2011 Formula 1 Thread

[xUKHCx]

An interesting solution - I wonder if it's a Renault system or a Red Bull Engineering one. It does mean they're a bit vulnerable if the Mclarens can get close to them.

It is interesting, it makes sense if you are always expecting to be at the front but if they are behind at any point where the overtaking opportunities are small then a team with a full kers system can block very well.

It'll be interesting to see how they play this one out over the course of the oming races.

 

[iGav]

Michael Schumacher won the WC in 1994 under dubious circumstances with it coming down to the last race.

The only dubious thing was how Hill wasn't stripped of his second place in the championship for ramming his opponent in a desperate attempt to win the championship, the same way Schumacher was (and rightly so) in 1997.

Such punishment might of dissuaded Hill from ramming Schumacher in Britain & Italy the following season, in similarly increasingly desperate and clumsy attempts to win the 1995 championship in a similar manner.

(Although the penalties he received during the year seemed excessive. He should have won it easily in 1994.)

He probably would have... had he not missed a quarter of the season of course.

if you watch that pole lap you can see him making a small error 3 corners before the finishing line and that he didn't even bother to use the KERS power the whole lap
in that light those 0.778 ahead is quite massive.. considering that he just would have to press a button to go even faster than that

Amazing pace shown by the Red Bull, well in Vettel's hands anyway... what's even more interesting is that there are reports beginning to emerge that Red Bull only have a start only KERS system to stop them being mugged (like 2009) at the start, and will then presumably simply rely on their race pace to keep them ahead.

both HRT drivers have been told they can't the grid tomorrow.

Good.

Really looking forward to the race in the morning.

 

[MOFS]

well that article is only speculation from hearsay... especially since in free training vettel was called over the radio that he shouldn't forget to use KERS because it was overheating

also it wouldn't make much sense to sacrifice 0.4 second each lap for a whole race by making it "start only"... especially with multiple pit stops (some estimate 4 or even more) and potential safety car restarts

edit: but i can see them making it a system with a rather long recharge time and thus perhaps save weight and drag

I think you misunderstand the article. The "start only" KERS would be much lighter as the majority of the battery for the full system is to allow quicker recharging. Off the start line the system is already fully charged so you don't need a big [20kg] battery pack - only a small pack already charged, so you lose the 20kg because you don't need to recharge it at all. KERS gives 0.4sec per lap, but Red Bull obviously feel the weight advantage outweighs the speed boost.

PS: I don't think this is hearsay - it's written by the bloke who does the English language post-qualifying Q & A!

PPS: Follow-up article by Ted Kravitz at the BBC. The start-only KERS would reduce tyre wear. Christian Horner has said:

"All I will tell you is our system is not the same as others' but it's at its most beneficial at the start."

 

[Lord Blackadder]

.778 seconds is a lifetime in Formula one.

 

[takao]

at least mercedes has some humor for their ads

 

[xMClass]

Can't wait to watch the race!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

at least mercedes has some humor for their ads

Heh, Nice.

 

[rezenclowd3]

Vettel rockets off the line at the start! Holy Cow that was nutty fast compared to the rest of the field. Massa defends beautifully against Button.

Dunno if the BBC has it, but the speed/tach/ throttle/ brake kers overlay is just tits IMO this time around.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Webber didn't use his KERS at the start apparently...not sure about Vettel.

 

[rezenclowd3]

^^^ Correct, and he moved on the inside of Hamilton, just didn't make it stick. However Webber was on the race line side, but I understand that the Pirelli's do not rubber in the track near as much as the Bridgestones.

 

[MOFS]

I think Petrov has a chance of a podium here. He's only just over a second slower than Alonso, but as a pit would lose him 27secs, that's a lot more time realistically. Webber seems to be chewing through his tyres and might be in trouble this season. Massa seems doomed already.

 

[rkaufmann87]

I think Petrov has a chance of a podium here. He's only just over a second slower than Alonso, but as a pit would lose him 27secs, that's a lot more time realistically. Webber seems to be chewing through his tyres and might be in trouble this season. Massa seems doomed already.

I'm pulling for him, as much as I like Webber I'd love to see Petrov make it. Especially after the grief Renault gave him at the end of last season.

 

[rezenclowd3]

Button shows Mass what Kers+DRS does. Wow...the difference in speed and pickup and go was just immense.

I also think Petrov will make podium.

ohohoh, I forgot to toss on my McLaren polo shirt while watching the race. Good thing its another damn commercial break on Speed....not...

 

[MOFS]

Petrov needs to do something this year, but this is a great start.

BTW it appears to pass a car 4 tenths slower, you need a full KERS and DRS, as proved by Button on Massa! Perez great drive - making a mockery of the fears about the tyres.

