2013 Intel Haswell on R-MBP?

[sojha]

Hello everyone,

Can anyone tell me the possibility of the Retina MacBook Pros being updated to feature Intel Haswell in 2013? I'm currently on a Mid-2007 White MacBook, and while it's done very well, I need a faster processor and graphics.

How fast can you expect Haswell to be on a Retina MacBook Pro? Is this even a possibility?

 

[appleguy123]

Almost 100% possibility.

 

[simsaladimbamba]

Since Apple seems to update their notebooks at least once a year, after Intel has released new chips and such, thus allowing Apple to use them, which they also did, chances are very high, that if a MacBook Pro with Retina Display is released in 2013, after Intel has released their Haswell chips, that those 2013 MacBook Pros with Retina Display will use Haswell chips too, meaning that those Macs will probably be 20 to 40 percent faster than the current ones, and probably thrice as fast as your Mac, depending on your computational usage.

 

[Lord Appleseed]

The chance is quite high, yes. But what is it you expect from haswell?

 

[Slivortal]

Hello everyone,

Can anyone tell me the possibility of the Retina MacBook Pros being updated to feature Intel Haswell in 2013? I'm currently on a Mid-2007 White MacBook, and while it's done very well, I need a faster processor and graphics.

How fast can you expect Haswell to be on a Retina MacBook Pro? Is this even a possibility?

It's entirely a possibility. No one knows how it would compare to Ivy Bridge. But to quote myself from another thread,

I'm not sure which decision's "rational" - in one you're getting a laptop that may be upgraded the following year. In the other, you're spending $300 (between buying and reselling) to wait and get another computer which may be upgraded even more the following year (Broadwell offers SEVERAL upgrades over Haswell, especially as it's adopting the Multi Chip Design (MCD)). But a year after Broadwell, you have Skylake, which will offer new micro architecture over Broadwell. And if you just wait a year more you get the 10nm Skymont, which breaks the mythical quantum tunneling barrier (of they can pull it off, which they say they can), meaning quite the performance bump again.

Tl;dr - Intel's processors are LOADED over the next 4 years. I'm not sure that going as far to waste money waiting is a good idea when each one seems more of an upgrade than the last.

 

[appleguy123]

The chance is quite high, yes. But what is it you expect from haswell?

Much better graphic performance and better battery life.

 

[Slivortal]

Much better graphic performance and better battery life.

Much is a bit of exaggeration. The fact is, we really don't know. Everyone was expecting Ivy Bridge's triplanes would revolutionize the industry, and all we got is a slight bump.

And even if Haswell is a tock, Ivy Bridge was a tick+ with its trigates, and Broadwell probably will be when they adopt an MCD design the following year. Wait until next year, and I can almost guarantee that Broadwell will look just about as tantalizing as Haswell does now.

 

[sojha]

I recently did a Geekbench test on my MacBook, and got a score of like 2447 lol, which I think is still okay for a 5 year old computer.

I don't really upgrade my computers too often. But then again, I haven't had much time.

How fast (in terms of GHz) can we expect Haswell to be?

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The chance is quite high, yes. But what is it you expect from haswell?

I really want excellent battery life, great graphics, and incredible speed lol. So pretty much what everyone expects.

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Much is a bit of exaggeration. The fact is, we really don't know. Everyone was expecting Ivy Bridge's triplanes would revolutionize the industry, and all we got is a slight bump.

And even if Haswell is a tock, Ivy Bridge was a tick+ with its trigates, and Broadwell probably will be when they adopt an MCD design the following year. Wait until next year, and I can almost guarantee that Broadwell will look just about as tantalizing as Haswell does now.

Did you mean Haswell instead of Broadwell? If not, I would, but I just don't have the time or patience to wait until 2014. Haswell seems like it'll be one of the very last processors before Intel starts going quantum towards the 2nd half of the decade, and I think if I get Haswell in 2013, then I can wait about 5 years and get an even better one in 2018-19.

 

[Slivortal]

I recently did a Geekbench test on my MacBook, and got a score of like 2447 lol, which I think is still okay for a 5 year old computer.

I don't really upgrade my computers too often. But then again, I'm just going to be a Soph in college, so I haven't had much time.

How fast (in terms of GHz) can we expect Haswell to be?

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I really want excellent battery life (since I'm in college), great graphics, and incredible speed lol. So pretty much what everyone expects.

