2011 17" MBP supports 6Gbps SATA

[idea_hamster]

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Wow. Just wow.

 

[darwin022]

Forget about the Crucial C300 SSD in a MacBook. If you check out the Crucial forum you find lots of entries about C300 problems. See: http://www.forum.crucial.com/t5/for...cation=Node:ssd&q=macbook+pro+i7#message-list

The 6Gbps mode also has problems in PCs under Windows. The Firmware 006 upgrade introduced the stuttering problem, which can be experienced with all operating systems. OWC is a much better choice.

I've had my C300 since uh.... the first batch (oops, that's how I roll). It has been great in my i7 930 gaming rig for almost a year now- on firmware rev 0001. I just updated to 0006 today, hopefully when I throw it back in the gaming rig and re-Windows it, it'll still be as reliable as it had been.

That said, I gave up on the C300 for now, wanted to actually play with the new Macbook Pro, vs. Continually installing and installing and installing and waiting for it to fail again. I'll play around with it more in the second slot under 3Gbps to see if I can get it working reliably, then swap it over.

Have to say though, the 240GB OWC that I got for it is a pretty nice drive (at the moment). It is encrypting right now, once that's done, I'm going to run some more benchmarks, then install software, migrate data, etc.

Sorry to disappoint with the results of the 6Gbps testing for now. It appears as though there is a limitation somewhere. Hopefully this can be fixed quickly with either a driver update or firmware update.

 

[Bigmacduck]

Don't upgrade C300 to FW 006 - BIG mistake!!

I've had my C300 since uh.... the first batch (oops, that's how I roll). It has been great in my i7 930 gaming rig for almost a year now- on firmware rev 0001. I just updated to 0006 today, hopefully when I throw it back in the gaming rig and re-Windows it, it'll still be as reliable as it had been.

I am sorry to say, but you most probably made a mistake upgrading to Firmware 006. There is a sticky tread (16600 Views / 640 replies) on the crucial forum about the flawed 006 FW: http://www.forum.crucial.com/t5/Sol...eries-Firmware-Version-006-Release/td-p/24093

Unfortunately there is no way to downgrade from 006 or you will brick your drive.

I bought a second C300 in January and that piece of crap came with 006 already installed. I use it now in an external SATA drive case for backups. 🙁

 

[darwin022]

I am sorry to say, but you most probably made a mistake upgrading to Firmware 006. There is a sticky tread (16600 Views / 640 replies) on the crucial forum about the flawed 006 FW: http://www.forum.crucial.com/t5/Sol...eries-Firmware-Version-006-Release/td-p/24093

Unfortunately there is no way to downgrade from 006 or you will brick your drive.

I bought a second C300 in January and that piece of crap came with 006 already installed. I use it now in an external SATA drive case for backups. 🙁

Oh well. It generally lives in a gaming box anyway, so if the drive dies and I lose non-backed up saved games... oh well, RMA and get a replacement. Also, with regards to the link you posted and Macbooks/macbook pro's, most of those articles were from previous generation MBPs. It was a known issue that the C300 performance takes a dive when you put one on SATA II/3Gbps. That's why I went with an OWC for my 2010 Mac Pro instead.

As soon as you get the C300 on a decent SATA III controller though, it flies. Or at least did on Firmware 001. We'll see how it goes now.

 

[Nein01]

Ok so just to be clear, the OP's testing has indicated that there was a problem with the drive's firmware, not the MBP sata III port?

 

[darwin022]

Ok so just to be clear, the OP's testing has indicated that there was a problem with the drive's firmware, not the MBP sata III port?

No, I got the same results with firmware 001 and 006. The drive is being reported as connected at 6Gbps but performance is all over the place, mostly at 'the computer is hung.'

Going to test more this weekend.

 

[Bigmacduck]

Have to say though, the 240GB OWC that I got for it is a pretty nice drive (at the moment). It is encrypting right now, once that's done, I'm going to run ...

@darwin022 What product are you using for drive encryption? I learned that there are big differences between SSD and HDD when it comes to encryption performance.

I currently use FileVault in OS X and Bitlocker on the Bootcamp Win 7 partition. I am looking for a fast (on SSD) full drive encryption on the OS X partition.

 

[macduke]

- Install a stripped down build (no printers, languages, additional software, etc.) on the C300, SATA III (Slot 0) tomorrow morning. Benchmark. Post results
- Install the same stripped down build on the OWC SSD (SATA II) in slot 0 when it arrives (theoretically before 10:30am). Benchmark. Post results

Excuse me for sounding like a noob (although I'm fairly computer savvy), but how exactly does one go about stripping down the OS for this purpose? I mainly want to save disk space on my 128GB SSD. You don't have to explain the whole process if you don't want to, but if anyone knows a solid, easy to follow link that would be great. I imagine it involves a lot of terminal?

