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2011-2012 NBA Season Thread
- Thread starter Queen of Spades
- Start date
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Yup. As of this minute, Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol are still on the Lakers. The Kardashian's are breathing a sigh of relief as we speak.
Well, we will get CP3 back or eventually and Howard too 
unless the NBA places more restrictions and Stern is a party pooper
Viva Los Lakers!
unless the NBA places more restrictions and Stern is a party pooperViva Los Lakers!
Apparently D. Howard going to the Nets.. trade is arranged (at his request!) and should be completed soon.
Huh...?
Huh...?
Apparently D. Howard going to the Nets.. trade is arranged (at his request!) and should be completed soon.
Huh...?
I was a little perplexed about that as well. But it makes some sense...they're moving to Brooklyn soon, Jay-Z owns it....He could be the face of a franchise that is redefining itself...and it doesn't hurt to play in NY
Yeah, it makes sense but I really think he's making the wrong decision if he wants championships or a "successful" career. He apparently talked extensively with D. Williams throughout the lockout regarding working with him. I think the Brooklyn aspect is a driving factor for him here.
A move to Brooklyn, the Jay-Z connection, along with Howard and Williams (assuming he stays), is prime for drawing more talent for the team. The team is certainly going to do everything it takes to bring a winning team to Brooklyn. And damn...getting Howard would be a heck of a start.
Howard to LA or the Nets would both be good for Howard. If he plays with the Lakers, then he'll be playing with Paul (maybe?) and Kobe. He STILL won't have any help inside (assuming Bynum is part of the trade to get Howard), and Kobe isn't the player he used to be. Also, I don't know if Howard is going to enjoy playing with someone like Kobe.
If Howard plays in NJ, he still won't be on a winner. He'll play for a Russian billionaire, but there's a salary cap in the NBA, and they won't have a lot of cap space for support players.
Having said that, the Magic have always been committed to winning. Most of the deals and signings their GM (Smith?) has made in the past has made a lot of sense to help the team. Some of them just didn't work out.
If Howard plays in NJ, he still won't be on a winner. He'll play for a Russian billionaire, but there's a salary cap in the NBA, and they won't have a lot of cap space for support players.
Having said that, the Magic have always been committed to winning. Most of the deals and signings their GM (Smith?) has made in the past has made a lot of sense to help the team. Some of them just didn't work out.
Please stop. The Timberwolves took a worse deal in the Garnett trade than what the Lakers were offering because McHale wanted to help the Celtics. So let's not pretend that the league favors the Lakers on every deal.
As a Lakers fan, I'm not even sure how I feel about the trade being cancelled. Part of me thinks that since Paul has an iffy knee and Kobe has never played with a true point guard before (at least not in the NBA), a short season might not be a good time to try to make all of that work. And with the new coaching staff and the scrapping of the Triangle offense, there's no telling what kinds of chaos could happen. It's possible that the Lakers are better off without him, not that we'll ever know.
One thing I think is pretty screwy though: claims that the Lakers would be getting Chris Paul for free. Seriously? Pau Gasol is one of the three most valuable big men in the league and Odom is the reigning Sixth Man of the Year. This isn't chump change. There's no retired Aaron McKie tossed in so that the salary numbers will work like with the Pau trade.
If this trade isn't allowed, it makes you wonder what trade will eventually happen. Are the Lakers the only team that the other owners will block? At this point would it be reasonable to allow a trade to the Mavericks or Celtics? I say no. What do you want to bet that the Hornets end up with a worse deal than this one? Since the Hornets are owned by the league (which is a ridiculous conflict of interest), David Stern is bizarrely reducing the value of the franchise while trying to sell it.
I also fail to see how the new CBA improved competitive balance a single iota. Couldn't imagine being a team of a small market team. But I will admit that right now, I am really, really, really bitter.
The new CBA isn't really about competitive balance. And despite what some people claimed, the lockout wasn't about that either. The lockout and the new CBA are only about one thing: reducing how much the players have to be paid. That's it. There's nothing in the CBA that makes GMs smarter at trading and signing players. Nothing that makes it easier to evaluate player talent. It was never about that.
That was funny.
Apparently D. Howard going to the Nets.. trade is arranged (at his request!) and should be completed soon.
Huh...?
Is he? It sounds like he sent out word that he wants to be traded to the Nets, but I don't know that it's happened yet.
It will be interesting to see how the shortened training camp starts out for the Hornets and Lakers now. Paul wants to leave and thought he was going to, but now has to work alongside teammates that he wanted to leave behind. Gasol and Odom know that the Lakers wanted to get rid of them, but now everyone has to pretend the team wants to keep them. Awkward. This is exactly why the Hornets wanted to trade Paul quickly, to prevent the drawn-out ordeal that Carmelo Anthony and the Nuggets went through last year.
