2011 Formula 1 Thread

[MOFS]

Maybe I'm spoiled from last week's 12 Hours of Sebring, but I thought the Melbourne race was really pretty dull. KERS, DRS, Pirelli seemed to add little or nothing of consequence. The only interesting part of the race was that Petrov beat out Alonso for a podium spot. Good for him.

I think the tyres make it more interesting. Clearly Webber/ Alonso/ Massa struggled to look after their tyres for the race, whereas the Mclarens, Saubers and Renaults seem to be much better. I think the best compliment I can give it is that it was as interesting as last year's race, which was wet. There were some good overtakes [Button on Kobayashi, Barichello], some great drives [Petrov, Perez and even Hamilton with his floor problems], and some talking points already regarding the futures of Massa and Webber after being comprehensively outdriven by their teammates. Plus the Red Bulls don't look unbeatable!

 

[RaceTripper]

I think the tyres make it more interesting. Clearly Webber/ Alonso/ Massa struggled to look after their tyres for the race, whereas the Mclarens, Saubers and Renaults seem to be much better. I think the best compliment I can give it is that it was as interesting as last year's race, which was wet. There were some good overtakes [Button on Kobayashi, Barichello], some great drives [Petrov, Perez and even Hamilton with his floor problems], and some talking points already regarding the futures of Massa and Webber after being comprehensively outdriven by their teammates. Plus the Red Bulls don't look unbeatable!

Good points.

But any 9 minutes of Sebring was still way more exciting than any 90 minutes of Melbourne. I'll bet the V8 Supercar race was better.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The announcers kept talking about the poor performance of the hard compound tires, and that made Perez's performance all the more impressive. The temperature on race day was cooler than expected as well, apparently Pirelli was expecting warmer temperatures so the compounds on the tires were not ideal for the conditions.

 

[rezenclowd3]

Haha, Vettel and his car names. This time around its Kinky Kylie for its tightly packaged rear end. I think Williams should claim that though

Wow though, today's quali was quite extraordinary.

 

[Smileyboy]

Is there any apps or websites that will let me watch the races n my iPad or iPhone? I just canceled cable after last season ended.
Thanks.

 

[Chappers]

I'm still trying to figure out why Hamilton was given a 20 second penalty. I've watch a re-run on the BBC a few times and just don't get it.

 

[iGav]

I'm still trying to figure out why Hamilton was given a 20 second penalty. I've watch a re-run on the BBC a few times and just don't get it.

You're allowed to move once... not five times. Weaving like this was banned after he (Hamilton) did the exact same thing, at the same race last season to Petrov.

Have to say, looking at the incident between Hamilton and Alonso from this angle, I didn't realise Hamilton swerved quite so suddenly and dramatically, I'm not entirely sure that it was fair to penalise Alonso, not a lot you can do when you pull out to overtake and the car in front than swerves across the track as well.

 

[remmy]

You're allowed to move once... not five times. Weaving like this was banned after he (Hamilton) did the exact same thing, at the same race last season to Petrov.

Have to say, looking at the incident between Hamilton and Alonso from this angle, I didn't realise Hamilton swerved quite so suddenly and dramatically, I'm not entirely sure that it was fair to penalise Alonso, not a lot you can do when you pull out to overtake and the car in front than swerves across the track as well.

You posted the wrong video, I saw only one move.

Also think it was harsh on Alonso, these things happen sometimes when there is close racing.

 

[iGav]

You posted the wrong video, I saw only one move.

No, I posted the correct video, it shows Hamilton clearly weaving down the main straight, changing direction some 5 times to prevent Alonso from gaining a tow, behaviour that was banned last year, after Hamilton did the same thing to Petrov.

these things happen sometimes when there is close racing.

Exactly... a racing incident.

 

[Chappers]

No, I posted the correct video, it shows Hamilton clearly weaving down the main straight, changing direction some 5 times to prevent Alonso from gaining a tow, behaviour that was banned last year, after Hamilton did the same thing to Petrov.



Exactly... a racing incident.

I still can't see swerving five times, they go round a long bend over to the left, Alonso goes to overtake, Hamilton moves over to the right (presumably to block) and Alonso clips him. I don't see anything much to penalize either of them. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13029061.stm

 

[Don't panic]

I still can't see swerving five times, they go round a long bend over to the left, Alonso goes to overtake, Hamilton moves over to the right (presumably to block) and Alonso clips him. I don't see anything much to penalize either of them. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13029061.stm

there are two links in iGav's post, one points to the multiple blocks by lewis (at least two, not sure about five), and a different one points to the contact between the two.

hamilton was penalized for blocking multiple times (first video)
alonso was penalized for causing an accident (second link)
but they didn't occur at the same time, there was a lap (i believe) in between

IMO the first is iffy, the second plain ridiculous.

also it is nonsensical to give a penalty that doesn't penalize. even if in this case it lead to the correct outcome, it's just conceptually ludicrous.

 

[Chappers]

there are two links in iGav's post, one points to the multiple blocks by lewis (at least two, not sure about five), and a different one points to the contact between the two.

hamilton was penalized for blocking multiple times (first video)
alonso was penalized for causing an accident (second link)
but they didn't occur at the same time, there was a lap (i believe) in between

IMO the first is iffy, the second plain ridiculous.

also it is nonsensical to give a penalty that doesn't penalize. even if in this case it lead to the correct outcome, it's just conceptually ludicrous.

Agreed - but there seems an awful lot of interfering recently to make the standings as close as possible for the end of the season.