 

[Eastend]

Excuse me for sounding like a noob (although I'm fairly computer savvy), but how exactly does one go about stripping down the OS for this purpose? I mainly want to save disk space on my 128GB SSD. You don't have to explain the whole process if you don't want to, but if anyone knows a solid, easy to follow link that would be great. I imagine it involves a lot of terminal?

Read this link, also explains how to do it. You'll save lot's of space.

http://chris.pirillo.com/how-to-move-the-home-folder-in-os-x-and-why/

 

[zippys]

I just read a description of the Intel chipset flaw here:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20030070-64.html

Apparently the problem only affects SATA ports 2-5 and not 0-1. Are you guys saying the ODD is connected to port 2,3,4 or 5 instead of 0 or 1?

Also, even if Apple is shipping MBPs right now with the faulty chipsets, wouldn't they get replaced eventually, so if you wait a few months to get a MBP, you shouldn't have a problem?

This is correct. Only SATA III ports are affected and only 2-5. EVERY Sandybridge chip was affected. This happened just before Feb. 1 and, initially, Intel said they would recall every Sandybridge chip made. 3-4 days later they said that they would allow resellers to use the flawed Sandybridge chips if they didnt use SATA ports 2-5. This would allow you to use a SATA III drive and an optical drive with no problems (no eSATA).

Now, every reseller that I know that had products that used the affected ports have only JUST started shipping their product again (or havent at all). I find it suspicious that somehow Apple had enough MBPs with the new, unaffected chips to stock store shelfs AND enough to sell online. Intel only started SHIPPING new chips to resellers on Feb. 14 so somehow in 11 days they replaced the chips on all their motherboards and got them to stores.

Now, I don't think Apple needs the new chips since they probably aren't using the unaffected ports. I just wanted to point out that there is a reason why Apple was able to release their new MBPs so fast.

 

[Armada2]

Sorry for being a noob here i am new

but reading the thread im confused to what everyone is saying as they go off topic which ssd is better.

- anyway are the new macbook pro '11 are they 3Gbps SATA or 6Gbps? even tho thread title says 6Gb seems the OP is having hard time getting to that?

- is 0 port 6Gbps and the rest 3Gbps?

- is it the same for a 15inch macbook pro?

- are apple ssd's 3Gbps max?

- and what is the guarantee that these new Vertex 3 everyone is going on about be able to work in the new macbook pros? and if the max is 3Gbps that OS X allows how is it going to use its full potential?

Im confused please help 🙁

 

[menez]

Same thing with my 13 inch... also supports SATA III

 

[idea_hamster]

- are the new macbook pro '11 are they 3Gbps SATA or 6Gbps? even tho thread title says 6Gb seems the OP is having hard time getting to that?

The Intel chipset has 2 6Gbps ports and 4 3Gbps ports. Apple has stated that they did not use any early flawed chipsets, so all of these ports are available for Apple to use. The hard drive in the new MBP is hooked up to a 6Gbps port.

- is 0 port 6Gbps and the rest 3Gbps?

Ports 0 and 1 are 6Gbps and ports 2-5 are 3Gbps.

- is it the same for a 15inch macbook pro?

Yes.

- are apple ssd's 3Gbps max?

Yes.

- and what is the guarantee that these new Vertex 3 everyone is going on about be able to work in the new macbook pros?

SATA III is a set industry standard, so the Vertex 3 should work when it comes out. However, as we have seen, it's not so simple -- this is why the OP was trying it out with his SATA III C300.

It's important to note, however, that the C300 came out at the bleeding edge of SATA III implementation, so they are one of the guinea pigs for the rest of the SSD industry.

if the max is 3Gbps that OS X allows how is it going to use its full potential?

The regular HD bay should allow 6Gbps. We still do not know how the optical drive is connected -- possibly to a SATA II connection, but hopefully not.

Im confused please help 🙁

Hope this helps! 🙂

 

[Armada2]

Nice one mate! i understand it now 😀

 

[Armada2]

Another Question 🙂

My dilemma is buying top end 15" macbook pro and it will have SSD but don't know whether go for 128GB or 256? and if buying 3rd party then would have to find someone to install it (which will be hard) especially if the 3rd party SSD goes down then would have to swap it back for Apple to look at. (which sounds more of a hassle)


Not sure what the write and read speeds are, for the SSD's Apple use, but is there a major difference noticed compared to Vertex 3 or 3rd party SSD's, if im going to be using it for playing computer games and 2D/3D modeling software and bootcamp.