I agree with you. It's hard to know if the owners were telling the truth about their financial losses, but given the threat of a lawsuit where EVERYTHING must be disclosed in discovery, my sense is that the owners were being mostly accurate if slanted in their presentation.
I have zero sympathy for the whining players, and wouldn't have minded losing the entire season. The game and the league have deteriorated significantly.
Not even close to the same thing. The Wolves got Al Jefferson (young all-star, not a soft geezer like Gasol/Odom), Theo Ratliff (expiring contract = $), 3 admittedly average players, Boston's first-round pick, Boston's second-round pick and cash considerations. Hardly a total swindle like when the Lakers picked up Pau Gasol for a pack of gum and a dozen basketballs.
But fine, we can agree to disagree on that one.
I still don't agree with you re: the fairness of this trade. Odom is soft and streaky, Gasol is soft and aging. Both are on the downswing of their career, while Chris Paul is a franchise point guard and a true game changer. You honestly believe that swap is equal? If Paul were on my team, I wouldn't trade him for Gasol and Odom.
The one thing we can agree on is the league is on a slippery slope with this one. Puzzling (though I'm glad for it) that they decided to step in on this trade and not previous heists, but apparently it was at the owners' insistence.
I don't think either of them are soft, but I agree with streaky and aging. But isn't it fair to say that both players would be starters on most teams? That both have been major contributors to championship teams?
The "is the swap equal" question is not really the right question here. The real question is "What better deal can the Hornets get?" The fact that Paul has asked for a trade and says he won't re-sign with the Hornets before becoming a free agent next summer reduces his trade value. Now other teams don't have to offer New Orleans as much for him because they know the Hornets are afraid he'll walk and they'll get nothing for him. By definition then, the Hornets will not get equal value from the trade, just like the Lakers didn't get equal value when Shaq asked to be traded in 2004.
To re-phrase your question then: if the Lakers had Paul already and they were less than a year from losing him for nothing, then yes, Chris Paul for Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom would be worth considering. (Yes, I know that the proposed trade involved Gasol and Odom going to different teams, but that's the swap from the Lakers' point of view.) There may be better deals out there, but maybe there aren't.
At this point, there's no reason to think that the Hornets GM wasn't going for the best deal for Paul he could find. But even if it wasn't, the league better make sure that the real Chris Paul trade leads to an impressive haul for the Hornets. Then Stern could at least claim that the league was acting in the team's best interest. But if it doesn't, then this whole thing will look even more farcical than it already does.
Doesn't this also imply that the league wouldn't let the Lakers trade for Dwight Howard either? That other owners want to make sure that the Lakers don't improve their team? What can the Heat or Celtics get away with these days? Something tells me that no line will be drawn and it will seem very arbitrary.
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And I was not actually arguing that the Garnett trade was equivalent to the Gasol trade. I was saying that the Celtics got Garnett despite making a weaker offer, and that if a non-Celtic were running the Timberwolves' front office at the time, Garnett would have gone to the Lakers instead. The Lakers aren't the only team that gets favoritism.
I think this is the key. After my initial annoyance at the trade, my opinion on the balance of the trade has improved a bit. Because of the Rockets tossing in Luis Scola, Dragic, and Kevin Martin, etc. the Hornets got some useful pieces for a player that didn't want to play there anymore. And yes, I will not argue that Odom is a good player, has contributed to championships, etc. Gasol is obviously the better of the two, but both players are older. Chris Paul is in the prime of his career, a franchise point guard, arguably the best in the entire league. He makes everyone around him better and he's got his career ahead of him. Odom/Gasol's best days are behind them.
Although I suppose if we're to believe Chris Paul, he's entering free agency no matter where he is traded. So then it's essentially a 5-month rental.
No, but it seems the Lakers get the benefit of lopsided deals more often than most.
Interesting pieces today..
-Teams are appealing the CP3 trade. Doubt it'll do anything, though.
-Howard/Nets/Rockets broke rules by meeting with him without the Magic's consent. Magic may file tampering charges that could kill trades to them.
-Tyson Chandler says he is signing with the Knicks, no sign/swap deal either.
-Butler signs with Clippers (3 years, $24M)
-Brandon Roy is retiring due to a career-ending knee injury. I'm sad for him.
-Chalmers is returning to the Heat.
-Teams are appealing the CP3 trade. Doubt it'll do anything, though.
