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2009 Formula One Thread

RaceTripper said:
You are talking about panning technique, like this:
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well thats realtive to the car. at least i think that what you call it.

relative to the ground, it basically is rotating about the pivot of where the wheel is touching the road. so its not pivioting around the axel, its technically pivoting around the part of the wheel that touches the ground.

to achieve this, the picture is taken with the camera not moving.
just to clarify, if something is spinning, a wheel, the relative (tangental?) speed is greater the farther out from the axis. so if you went 5in out from the center, it could be moving at 5mph, but if you went out 10in it could be moving at 10mph. (those speeds are not correct but you get the idea)

it happens like this, if the wheel pivots from the bottom (contact between wheel and ground) and you spun it around that pivot, the farther out from the pivot, the faster the tangential speed is. so if from the center of the wheel we measured the tangental velocity of the outer ege to be X and then we changed the axis from the center to the outside of the rim the center of the rim would be moving at X as wheel since it is the same distance between the center and outside of the rim. but if we still rotated it around the outside of the rim, and the center rotated at X m/s the direct opposite side (on the outer rim directly oposite the piviot on the outer rim) it would be moving at 2X m/s.

so, through my bad explanation, if you take a pic, while holding the camera stationary, the bottom of the rim, should appear almost stationary, while the top should appear at twice the speed of the center of the wheel rotating around the bottom.

so you get a pic of a wheel, where the bottom is clear, and the top is blurry.
ya i did a bad job explaining that. you learn this in the first semester of physics.
 
benlangdon said:
well thats realtive to the car. at least i think that what you call it.

relative to the ground, it basically is rotating about the pivot of where the wheel is touching the road. so its not pivioting around the axel, its technically pivoting around the part of the wheel that touches the ground.

to achieve this, the picture is taken with the camera not moving.
just to clarify, if something is spinning, a wheel, the relative (tangental?) speed is greater the farther out from the axis. so if you went 5in out from the center, it could be moving at 5mph, but if you went out 10in it could be moving at 10mph. (those speeds are not correct but you get the idea)

it happens like this, if the wheel pivots from the bottom (contact between wheel and ground) and you spun it around that pivot, the farther out from the pivot, the faster the tangential speed is. so if from the center of the wheel we measured the tangental velocity of the outer ege to be X and then we changed the axis from the center to the outside of the rim the center of the rim would be moving at X as wheel since it is the same distance between the center and outside of the rim. but if we still rotated it around the outside of the rim, and the center rotated at X m/s the direct opposite side (on the outer rim directly oposite the piviot on the outer rim) it would be moving at 2X m/s.

so, through my bad explanation, if you take a pic, while holding the camera stationary, the bottom of the rim, should appear almost stationary, while the top should appear at twice the speed of the center of the wheel rotating around the bottom.

so you get a pic of a wheel, where the bottom is clear, and the top is blurry.
ya i did a bad job explaining that. you learn this in the first semester of physics.
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If I'm understanding you, I think that would require a very, very fast shutter speed, and I don't think you're going to achieve that using a telephoto lens in most race photography environments, even with a lens wide open at f/2.8. I shot the above picture at f/8 and 1/160 sec. Panning is desirable for side-on shots because it gives you nice wheel and background blur to achieve a sense of speed and motion in the picture. Too fast a shutter speed and the car looks like it's standing still.
 
RaceTripper said:
If I'm understanding you, I think that would require a very, very fast shutter speed, and I don't think you're going to achieve that using a telephoto lens in most race photography environments, even with a lens wide open at f/2.8. I shot the above picture at f/8 and 1/160 sec. Panning is desirable for side-on shots because it gives you nice wheel and background blur to achieve a sense of speed and motion in the picture. Too fast a shutter speed and the car looks like it's standing still.
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ya i have to get a pic of this, i forgot what its technically called.
it looks awsome.
 
Alonso to Ferrari rumours – more details.

allenonf1.wordpress.com said:
According to AS, Monza is where important Ferrari announcements are made (true up to a point) and the traditional end of season Ferrari celebration has been booked in for November at the Valencia circuit (the permanent one, not the F1 street track) in order to celebrate the arrival of the Spanish driver many in the team feel they should have hired in 2006.