Is it just for loading times on games? and faster boot up times than Apple SSD? which 14 secs is good enough for me on macbook air's.

and is Vertex 3 for the fast hardcore fans who want the fastest computer?


As i already have 4 external hard drives USB2, i will wait for a company to build a thunderbolt box to convert them for the extra speed.

 

[idea_hamster]

The benefits to buying a SSD as an option from Apple are generally that (1) it's already installed, (2) it's covered by your Apple warranty and AppleCare if you buy it, so if you have problems, you can just go to Apple, and (3) you can be confident that the drive works well with your MBP.

The drawbacks are generally that (1) you pay a significant premium -- usually more that double -- compared to similar (or even the exact same) part bought aftermarket, (2) you have to install yourself, and (3) if you have a problem (bad RAM stick, early HD failure) you have to go to that manufacturer rather than Apple.

Installing a new drive isn't that difficult -- Apple considers it a user-serviceable part and they have directions on their site. Better yet, ifixit.com has lots of guides on how to do all these things as well as selling the less common tools you may need.

Regarding SSDs, however, there have been some concerns voiced that the types that Apple sells (made by Samsung) are more susceptible to performance drop-off over time than other SSDs that use a SandForce controller, like OCZ's models, including the Vertex line.

Take a look at the ifixit site and consider saving some $$.

Also, that Vertex 3 was just reviewed at anandtech.com and is expected to be an absolute monster of a drive -- nothing that an Apple-bought SATA II drive can even hope to match.

 

[magbarn]

The benefits to buying a SSD as an option from Apple are generally that (1) it's already installed, (2) it's covered by your Apple warranty and AppleCare if you buy it, so if you have problems, you can just go to Apple, and (3) you can be confident that the drive works well with your MBP.

The drawbacks are generally that (1) you pay a significant premium -- usually more that double -- compared to similar (or even the exact same) part bought aftermarket, (2) you have to install yourself, and (3) if you have a problem (bad RAM stick, early HD failure) you have to go to that manufacturer rather than Apple.

Installing a new drive isn't that difficult -- Apple considers it a user-serviceable part and they have directions on their site. Better yet, ifixit.com has lots of guides on how to do all these things as well as selling the less common tools you may need.

Regarding SSDs, however, there have been some concerns voiced that the types that Apple sells (made by Samsung) are more susceptible to performance drop-off over time than other SSDs that use a SandForce controller, like OCZ's models, including the Vertex line.

Take a look at the ifixit site and consider saving some $$.

Also, that Vertex 3 was just reviewed at anandtech.com and is expected to be an absolute monster of a drive -- nothing that an Apple-bought SATA II drive can even hope to match.

Believe it or not, the 128gb SSD option is actually decent for $100. That's IF you consider the 750gb 5400 rpm a 'throw-away' drive in the top line 15 MBP.

 

[Armada2]

Thanks for the reply Hamster, much appreciated.

but what does a faster SSD (Vertex 3, OCZ models) achieve compared to an Apple SSD? in games and 3D modeling? just faster (a couple of seconds shorter) in loading?

 

[idea_hamster]

Believe it or not, the 128gb SSD option is actually decent for $100. That's IF you consider the 750gb 5400 rpm a 'throw-away' drive in the top line 15 MBP.

That's actually true -- I forgot that they had cut the price of this and you're right that this isn't a bad price.

Personally, I sort of stopped paying full attention when Anand's reviews of Apple's CTO SSDs showed how susceptible they were to performance loss, actually coming in slower than a spinning drive in some tests. (I know -- those tests are not in any way "real life" but, still.)

With the current ones only supporting 3Gb/s, I'm just waiting. But you are correct that this CTO option is no longer a bad buy.

[W]hat does a faster SSD (Vertex 3, OCZ models) achieve compared to an Apple SSD? in games and 3D modeling? just faster (a couple of seconds shorter) in loading?

Any kind of function that depends on HD read times will improve. That does include start-up times for system and programs, but also things like sleep and wake-up times, application switching whenever RAM has been paged out to the drive, and things like this.

For gaming, I probably shouldn't talk, since I haven't played a computer game since Lemmings in 1996, but I would think that if there are scene shifts where the computer has to load a new play area or stage, those load times will be significantly reduced. Actual game play shouldn't be too affected otherwise.

And it actually won't do much for 3D modeling if you're talking about rendering scenes -- this is much more processor- and GPU-intensive.

