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:eek:

United's defensive performance today demonstrated just how important Ferdinand and Vidic are for Fergie's team. United created enough chances to win the game (Berbatov's shot had Reina beat), had their two excellent starting center backs been there to keep a clean sheet. But without them they were always going to be in trouble.

A very strong performance from Liverpool, and three absolutely classic Dirk Kuyt goals - not so much technique as hard work and good positioning. Suarez was very impressive today. He's a different kind of player from Torres but he shows huge promise. I think Dalgish's task was very simple - apply pressure to United's scratch defense - and he did just that. A huge result for Liverpool in terms of boosting morale, and a huge result for Arsenal in the title race.

Both Carragher and Raphael could have been sent off, Dowd chose not to do so and the best you could say about those decisions was that he was consistent. But after watching them in slo-mo you wonder how they stayed on the pitch.

Wanted; one midfield. Job description; successful candidates are expected to protect the defence, supply the attackers, and may be required to chip in with the odd goal or two. If this is you, please contact Manchester United.

The defence has been covering the midfield and weren't too bad today, it's just the midfield is nonexistent - the decline has been going on for years. The world and his wife can see it. For some reason Ferguson won't deal with the obvious; much like Wenger and his dithering re a world class striker, commanding centre-back, and established top keeper - van Persie is in and out, and Vermaelen is out. The Manchester United midfield lacks drive and ball winners; his behaviour to one side, buying Joey Barton in January might have done the job re the league in the short term. Currently, Arsenal seem more capable than Manchester United with regard to the problems the teams face.

A great piece of play by Suarez - naughty hair pulling though, and good goal sniffing by Kuyt. It would have taken the dismissal of four Liverpool players to even the game. Rafael doesn't happen if Carragher goes, and nor does Rodriguez's unpunished stamp. Think I can make out Lord Blackadder's grin from here.

Referees, can't live with them, can't ... Richards' tackle, Tevez lashing out just before being substituted, Clattenburg, Arshavin and Arshavin ... Still, OllyW will be happy.:rolleyes:

Then there is the disaster that is Fantasy Football.:eek:

Edit - took so long to post - Liverpool's defence; they seem more organised and are packing the box.

Manchester United miss Hargreaves more than they miss Ronaldo.

Cheers,
OW
 
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A great piece of play by Suarez - naughty hair pulling though, and good goal sniffing by Kuyt. It would have taken the dismissal of four Liverpool players to even the game. Rafael doesn't happen if Carragher goes, and nor does Rodriguez's unpunished stamp. Think I can make out Lord Blackadder's grin from here.

Carragher's hack on Nani was a clear sending off, but I'm not sure I agree about the further fouls - there's no love lost between the clubs, and even if Carra goes tackles will be flying in. But you're right that seeing a player avoid a red for a bad tackle usually just makes tempers flare even further. Dowd got the big calls wrong for the most part.

Then there is the disaster that is Fantasy Football.:eek:

I actually went up a position this weekend, but my squad is in serious need of an overhaul. Still, no matter what I do, I seemed cursed to wallow in eternal midtable-ness.

Edit - took so long to post - Liverpool's defence; they seem more organised and are packing the box.

Manchester United miss Hargreaves more than they miss Ronaldo.

That's a good point. Ferguson obviously placed a lot of faith in Hargreaves since he was so patient with those persistent injuries, and I think that the loss of both Hargreaves and Ronaldo over the last couple seasons has given Ferguson problems in midfield that he has never really solved. I shudder to think what United would be doing in the league right now if they had both Ronaldo and Hargreaves.

As for Liverpool's defense, I feel like we have a lot of 'nearly there' players, but no huge stars. Carragher is losing his sharpness, and has to rely on his positioning to be effective. When caught out, he resorts (like EBJT and other aging center backs) to the scything tackles opponents know and hate. Most of them have put in very good performances at times, but inconsistency has been a big problem. Johnson is skilled at going forward, but he needs lots of protection from the midfield. I feel like we need a top young center back to really solidify the defense.
 
Liverpool win 1-0. It'll be a game of tactics by the managers which I reckon Dalglish is slightly better at than Ferguson.

Sometimes my visions aren't clear to me. Liverpool 1... 1 scorer of all three goals...

So cool, I'm 100% for predicting all three of Man Utd's losses. Of course, with a lot of help from the Manager of the Month award which has totally derailed their campaign. Seriously - undefeated for a whole season, hand Fergie that award and bang, bang, bang, three losses from five.