 

[takao]

on the hamilton penalty: while harsh it can be justified ... when watching it live i thought "gee he sure is snaking there"

the alonso one was ridiculous from a tv viewer point. I thought was a normal driving accident.
in german/austrian tv Lauda/Wurz called it obviously Alonso fault so it might be more irresponsible from a drivers point of view

personally though i think Hamilton is one of the drivers who, in wheel-to-wheel fighting, simply pushes too far again and again. i suspect that his driving won't chance unless he becomes victim of another driver leaving him "no space to breath"

 

[Chappers]

Having looked at both bits of footage video, I am surprised that the penalties for either situation.
I remain with the view that there is an overall position to over control things to try an make a more exciting end to the season.
Bernie wanting to have fake rain on the track is an example of this, bit how far is that influence spreading.

 

[iGav]

there are two links in iGav's post, one points to the multiple blocks by lewis (at least two, not sure about five), and a different one points to the contact between the two.

It's not necessarily the blocks that are the problem, he's doing what he did last season (though much less drastic) which was trying to break the tow of the car following, Hamilton's car changes direction 5 times down the straight (though I'd concede 4 times if you allow the move to retake the racing line ) he's also moving around in the braking zone, which from what I understand, is something the drivers all agree in the driver's meeting not to do.

Agreed - but there seems an awful lot of interfering recently to make the standings as close as possible for the end of the season.

But by penalising Hamilton, surely they're doing the exact opposite as he was demoted in the points?

personally though i think Hamilton is one of the drivers who, in wheel-to-wheel fighting, simply pushes too far again and again.

Just like Senna and Schumacher before... I like Hamilton, he's generally right on the edge, but often just on the right side of it. Unlike Webber... too many of his wheel-to-wheel antics seem to end in a collision of some kind, and that's what cost clumsy the WDC last season.

Can't help but think that Red Bull are beating the others more by taking the piss than anything else... first the whole *nudge-nudge, wink-wink* trick-KERS in Oz and then halfway through the Malaysian GP, Vettel eases off, then we get a snippet of Red Bull radio saying not to use KERS, McLaren immediately inform their drivers of this, they up the pace, ruin their tyres, then Vettel turns the wick up... it's genius. F'in' genius.

 

[takao]

Just like Senna and Schumacher before... I like Hamilton, he's generally right on the edge, but often just on the right side of it. Unlike Webber... too many of his wheel-to-wheel antics seem to end in a collision of some kind, and that's what cost clumsy the WDC last season.

with Webber i always get the feeling that he has somehow a simply unrealistic "great" image of himself and his abilities. Add his repeated stupid free-time injuries. This season has been nothing short of a disaster for him and hardly unexpected.

in terms of most favorite wheel to wheel fighter i have to say it's Kobayashi and my favorite underrated-driver: Rosberg

Hamilton also shares the webber like self image.. remember his "mclaren is a racing team and red bull a soda company" comment before the season started ? funny how after the first race he then called the Red Bull front wing cheating

 

[Chappers]

But by penalising Hamilton, surely they're doing the exact opposite as he was demoted in the points?

Fair point.

 

[remmy]

ah my apologies, I thought when I originally read about it (on the bbc or guardian website) that Hamilton was being blamed for the minor wing loss.

 

[MOFS]

It's not necessarily the blocks that are the problem, he's doing what he did last season (though much less drastic) which was trying to break the tow of the car following, Hamilton's car changes direction 5 times down the straight (though I'd concede 4 times if you allow the move to retake the racing line ) he's also moving around in the braking zone, which from what I understand, is something the drivers all agree in the driver's meeting not to do.



But by penalising Hamilton, surely they're doing the exact opposite as he was demoted in the points?



Just like Senna and Schumacher before... I like Hamilton, he's generally right on the edge, but often just on the right side of it. Unlike Webber... too many of his wheel-to-wheel antics seem to end in a collision of some kind, and that's what cost clumsy the WDC last season.

Can't help but think that Red Bull are beating the others more by taking the piss than anything else... first the whole *nudge-nudge, wink-wink* trick-KERS in Oz and then halfway through the Malaysian GP, Vettel eases off, then we get a snippet of Red Bull radio saying not to use KERS, McLaren immediately inform their drivers of this, they up the pace, ruin their tyres, then Vettel turns the wick up... it's genius. F'in' genius.

I think Vettel still struggles to win races when he's not pole. I do think they need to be consistent here - Massa certainly weaved as much as Hamilton in Adelaide. However, the fact the penalty affected Hamilton's result and not Alonso's is not a problem - we saw the opposite occur in Valencia.

 

[Chappers]

Webber doesn't make it past first session of qualifying - will start 18th, tire choice mistake? He doesn't look happy.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Was Webber just slow? Or was it something else?

 

[takao]

it had to be a mechanical problem: while the hard tires add time it's only about 1 - 1.5 seconds tops and webber was much slower than that... on television they are now talking about electrical problems

vettel on the other side seems to have taken the pole rather easy again

 

[Chappers]

Seems Webber had electrical problems in the morning but it was the cold prime tires that were the problem - they thought they had enough performance to do the job. Still I expect Webber to do well.

Should be an interesting race

 

[takao]

Seems Webber had electrical problems in the morning but it was the cold prime tires that were the problem - they thought they had enough performance to do the job. Still I expect Webber to do well.

Should be an interesting race

indeed ... he still has all the chances to make points if he has the rigth strategy

what is more surprising to me is how absolutly chanceless Schumacher is within his own team against Rosberg... is his age showing ? or has Rosberg simply improved his qualifying by that much ?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

what is more surprising to me is how absolutly chanceless Schumacher is within his own team against Rosberg... is his age showing ? or has Rosberg simply improved his qualifying by that much ?

Schumacher is an average performer in an average car...I can only assume it's age catching up with the man.