 

[rezenclowd3]

So on Speed, they say that Renault have the throttle open 90% all the time at a min. When off throttle, they are cutting the ignition, and only the last 10% of the intake control is controlled via your foot from 0-100% throttle application. Pretty damn cool imo. Alright...time to hit the hay.... it's too late for me...

 

[MOFS]

So on Speed, they say that Renault have the throttle open 90% all the time at a min. When off throttle, they are cutting the ignition, and only the last 10% of the intake control is controlled via your foot from 0-100% throttle application. Pretty damn cool imo.

Does that mean they have a stop-start system then?

 

[rezenclowd3]

Does that mean they have a stop-start system then?

They didn't stop on the track for us to see if the engine shut down at a stop light, and start right back up again on green

 

[MOFS]

They didn't stop on the track for us to see if the engine shut down at a stop light, and start right back up again on green

Hold on guys, I think I have an idea ...

The 2012 London GP:

Hosted as part of the Olympics, the race around central London involves traffic lights, and the congestion charge-stop.

Seb Vettel: "The roundabout is my favourite turn in F1."


On a side issue, Christian Horner has just admitted that they didn't run KERS at all over Saturday/ Sunday. From the comment on Friday regarding overheating, I suspect they might have some cooling issues as Adrian Newey doesn't appear to have factored it into the design.

Well done to Petrov - great drive, and seems a nice guy to boot.

 

[robbieduncan]

A moderately interesting race. The DRS does not really seem to be all that effective. Disappointed in Team Lotus. They should have been much closer to the pack than that.

 

[robbieduncan]

Breaking News!

Both Saubers disqualified for illegal rear wings. A real shame for them but very good new for Paul Di Resta who gets points on his Debut.

 

[iGav]

The DRS does not really seem to be all that effective.

I thought it was... if anything I was more concerned that the effect would be all the greater, culminating in overtaking being too easy (last thing F1 wants is overtaking to be as easy as Button's move on Massa down the main straight), I was amazed by how much the wing opened though...

They should have been much closer to the pack than that.

Albert Park's always been a funny track, I suspect we'll have a better gauge of performance in Malaysia.

 

[takao]

Alexander Wurz on austrian television speculated that the DRS might have been better suited to a different longer full speed segment of the track (after corner 2 or 3 as far as i remember

IMHO the DRS effect was clearly visible: the following cars had it easier to stay close to the car in front of them, in the past it had been much more difficult to stay close for more than 3-5 laps
also the technical solutions seems to have perfect without problems .. i suspected much more problems

don't overrate it though because overtaking a top car will still be really difficult: the red bulls in last year were among the slowest cars on the straights by far, yet it was far from easy to catch them

 

[Lord Blackadder]

It's too bad that Perez got DSQ'd after putting in a solid drive, really stretching those hard compounds.

The race was ultimately no contest as a competitive event - Vettel was in total control. But as for Red Bull having no KERS, to what extent does this hurt their performance? Both Red Bulls had excellent starts. I'm still trying to wrap my head around KERS. If Vettel can win so easily without it (albeit from pole), what's the point?

 

[takao]

The race was ultimately no contest as a competitive event - Vettel was in total control. But as for Red Bull having no KERS, to what extent does this hurt their performance? Both Red Bulls had excellent starts. I'm still trying to wrap my head around KERS. If Vettel can win so easily without it (albeit from pole), what's the point?

the starting performance from the red bulls sure was impressive. last year they were clearly outmatched there. seems they invested a lot of effort. could it be that perhaps they are going for a two tiered approach ?

1. when they manage to qualify in the first 2 rows they go for todays "no-kers but other yet unknown trickery" for an extra fast start trying to lead the race
2. and if qualifying turns out bad they install the kers, instead of 'trickery' for the more needed overtaking capability in the back of the field?

would be such stuff be even legal ? just wild guessing here though.. we will have to see the next race for a better observation

from todays race though it needs to be said that mclaren was rather comparable in pace to the red bulls on the first set of soft tires and full fuel-tanks. i suspect that was one of the design focus for Mclaren after last year they often had pace problems early in the races losing countless seconds within the first 10 laps
but it might also be an indicator for the RBs focusing more on better hard-compound performance (Wurz commented that their lap time 'drop' going from soft to hard was around 0.2-0.3 less than the other teams suffered during the free training)

 

[RaceTripper]

Maybe I'm spoiled from last week's 12 Hours of Sebring, but I thought the Melbourne race was really pretty dull. KERS, DRS, Pirelli seemed to add little or nothing of consequence. The only interesting part of the race was that Petrov beat out Alonso for a podium spot. Good for him.