Wenger's got it now, which is not good - but good that the Bolton match is the only other one this month after the Sunderland one.

I think Dalgish's task was very simple - apply pressure to United's scratch defense - and he did just that.

Yup, what I said, a game of tactics. Kenny plays to his opponents. Like he did against Chelsea (dunno what happened at West Ham). As opposed to say a Wenger or Guardiola who always play the same way regardless of opponents.

Spaking of which... this is the make or break week for Arsenal - the toughest opponents of all in both the CL and FA Cup so out of both, or still in one or both come Sunday? The pressure's on with these two matches in one week, can my nerves handle it!
 
In a way, the next league match for Liverpool (and to a lesser extent the Europa League match against Braga) is even more important because we need to be able to perform the way we did against United in every game. If we maintain the form for the rest of the season, we'll make a serious stab at the Europa League final and put more pressure on the 4th-6th-placed league spots.

Spaking of which... this is the make or break week for Arsenal - the toughest opponents of all in both the CL and FA Cup so out of both, or still in one or both come Sunday? The pressure's on with these two matches in one week, can my nerves handle it!

If I were a gunner, I would really be up for the Barca game and harbor dreams of European glory.

But, looking on as a neutral, I think this is a bridge too far for Arsenal. Wenger needs to hope they can avoid any injuries, especially to the glass sculpture of a man that is RVP. Wenger needs a healthy squad for the league run-in and a shot at the FA Cup.

Still, I think it promises to be a good game.
 
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If I were a gunner, I would really be up for the Barca game and harbor dreams of European glory.

But, looking on as a neutral, I think this is a bridge too far for Arsenal. Wenger needs to hope they can avoid any injuries, especially to the glass sculpture of a man that is RVP. Wenger needs a healthy squad for the league run-in and a shot at the FA Cup.

Still, I think it promises to be a good game.
Chatting to a Gooner mate of mine earlier. He said he doesn't mind getting knocked out by Barca so long as it's not a humiliating defeat, as he'd rather they win the league, and with the injuries they've been getting, they can't afford to play too many games :)
 
Yeah, that is what I'm getting from Arsenal supporters. I think Wenger has a team that is capable of winning big silverware this season - but they aren't strong enough to win every competition they are in right now. If they spread themselves too thin they will lose everything.

I think the Premier League should be Arsenal's primary goal. They need to beat Spurs when they play their game in hand. That match is even more important, in my opinion, than the FA cup match.

I still think Man U is going to stumble into both the league title and the FA Cup, but I would not be shocked if Arsenal took one, the other or both.
 
The lack of Song, Walcott, and if they play, an unfit RVP and Fab makes it a big ask IMHO. We will be playing way below our full strength.

The positive is all these names are not far away from return (ditto with Vermaelen i'd guess) so we will have a full squad in the late, run-in stages of the league.
 
We'll see. On paper Arsenal look to have an advantage, but United have just won far too many of these kinds of matches for them to be anything but favorites in my mind till proven otherwise.
 
Chatting to a Gooner mate of mine earlier. He said he doesn't mind getting knocked out by Barca so long as it's not a humiliating defeat, as he'd rather they win the league, and with the injuries they've been getting, they can't afford to play too many games :)

I'm quietly confident. Despite being knocked out by Barca twice before in the '06 final and again last year, one thing Arsenal have always managed (even when down to ten men) is to score against Barca.

Unlike last year, Barca's 2 away goals meant Bendtner's opener really only had Barca needing one goal for total victory (the other 3 were just icing) so they were never really under much pressure. But things are so much different now! This time that exact same Bendtner goal would have Barca instead under enormous pressure to chase not one but three goals for a win. Which means no patient build-up passing it a thousand times until they glimpse an opening, so it will throw Barca off their natural game. Plus unlike last time as well, Arsenal can sit back in full-on defence and wait for the counter... so a second Arsenal goal..

Yup, despite Pep's public show of confidence (bring van Persie! bring Walcott!), he knows that Arsenal have the advantage this time and it's Barca under enormous pressure not to concede. But they know they will. They know Arsenal can and will will score against them. Have done in all previous four encounters. So even more pressure. I predict Arsenal to go through with a 2-2 draw.
 
I forget that Puyol and Pique are out and they'll be using a makeshift defence of Abidal and Busquets. I would kill to have Walcott on the field but i guess Arshavin, Nasri and Wilshere will have to suffice.
 