“We are not going to waste our time commenting on speculation. Everyone should remember that Massa and Raikkonen have contracts which include 2010,” team spokesman Luca Colajanni is quoted as saying to Gazzetta dello Sport.
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Kimi is racing (has raced?) in his first rally soon – it appears he's off next year.
 
SpookTheHamster said:
If you took a picture without the camera moving you would have either:

Fast shutter speed: A sharp picture of a car with no motion at all anywhere.
Slow shutter speed: A picture with a sharp background and a blurry car.
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ugh, am i going to have to break out my physics book, i just finished my last day of summer school:D
i must say though, its really cool.
 
Hes right... if you keep the camera stationary with a fast shutter it looks like its parked on the road and with a slow shutter the backgrounds in focus but the cars blurred.

To get a sense of motion in the picture you use a slower shutter speed but follow the car... like one of the ones I took from Silverstone below

3641502509_616b8199eb.jpg


:)
 
neil1980 said:
Hes right... if you keep the camera stationary with a fast shutter it looks like its parked on the road and with a slow shutter the backgrounds in focus but the cars blurred.

To get a sense of motion in the picture you use a slower shutter speed but follow the car... like one of the ones I took from Silverstone below

3641502509_616b8199eb.jpg


:)
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good photo but(and mebbe i'm a little confused) you can tell the car is moving because the background is blurry.
 
Bingo - that's what you need to infer speed... blurred backgrounds.

And soon - those damn ugly static wheel covers will be gone as well, so the wheels will be blurred as well :)

Doug
 
hey its not like im making this stuff up.
Dynamics of rotation Chapter 10.
im guessing the wheel is moving really slow and the camera is really fast.

i have some work out problems that show that the top is moving at twice the velocity of the center.

o btw, yes i know that pic is horrible quality.
 

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benlangdon said:
hey its not like im making this stuff up.
Dynamics of rotation Chapter 10.
im guessing the wheel is moving really slow and the camera is really fast.

i have some work out problems that show that the top is moving at twice the velocity of the center.

o btw, yes i know that pic is horrible quality.
Click to expand...
I don't get the appeal here.

My shot of the Ford GT race car was done using panning. The wheels and background are blurred, the car is sharp and in focus. Those are the kinds of side on race pictures I like. Hell I keep trying slower shutters speeds and improving my panning technique so I can get even more wheel/bg blur.
 
benlangdon said:
hey its not like im making this stuff up.
Dynamics of rotation Chapter 10.
im guessing the wheel is moving really slow and the camera is really fast.

i have some work out problems that show that the top is moving at twice the velocity of the center.

o btw, yes i know that pic is horrible quality.
Click to expand...

OK I kind of see the theory behind this.... but the wheel doesnt rotate at the point where its at the ground... as the car moves that point that was on the ground moves around back towards the top (pretty obvious)

It rotates around the centre so I cant see how for the life of me your meant to capture a photo with motion blur as indicated in the text?

As far as I know you can either have it looking stationary or do a panning shot so the cars in focus but the backgrounds not... I cant see the logistics behind having half the wheel blurry but the other half not and im pretty sure any other photographer aperture or professional would agree with me on that one?
 
no there is no point in being able to see what i said in a photo.

i just had been looking at car photos to see if i could see what i had learned in physics last semester.


ya it rotating around the point that it touches the ground, its not actually doing that but its only for an instance and is used as a theory to help make solving some problems easier.

anyway, back to F1:p
 
benlangdon said:
anyway, back to F1:p
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Ok, but I'm not sure you're gonna like it ...

allenonf1.wordpress.com said:
Meanwhile Manor is currently the subject of some controversy regarding the involvement of FIA chief steward Alan Donnelly in the team’s F1 entry.

According to the Guardian, Manor already has VIrgin as a 20% shareholder and Donnelly was working on finding further equity partners and sponsorship for the team in Saudi Arabia. The paper reveals details of a leaked email to illustrate the point. The email was allegedly sent on on 29 May, two weeks before the FIA announced the three successful new teams.

This is part of what looks like quite a systematic attack on Donnelly, following on from the stories about him lobbying teams in Turkey, particularly Ross Brawn’s to leave FOTA’s proposed breakaway and sign up to the FIA world championship.

