archibald. Maybe a European team will take a MLS team under their wing? Rangers in particular have had more of their fair share of American players.

The strange state of Scottish football means that many of our reserve teams are better than the teams in lower divisions, so it looks like Celtic are going to try and enter a 'B' team in our league division 3. Not sure how that would work with league cup and promotion.



There is a phrase used around these parts where we refer to teams like that (Kilmarnock FC in particular) as Dad's Army!

Blimey! We're top of the league! How did that happen?

Look out for Dumbarton...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

We (SPL) get that too, I would say the Old Firm are about mid-to lower EPL table and the rest are Championship and FL Division 1 material.

Yeah, I always hear people comparing the Old Firm to Premiership teams - it's an inevitable comparison but a meaningless one. Each league is different. I think it makes a little more sense with the Old Firm though, because they play in Europe and so they do come up against a variety of top teams including Premier League sides..

Maybe a European team will take a MLS team under their wing? Rangers in particular have had more of their fair share of American players.

Chivas USA is already an offshoot of Mexican team Chivas de Guadalajara, so it's happened before. In fact, this fall there was a story that Barcelona (yes THAT Barcelona) was hooking up with a Miami-based owner of a Bolivian team to possibly start an MLS franchise in Florida. Florida has been a tough market for football in America (two teams have already been formed and failed), but with a big club like Barca behind it (and, dare I say, perhaps a retiring-from-Europe TH14?), it might work. Lots of Latinos in Florida, though, baseball is a bigger sport down there. But who knows?

Pretty good grasp of the MLS. Compared to A league I think maybe we are a step below in quality. I can't stomach much of the MLS either by the way. But I do watch.

Last season I watched and attended as many games as I could, and followed Columbus very closely. From my perspective, Columbus and Chicago play good football by any standard. Period. Any football fan would have to admit that. It might not be top division football, but it is satisfying to watch for any but the most demanding fan. Several other teams such as Houston, DC United, New York, and Chivas USA can produce great performances on the day. Other teams are a further step down. LA is crap, with or without Landon & Becks (and it isn't completely their fault).

The soccer-specific stadiums are making a HUGE difference IMHO. because they create a football-exclusive space which is really helpful in forging the teams' identities in the public mind. Columbus has the first one to be built on US soil, and even though it won't blow you away visually it makes the game better for the fans.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Danny is a champ, first in the league this year for goals scored. Here's hoping he can bury Adelaide with 1 or 2 this weekend.

Good stuff, nice to see that he's doing well.

Maybe a European team will take a MLS team under their wing?

There's been a bit of interest in teams lower down than the MLS, for one thing I know Crystal Palace have a team over in Baltimore that they ship some of their kids out to.

Having teams from Europe or elsewhere in the Americas heavily backing MLS teams could prove to be a double edged sword, though. Certainly, the US outfits would benefit from the exposure, loaned youth players and the like, but there's also the risk that strong links might dilute the League's and the team's identities.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Chelsea ahead and had looked to be bossing the game, but Juve have shown signs of life in the last few minutes. I haven't seen Drogba dive yet, but it's still early in the game.

Having teams from Europe or elsewhere in the Americas heavily backing MLS teams could prove to be a double edged sword, though. Certainly, the US outfits would benefit from the exposure, loaned youth players and the like, but there's also the risk that strong links might dilute the League's and the team's identities.

There's certainly truth to that - but there are also big benefits to be gained. Look at CFR Cluj - a team somewhat similar in size with an MLS team. I read somewhere during their CL run that they had signed some sort of partnership with a Spanish or Portuguese club, and this arrangement gave them access to players that helped them to a decent run in the Champions' league.

 

[MacsRgr8]

Chelsea ahead and had looked to be bossing the game, but Juve have shown signs of life in the last few minutes. I haven;t seen Drogba dive yet, but it's still early in the game.

Just done so.. early in the 2nd half...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I was just about to edit my post to reflect that. HUGE dive from the Ivorian.

 

[MacsRgr8]

LOL

Good game to watch without it being a classic. Wouldn't surprise me to see a goal from Juve, though.

I always like to see Del Piero playing. Though I do hope Chelsea win!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

...and another massive Drogba dive. Fortunately the ref wasn't fooled. Chelsea look to have this one wrapped up unless there are some late heroics though.

According to the live text updates, Ryan Babel is shockingly average once again after coming on to replace Torres. Bayern are simply crushing Sporting Lisbon.