2009 Formula One Thread

[M. Malone]

Bernie Ecclestone wants to change the point system to the medal system, so the one who wins the most golds wins the championship.

It's an interesting idea, but I think if F1 just goes back to having 2nd place receive 6 points as opposed to 8 right now, then things will be much better as it makes a big difference between 2nd and first.

Here's the link:

Link

 

[Superman07]

Bernie Ecclestone wants to change the point system to the medal system, so the one who wins the most golds wins the championship.

It's an interesting idea, but I think if F1 just goes back to having 2nd place receive 6 points as opposed to 8 right now, then things will be much better as it makes a big difference between 2nd and first.

Here's the link:

Link

I was about to post on that. I really don't like the idea at all. Maybe it will make people pass more, but it doesn't feel as epic and drawn out. For example, wouldn't Massa have won this year regardless of Lewis' performance? Talk about boring, especially with something that came down to the last corner!

I guess at a minimum wait a year and let the drivers get acustomed to the cars, especially if they are supposed to allow for more overtaking.

 

[Superman07]

This is just too funny.

Christian Klien says the BMW Sauber he tested yesterday at Barcelona is the ugliest Formula One car he has ever seen.

"I never saw such a sexy car," joked Klien after testing. "It looks very, very new to everybody.

"To me, for the moment, it's the worst (looking) Formula One car I have ever seen. It just doesn't fit together.

 

[sikkinixx]

boycotting F1 till they bring the Montreal race back 🙁I had a hotel booked and everything for this year....

 

[iGav]

Next season will be Button's defining moment, if he doesn't deliver when the proper car is available, then his F1 career might as well be over.

But one of the defining qualities of the best is exactly that, the ability to deliver even when a proper car isn't available.

He is struggling against Barrichello, when he should be dominating him... and that says it all for me.

Comparing Hamilton to Senna and Schumacher in their first seasons is really difficult. Schumacher and Senna both started at inferior teams at the time,

But Hamilton has arguably been more consistent in his performances then either Senna or Schumacher in their first seasons.

Whilst you may have a point about Senna and Schumacher not starting their careers in a top team, neither did they have to go up against a 2x WDC in their respective first seasons either.

People criticize Hamilton because they believe someone like him should do better.

It's difficult to see how he could do much better, sure he should've won the 2007 WDC, and he was unlucky not to do so, but he did beat his 2x WDC teammate in the process, and he did win the WDC in his 2nd season.

I suspect that should he ever end up in a poor car, he'll deliver in much the same way as Senna or Schumacher did. He's that good. The question is... will he be regarded as being better in the coming years?

 

[CWallace]

It's an interesting idea, but I think if F1 just goes back to having 2nd place receive 6 points as opposed to 8 right now, then things will be much better as it makes a big difference between 2nd and first.

The reason F1 changed to the current system was to prevent seasons like the one where Michael Schumacher won the WC at France so the next eight or so races were just "whatever".

 

[M. Malone]

The reason F1 changed to the current system was to prevent seasons like the one where Michael Schumacher won the WC at France so the next eight or so races were just "whatever".

Yea, but that was then, now you have, Hamilton, Massa, Kimi, and starting next season, Alonso, all regularly fighting for first place. It's definitely safe to go back to that system without hurting the sport

 

[benlangdon]

hey whats up with the narrow rear wing?

also
whats up with Ferrari's intake on the right side?

 

[iGav]

neither did they have to go up against a 2x WDC in their respective first seasons either.

Gavin, Gavin, Gavin... Schumacher went up against a 3x WDC in his first season didn't he. 😱 Though only for a handful of races.

 

[CWallace]

Yea, but that was then, now you have, Hamilton, Massa, Kimi, and starting next season, Alonso, all regularly fighting for first place. It's definitely safe to go back to that system without hurting the sport

While one cannot dispute the abilities of Michael, that the Ferrari was also the best chassis-engine combination (in terms of reliability and performance) and their team management was arguably the best helped. And Mansell won the title in 1992 at race 12 of 16 (and if he had won Monaco, likely would have secured it in Round 11).

Gavin, Gavin, Gavin... Schumacher went up against a 3x WDC in his first season didn't he. 😱 Though only for a handful of races.

Scumacher's first full season was 1992 so he fought Senna for 16 races and ended up ahead of him by three points at the end. 🙂

 

[djellison]

hey whats up with the narrow rear wing?

That's to improve overtaking, supposedly. Ditto the snow-plough front wings.

 

[iGav]

Scumacher's first full season was 1992 so he fought Senna for 16 races and ended up ahead of him by three points at the end. 🙂

Indeed, but his teammate for 5 races in his first season was a a 3x WDC, albeit not a reigning one like Fred.

 

[Rybold]

Bernie Ecclestone wants to change the point system to the medal system, so the one who wins the most golds wins the championship.

From an education/engineering/mathematical/statistical standpoint, that's possibly the WORST thing F1 could do! Lewis lost at Interlagos to Felipe, but Lewis won the championship ... why? If you know anything about making a graph, the Area under the curve is the "integral;" the sum of the individual increments. The winner of the championship is not the person that has the most wins, but the person that has accumulated the most points; and therefore, the most Area under the curve. It is a brilliant display of advanced mathematics. Reducing it to "the person with the most first place finishes ("gold medals") would be akin to dumbing the scoring system from calculus down to addition and subtraction. Dispicable!

 

[M. Malone]

From an education/engineering/mathematical/statistical standpoint, that's possibly the WORST thing F1 could do! Lewis lost at Interlagos to Felipe, but Lewis won the championship ... why? If you know anything about making a graph, the Area under the curve is the "integral;" the sum of the individual increments. The winner of the championship is not the person that has the most wins, but the person that has accumulated the most points; and therefore, the most Area under the curve. It is a brilliant display of advanced mathematics. Reducing it to "the person with the most first place finishes ("gold medals") would be akin to dumbing the scoring system from calculus down to addition and subtraction. Dispicable!