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Did you mean Haswell instead of Broadwell? If not, I would, but I just don't have the time or patience to wait until 2014. Haswell seems like it'll be one of the very last processors before Intel starts going quantum towards the 2nd half of the decade, and I think if I get Haswell in 2013, then I can wait about 5 years and get an even better one in 2018-19.

If we knew the clock speeds, your presumed Google search would've answered your question, wouldn't it?

You mean what everyone hopes for. What exactly do you need breakneck speed/graphics for? Chances are if the speed/graphics on Haswell will help you, you'd need to upgrade now because you'd be doing some serious work to break IB's barriers. Otherwise, if you don't need a new computer, you might as well wait. I have an '09 MBP, and if it keeps not doing what I need it to, I'm going to get something that can. If this is your situation, I'd suggest the same.

And I meant what I said; Broadwell will probably be just as much of an upgrade as Haswell will be. And current evidence puts quantum computing in a MUCH larger timeframe than you think. We still haven't designed a functional Q-bit, and it will probably be 10-15 years after we make a Q-bit until we design a computer that can actually use one. Think 25 years in the future, minimum.

Also, you said you don't need to upgrade now, but next year you do. That should answer your question well enough. Honestly OP, I'm not quite sure what you want me to say.

You could get one now and upgrade in 2017-2018, or one next year and upgrade in 2018-2019. Either way, technology gets better and old things get obsolete. It's why there's so much money in computers, and in my opinion, what makes them so interesting.

Buy right after an upgrade, and don't look back.

 

[Lord Appleseed]

Much better graphic performance and better battery life.

I really want excellent battery life (since I'm in college), great graphics, and incredible speed lol. So pretty much what everyone expects.

Graphics Performance?
Like in normal UI usage?

Because everything else is done by the GPU, which is awesome in the current Retina MBP.

 

[MikhailT]

...How fast (in terms of GHz) can we expect Haswell to be?

Don't expect any major increase in GHz for a long time, it's all about efficiency per clock per watt now.

Haswell is going to be on the same 22nm process as Ivy Bridge, so not a major shrink and nor a huge savings in battery life. It's a further refinement of Ivy Bridge.

That'll be Broadwall, a 14nm process shrink expected in 2014, that'll give bigger bang for the bucks compared to Haswell.

I really want excellent battery life (since I'm in college), great graphics, and incredible speed lol. So pretty much what everyone expects.

That's going to happen every year, there's going to be slight improvements on CPU, GPU, battery life and so on.

If you need a laptop now, get it now. If you can wait, then wait. The other thing that you can benefit from waiting is that there'd probably be a 13" rMBP this year or next year and a second generation of rMBP models next year that'll be refined to fix any mistakes they made from the first-gen model.

 

[sojha]

If we knew the clock speeds, your presumed Google search would've answered your question, wouldn't it?

You mean what everyone hopes for. What exactly do you need breakneck speed/graphics for? Chances are if the speed/graphics on Haswell will help you, you'd need to upgrade now because you'd be doing some serious work to break IB's barriers. Otherwise, if you don't need a new computer, you might as well wait. I have an '09 MBP, and if it keeps not doing what I need it to, I'm going to get something that can. If this is your situation, I'd suggest the same.

Ivy Bridge was just a tick. I was about to place an order for the R-MBP the day it came out because I was excited I'd be able to get the performance I need. But I decided that I'd be better for Apple to straighten the kinks in a year and get the tock Haswell has to offer. Your 09 MBP is still probably pretty capable. Mine's going down. It's been through old RAM and burned out a HDD and an external. So yeah I think you're right that to wait, but I'll def. get the R-MBP if/when they put Haswell in it next year.

Doesn't some website have the average days that Apple updates their laptops? I believe 207 or something is the avg time for MacBook Pro. Which would make sense since Haswell's release and a supposedly new update of the R-MBP would coincide Springtime next year.

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Graphics Performance?
Like in normal UI usage?

Because everything else is done by the GPU, which is awesome in the current Retina MBP.

Yeah I'm sure its good. But the fact that the 650 was never meant to push 2880x1800 (neither was HD 4000) is the result of people having screen issues with their new R-MBPs, according to AnandTech.