 

[tjb1]

Here are results for Mid 2010 i7 2.66 15" mbp using a 120gb OWC Mercury Extreme Pro SSD with 8gb of ram. Seems the drives are very close but the new ones are using ram better...and of course the cpu is faster.

Results	302.34	
	System Info		
		Xbench Version		1.3
		System Version		10.6.6 (10J567)
		Physical RAM		8192 MB
		Model		MacBookPro6,2
		Drive Type		OWC Mercury Extreme Pro SSD
	CPU Test	219.44	
		GCD Loop	341.18	17.98 Mops/sec
		Floating Point Basic	194.30	4.62 Gflop/sec
		vecLib FFT	129.02	4.26 Gflop/sec
		Floating Point Library	416.72	72.56 Mops/sec
	Thread Test	528.37	
		Computation	532.57	10.79 Mops/sec, 4 threads
		Lock Contention	524.24	22.55 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
	Memory Test	330.98	
		System	379.39	
			Allocate	586.19	2.15 Malloc/sec
			Fill	229.55	11161.30 MB/sec
			Copy	541.96	11193.86 MB/sec
		Stream	293.52	
			Copy	295.67	6106.91 MB/sec
			Scale	291.54	6023.05 MB/sec
			Add	296.45	6314.94 MB/sec
			Triad	290.53	6215.13 MB/sec
	Quartz Graphics Test	261.29	
		Line	223.42	14.87 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
		Rectangle	314.27	93.83 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
		Circle	248.52	20.26 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
		Bezier	261.71	6.60 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
		Text	275.22	17.22 Kchars/sec
	OpenGL Graphics Test	250.21	
		Spinning Squares	250.21	317.40 frames/sec
	User Interface Test	378.85	
		Elements	378.85	1.74 Krefresh/sec
	Disk Test	310.71	
		Sequential	186.34	
			Uncached Write	260.39	159.88 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	262.08	148.28 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	91.74	26.85 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	343.61	172.70 MB/sec [256K blocks]
		Random	934.31	
			Uncached Write	1282.40	135.76 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	477.06	152.73 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	2961.45	20.99 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	936.67	173.81 MB/sec [256K blocks]

 

[proboscisjoe]

In fact...

Another Question 🙂

My dilemma is buying top end 15" macbook pro and it will have SSD but don't know whether go for 128GB or 256? and if buying 3rd party then would have to find someone to install it (which will be hard) especially if the 3rd party SSD goes down then would have to swap it back for Apple to look at. (which sounds more of a hassle)

It seems, having read the User Guide for the MBPs posted on Apple's support site yesterday, that the RAM and HD are user accessible and can easily be replaced. You need only a Phillips screwdriver.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/MacBook_Pro_15inch_Early2011.pdf

 

[Ace134blue]

SATA III is a set industry standard, so the Vertex 3 should work when it comes out. However, as we have seen, it's not so simple -- this is why the OP was trying it out with his SATA III C300.

Vertex 3 is already out. There are 2 versions, the standard and the PRO version(faster by 10% and can take 5x more NAND writes). Vertex 3 is fasst and is Sata 3. Read/write are both over 500MB/s

 

[idea_hamster]

Vertex 3 is already out. There are 2 versions, the standard and the PRO version(faster by 10% and can take 5x more NAND writes). Vertex 3 is fasst and is Sata 3. Read/write are both over 500MB/s

I thought they were only released to reviewers for testing -- the one Anandtech.com got didn't even have branding on the case.

If you've got a link to where I can buy one, please do share! I've got funds standing by for a V3 -- and it seems that the data transfer rate of cash in the bank is just dreadful! 😉

 

[subzero]

Really interested in this thread as well. My 15" will arrive late next week hopefully and I am playing with the idea of buying two SSD's, but I will definitely change that plan if the ODD is connected to SATA2.

 

[axu539]

Really interested in this thread as well. My 15" will arrive late next week hopefully and I am playing with the idea of buying two SSD's, but I will definitely change that plan if the ODD is connected to SATA2.

At some point, the insane of SSDs starts reaching the point of diminishing returns. I'm going to stick dual SSDs into my MBP whether or not the ODD is connected to SATA II. I plan to run OS X off one and Windows 7 off the other. For me, at least, I probably won't be able to see the difference in speed that SATA III offers.

That being said, I MIGHT eventually sell one of my SSDs and upgrade to a SATA III drive if they are cost-effective. ..purely for bragging rights and the other tech improvements that come with newer SSDs (better garbage collection, better wear leveling, etc).