It would appear that the tactic is both to undermine Donnelly and his FIA role by alleging conflicts of interest and possibly to force an enquiry into the process by which the entries for 2010 were made, with a view to getting the process re-run.
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Full article

:rolleyes:
 
Hitler? He got things done, says Formula One chief Bernie Ecclestone

Bernie Ecclestone, the Formula One chief, said yesterday that he preferred totalitarian regimes to democracies and praised Adolf Hitler for his ability to "get things done".

In an outspoken interview with The Times, the 78-year-old billionaire chastised contemporary politicians for their weakness and extolled the virtues of strong leadership.

Mr Ecclestone said: "In a lot of ways, terrible to say this I suppose, but apart from the fact that Hitler got taken away and persuaded to do things that I have no idea whether he wanted to do or not, he was in the way that he could command a lot of people, able to get things done.

"In the end he got lost, so he wasn’t a very good dictator because either he had all these things and knew what was going on and insisted, or he just went along with it . . . so either way he wasn’t a dictator." He also rounded on democracy, claiming that "it hasn’t done a lot of good for many countries — including this one [Britain]".

Instead, Mr Ecclestone endorsed the concept of a government based on tyranny.

...
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6633340.ece


It appears that it's not only Mr. Mosley with a "thing" for Nazism. Utterly disgusting.
 
BoyBach said:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6633340.ece


It appears that it's not only Mr. Mosley with a "thing" for Nazism. Utterly disgusting.
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Your article is perhaps linked to my one above. The rumours of a smear campaign against the FIA in order for FOTA to get the running of the application process again (Prodrive, non?) seem strong.

On a side note, a better example for Max Moseley would be a comparison we can all relate to here: Steve Jobs. an unusual business model, cult of the leader and yet simultaneously a dictator and a visionary.
 
Free P.R. lessons for anyone interested:
1. Never compliment Hitler.
2. Never publicly call your counterparts "loonies"...
3. If you're painting yourself as being "the nice ones", don't claim you ousted the previous incumbent. Especially not in a "na na nanana, we won!" way.

Thanks goes to:
bartelby
MOFS
 
More news on problems ahead for 2010 ...

autosport.com said:
The Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) walked out of a technical meeting with the FIA about future rules on Wednesday, renewing doubts about the strength of the recent peace deal. The FIA held one of its regular Technical Working Group meetings at the Nurburgring to make moves on finalising F1 rules, following agreement to scrap controversial budget cap regulations.

The meeting included representatives from all the current teams, plus new outfits US F1, Campos Meta and Manor Grand Prix.

Some progress was made in terms of agreeing to scrap the specific budget cap rules introduced on April 29. However, the teams could not agree on a minimum weight limit for 2010, and there had also not been a sign-off of the legally binding agreement to reduce costs.

Of most interest, though, just a day after AUTOSPORT revealed that FOTA had been told that it could not finalise rules without agreement from non-member teams, the eight outfits involved in the organisation left the meeting when asked to provide input on further rule changes it hoped to see in place.

A statement from the FIA, detailing the meeting, said: "Following the decision of the World Council on 24 June to revert to the pre-29 April version of the 2010 F1 Sporting and Technical Regulations, the FIA today met the teams which have entered the 2010 Championship to seek their agreement to these changes.

"All changes have now been agreed subject only to the maintenance of the minimum weight at 620 kg and the signing of a legally binding agreement between all the teams competing in 2010 to reduce costs to the level of the early 1990s within two years, as promised by the FOTA representative in Paris on 24 June. The eight FOTA teams were invited to attend the meeting to discuss their further proposals for 2010. Unfortunately no discussion was possible because FOTA walked out of the meeting."

The decision by FOTA to walk out of the meeting has not yet been explained, but it has renewed fears that there is still major differences about its path for the future and the FIA's.
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Strange. Car weights? The weights were increased to allow larger drivers (Kubica, Webber) to use KERS – I wonder what's irked them?
 
Wow this is like a PTA meeting.
Hours upon hours of ridiculous solutions to minor problems.

These people are worse than a knitting circle. Both FOTA and the FIA.

They should make a reality show about this and put it on Fox.
 
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