-Howard/Nets/Rockets broke rules by meeting with him without the Magic's consent. Magic may file tampering charges that could kill trades to them.
-Tyson Chandler says he is signing with the Knicks, no sign/swap deal either.
-Butler signs with Clippers (3 years, $24M)
-Brandon Roy is retiring due to a career-ending knee injury. I'm sad for him.
-Chalmers is returning to the Heat.
Really unfortunate about Brandon Roy. Best of luck to him.
Celtics just swapped PF Glen Davis to Orlando for PF Brandon Bass. I admit I'm not too familiar with Brandon Bass. Anyone have any input?
Guess the Commish didn't have a problem with that trade (for the record, while I'm Celtics-fan happy that Paul isn't going to the Lakers, I don't really agree with the veto in principle).
Brandon Bass played for Dallas a few years ago. He was decent, but nothing special. I think he'll be about as effective as Glen "Big Baby" Davis.
Regarding the CP3 trade, I saw an interesting quote on ESPN that was something like: "For some bizarre reason, by denying the CP3 trade Stern is making the league-owned (which in and of itself is odd) Hornets a worse team while trying to sell it."
I think the league really whiffed on the new CBA. By choosing to take some money back from the players, but ultimately relenting on a hard cap, the league is going to become a place where 6 or so teams have a trio of all-stars and the best supporting talent, and the other teams are all putrid and serve only as farm systems.
I don't know how anyone can want to see that happen, even if they're a fan in one of the big/desired markets.
Gilbert Arenas was waived by the Magic under the amnesty clause.
Cavs apparently haven't made a decision to use the clause on Baron Davis, but there has been talk about it.
Man, what's happened to these two guys? I remember when Arenas was in Washington and I thought he was a top tier player. I know he had some injury trouble, but he hardly played and hardly scored (20min/8ppg) in Orlando. And Baron Davis? He single handedly destroyed the Mavs in the 2007 playoffs.
Cavs apparently haven't made a decision to use the clause on Baron Davis, but there has been talk about it.
Man, what's happened to these two guys? I remember when Arenas was in Washington and I thought he was a top tier player. I know he had some injury trouble, but he hardly played and hardly scored (20min/8ppg) in Orlando. And Baron Davis? He single handedly destroyed the Mavs in the 2007 playoffs.
Well, he was always a flake and a selfish player in the Vince Carter mold. Then he got hurt, signed a huge contract anyway, got arrested and suspended. Maybe he just lost confidence or doesn't have it physically anymore?
Signed with the Clippers and got bored and fat.
Looks like the Knicks finally have a legit big man. I'm fairly certain he may be the first since Ewing left.
Tyson Chandler to the Knicks
Tyson Chandler to the Knicks
Boy has this thread fallen off the map!
Anyways, looks like there is no foreseeable end to the CP3/D. Howard trade talks. I swear every day it's like they are off to a new team (Lakers, Clippers, Knicks, etc.)
I'm really glad the Mavs got Lamar Odom for basically nothing- we'll take 'em!
We also picked up Vince Carter too. Maybe it's just the childhood fan in me, but I think he'll do decent this year!
Anyways, looks like there is no foreseeable end to the CP3/D. Howard trade talks. I swear every day it's like they are off to a new team (Lakers, Clippers, Knicks, etc.)
I'm really glad the Mavs got Lamar Odom for basically nothing- we'll take 'em!
We also picked up Vince Carter too. Maybe it's just the childhood fan in me, but I think he'll do decent this year!
Was so excited when I thought the Celtics got David West, what a tease. Hope Danny Ainge has something up his sleeve, as of now all we've done this offseason is piss off Rajon Rondo.
Really excited about the possibility of CP3 in a Clippers uniform! The Clippers are my adopted LA/Western Conference team (Boston transplant), and I go to a lot of their games. Chris Paul and Blake Griffin would be so fun. Might have to apply for season tickets next year.
Really excited about the possibility of CP3 in a Clippers uniform! The Clippers are my adopted LA/Western Conference team (Boston transplant), and I go to a lot of their games. Chris Paul and Blake Griffin would be so fun. Might have to apply for season tickets next year.
Chris Paul was officially traded to Los Angeles!!!
. . . Clippers, that is.
Wow, looks like the Clippers might not be utter **** for once. CP3, Griffin, Butler, Billups, and DeAndre Jordan.
. . . Clippers, that is.
Wow, looks like the Clippers might not be utter **** for once. CP3, Griffin, Butler, Billups, and DeAndre Jordan.
Clippers are going to waive one of Billups or Mo Williams. As a Heat fan, I hope they waive Billups, but it will more likely be Mo.