I forget that Puyol and Pique are out and they'll be using a makeshift defence of Abidal and Busquets. I would kill to have Walcott on the field but i guess Arshavin, Nasri and Wilshere will have to suffice.

Yes, should be interesting with Barcelona reserve Wilshere cleared to play.:)

by awmazz - ...Plus unlike last time as well, Arsenal can sit back in full-on defence and wait for the counter... so a second Arsenal goal...

That defence? How long can they sit back? Edit - as Fizzoid points out.

Cheers,
OW
 
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by awmazz - ...Plus unlike last time as well, Arsenal can sit back in full-on defence and wait for the counter... so a second Arsenal goal...

Well, not ten men behind the ball if that's what you're thinking. I'm just saying not all-out desperate attack leaving gaps like they did with the Messi mess. Not being desperate means they can take their time and hold formation to soak up the pressure. Basically exactly what they did in the first leg.

Besides, it's not like Arsenal have to defend for the full 90 minutes anyway. Judging from both first legs, they only need to hold up for 60 minutes before Barca are knackered. That's why Walcott was so effective as a sub that first leg last time.:D
 
Fizzoid - anger and a short burst of endorphins got the better of Nani, then realisation and pain kicked in. He isn't too happy about the 'All Quiet On The North Western Front' thing. But yeah, if he didn't want an Oscar every time he is kicked/isn't kicked ...

awmazz - Barcelona did appear to fade around the hour mark. Re Arsenal soaking up pressure, let's hope they have learnt from Birmingham City (whistling smilie goes here).

Cheers,
OW
 
I've lifted some pre-match trivia from the web:

1) Messi has only scored in 2 of his 14 CL matches against English opposition - four in the 4-1 win against Arsenal and one in the 2-0 final win against Man Utd. The other 12 games he failed to score at all.

2) Both sides have scored in all six of Arsenal v Barcelona matches in the CL.

3) Arsenal have lost 5 of their last 6 away games in the CL. Have not kept a clean sheet in the last 15 away games in the CL. Yikes!

But that's okay, if they lose this one 3-2. :cool:

4) Barcelona have won all of their last 7 home games in the CL. Aggregate score of 20-2. Gulp!

But that's okay, because if (2) holds true to win this tie they'll have to actually perform even better than that scoring average, believe it or not.

5) Liverpool are the only English club to have ever beaten Barcelona at the Nou Camp.

6) In all four of their encounters excluding draws, the side which scored first lost. Astonishing!

7) Arsenal has the most prolific attack in this season's CL so far with 20 goals.

8) 5 of Barcelona's 15 goals (ie one in three) in this season's CL have come from corners, ie, set pieces not their famous open play.

In a nutshell, Arsenal winning away at Barcelona by scoring first and keeping a clean sheet against corners appears to be against the odds.
 
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Well, it promises to be quite the match tonight for sure — say what you like about them, but both teams know how to play. :cool:

I'm going to be bold though and pick a winner — I reckon we have what it takes to beat Burnley.

Any other decent matches on tonight?
 
Arsenal are not good enough in defense to sit back. If they hope to beat Barcelona they must attack and maintain possession the best they can.

If RVP is 50/50 I don't think Wenger should play him. Save him for the league.

Any other decent matches on tonight?

Just some namby-pamby, tippy-tappy do in Spain without any proper tackles, long balls or Rory Delap.
 
I can't really blame Wenger. Van Persie is willing to injure himself to score a goal and take more gamble shots. Bendtner/Chamakh in contrast aren't and often look for the 'pretty goals' or over pass or take one too many touches. Put it this way if Bendtner/Chamakh played the first leg i don't think we would've done as well as we did. Van Persie is simply more potent.

And if we have any hope of doing well in the Nou Camp we need everything we can get. Also his fitness must actually have been somewhat decent for Wenger to have included him.

On another note, I can't bear to watch the match...too much anxiety. I think i'm gonna watch House or something instead and check scores later
 
One thing Barca does best is bustle as a team and win the ball back. They simply don't sit and wait for the other team to play it.

40 minutes gone so far and Arsenal defending 11 men behind the ball and virtually zero possession - haven't conceded contrary to all the 'must attack' advice. How fit are the Arsenal defenders to keep this up?

Interesting stat some guy from America posted in to Sky before the game - with Djourou in defence the time between conceding a goal is every 319 minutes, without him it's every 54 mins. His interception of Messi is why I think.

Update - argh, right on halftime. Fabregas finally does something, what was he thinking?

Could be worse, could be 1-0 down to Burnley. ;)
 
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