Think about it, switching to the Medal system will make NASCAR more sophisticated than F1 😀

 

[CWallace]

Think about it, switching to the Medal system will make NASCAR more sophisticated than F1 😀

And yet one of the major reasons of launching "The Chase" was the prior year the Cup winner had, what, one race win? They just consistently scored in the Top 10 so they amassed the most points.

Rybold's point is true. However, to many people "math is hard" so they prefer it easier. Most wins = Champion is an equation most people can wrap their heads around. 😛

 

[Rybold]

And yet one of the major reasons of launching "The Chase" was the prior year the Cup winner had, what, one race win? They just consistently scored in the Top 10 so they amassed the most points.

Rybold's point is true. However, to many people "math is hard" so they prefer it easier. Most wins = Champion is an equation most people can wrap their heads around. 😛

The average person has no idea how a Formula One car works. They have no idea how to calculate down force, frictional coefficients, or drag force. And, God forbid, they ever need to calculate kJ/mol lost during adiabatic expansion! They watch from the sidelines because they want to enjoy the intuitive beauty and not have to think too hard. That's fine. In that case, they don't need to know how the scoring system works either. LOL!!! 😀

If I was in charge, I'd love to make a race season, where the elapsed time and not the points is what matters. When you cross the finish line, each race, the stop watch records your time. At the end of the season, the person with the least time wins. That would be a true integration instead of just a Riemann Sum. It would be beautiful. We could still have a podium and recognize the winners for each race as is done today. 🙂

 

[JFreak]

Kimi will win the 2009 title, here's why.

First of all there are the stupid statistics. Kimi has been fighting for it in 2003/2005/2007 (2nd/2nd/1st) and for some reason it looks like he doesn't like testing while things look good. OTOH, the bad years in between force him to focus. There was also a good rookie year in 2001, but while he was driving a Sauber nobody can expect one being fighting for the title.

So, statistically Kimi will have a good year next year. And we all know statistics don't lie about the future 🙂 🙂 🙂

Second, there's this massive rule change coming and the big teams have always been able to take advantage of it better than the rest. Ferrari and McLaren are the ones that should be fast from the beginning, though Renault might surprise us if they can manage to keep it simple. BMW will have equally disastrous season together with Williams, and the japanese teams will suffer greatly unless they find some magic in the new KERS system.

Personally I'm not that interested in KERS at the moment, but the change in grip levels is looking good for Kimi who likes a car that oversteers. The new car has less aero grip on the back and more on the front, and it also has more mechanical grip due to slick tyres. And that also has proportionally larger effect on the front where grooves took off bigger percentage of the tyre surface.

That (grip balance) was actually the problem this year; the mid-season changes made the car understeer which was good for Massa but doesn't suit Kimi's driving at all. When they reverted back to the early season neutral settings, Kimi was fast again. Surprise, surprise; the presence of the king of all understeering drivers (Schumi) is not good for Kimi and the more Schumi stays away from the drawing table the better for Kimi.

Third, it has been confirmed that Ferrari/Kimi have massive testing schedule during the off-season. Ferrari will get loads of feedback from Kimi and the car *will* suit him next season. Expect a finn to win the first race! They'll be ridiculously fast and unless there's a tech failure Kimi will have a great start.

Reminds me of 1997/1998 offseason when Mika was forced into similar situation. There was also rule changes and Mika's massive winter-testing paid off well.

 

[Counterfit]

the presence of the king of all understeering drivers (Schumi)

😕

 

[RaceTripper]

If I was in charge, I'd love to make a race season, where the elapsed time and not the points is what matters. When you cross the finish line, each race, the stop watch records your time. At the end of the season, the person with the least time wins. That would be a true integration instead of just a Riemann Sum. It would be beautiful. We could still have a podium and recognize the winners for each race as is done today. 🙂

So how do you handle a DNF?

 

[iGav]

😕

I thought that as well. It's well known that Schumacher preferred a pin point front end... and had the skills to deal with whatever the back end did (see Berger's comments on the '95 Benetton when he drove it after he moved to the the team in '96), the King of Understeer is Fred.

I don't see how one can blame Schumacher for Räikkönen's inability to adapt to the different handling characteristics either. 😕

 

[Squonk]

So how do you handle a DNF?

I was wondering that myself... Add the time of the last car running at the end of the race?

Or should it be a tiered system:
Tier 1 - most laps completed
In the event of a tie, then look at the cumulative time (with the above rule).

I'm fine with the points system and I don't really have an opinion between 6 or 8 points for 2nd place. How about 7? 😀

 

[R.Youden]

Mark Webber has been seriously injured in a bike crash in Tazmania. It looks like he has multiple fractures to his legs and arms but it is not life threatening.

Unlucky in some ways, very lucky in others.

I doubt he will be fit for the start of the season, let alone start of testing. So if it comes to it, who will take his seat?

I would say Barichello, they need and experienced driver and it looks like he will be leaving Honda. Either that or Bourdais as it looks like he has lost his Toro Rosso drive to Sato (nothing financial there!)

Get well soon Mark.

 

[bartelby]

I was just about to post that.

Here's a BBC News link

 

[M. Malone]

Red Bull Racing just said he will be fit for next season but will miss winter testing.

That's too bad, especially with the new regulations.

Here's the article

 

[emdotdee]

"David Coulthard and Eddie Jordan have joined the BBC as part of next year's presentation team in Formula One.
Coulthard, who retired as a race driver at the end of the 2008 season, will join former team boss Jordan as a pundit alongside anchor Jake Humphrey"


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7745347.stm

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