 

[Slivortal]

Ivy Bridge was just a tick. I was about to place an order for the R-MBP the day it came out because I was excited I'd be able to get the performance I need. But I decided that I'd be better for Apple to straighten the kinks in a year and get the tock Haswell has to offer. Your 09 MBP is still probably pretty capable. Mine's going down. It's been through old RAM and burned out a HDD and an external. So yeah I think you're right that to wait, but I'll def. get the R-MBP if/when they put Haswell in it next year.

Doesn't some website have the average days that Apple updates their laptops? I believe 207 or something is the avg time for MacBook Pro. Which would make sense since Haswell's release and a supposedly new update of the R-MBP would coincide Springtime next year.

That website is actually the buyer's guide on this one. And there are a few ways to look at the tick-tock situation. The fact is, Intel makes so many changes on their ticks that they're nearing the power of the tocks.

Ivy Bridge implemented Tri Gates, and Broadwell will implement a Multi Chip Package (MCP) that will make all of Intel's former chips obsolete, as they were all external. You can't really simplify things to simply "arch upgrades" and "die shrinks" anymore.

Also, the actual design of the MBP just got "tocked" (as in a chassy change), a phenomenon which really only happens once every 3-4 years. While the internals may be upgraded over the next four years, the actual design probably won't change. Something else to think about.

EDIT: Also, if you've already made your decision, why start this thread? If you're second-guessing, just remember that there's always something better around the corner, and nothing that anyone makes will truly ever be perfect. Such is science.

 

[prfrma]

So basically, buy the new MBPR now and when sky lake comes you'll be just about few ready to get a revolutionary upgrade... Again.

 

[Slivortal]

So basically, buy the new MBPR now and when sky lake comes you'll be just about few ready to get a revolutionary upgrade... Again.

Or you could just wait for Skymont, which will include resistance to quantum tunneling at 10nm (necessary for the die shrink).

See what's going on here?

EDIT: Here's a whole article on how Broadwell and MCM will change everything... Again

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/...on-14-nanometer-will-have-a-qsocq-design.html

 

[sojha]

That website is actually the buyer's guide on this one. And there are a few ways to look at the tick-tock situation. The fact is, Intel makes so many changes on their ticks that they're nearing the power of the tocks.

EDIT: Also, if you've already made your decision, why start this thread? If you're second-guessing, just remember that there's always something better around the corner, and nothing that anyone makes will truly ever be perfect. Such is science.

I'm asking about Haswell! I can still use this MacBook for 6-8 months to basic usage. But for things that I would like to use it for, (gaming for leisure, video editing, rendering) this computer is pretty useless. Hell, my fans audibly turned on when I went to Facebook last night.

 

[boomhower]

Assuming Intel gets them out on time they will be in next years refresh. It only makes sense.

 

[Slivortal]

I'm asking about Haswell! I can still use this MacBook for 6-8 months to basic usage. But for things that I would like to use it for, (gaming for leisure, video editing, rendering) this computer is pretty useless. Hell, my fans audibly turned on when I went to Facebook last night.

If there are things that you want to do that you can't do, I'd reccomend upgrading. Due to the fact that things change every year, it means that it almost doesn't matter when you upgrade as long as you do it relatively quickly after a refresh.

Heck, I'm having troubles virtualizing 1 VM on an '09 MBP (and I'd like to virtualize several). If the problem persists, I'd much rather be able to be more productive a year sooner, as missing the next model just means I upgrade that much sooner.

 

[prfrma]

Or you could just wait for Skymont, which will include resistance to quantum tunneling at 10nm (necessary for the die shrink).

See what's going on here?

EDIT: Here's a whole article on how Broadwell and MCM will change everything... Again

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/...on-14-nanometer-will-have-a-qsocq-design.html

Exactly, I upgrade desktop and laptops in 3 to 4 cycles. If there's something like a 50% performance bump next season i may upgrade but beyond that i love the feeling of getting something 2-4 times more powerful than the last.

Also to nerd out on Intel, I bet they already have working versions of all of there named chipsets for the next 7 years. They just use all the time in between to develop mass manufacturing processes and improve yield to profitable levels

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I'm asking about Haswell! I can still use this MacBook for 6-8 months to basic usage. But for things that I would like to use it for, (gaming for leisure, video editing, rendering) this computer is pretty useless. Hell, my fans audibly turned on when I went to Facebook last night.

If you're a professional, work out how much money you'll
not make by waiting another year as opposed to the extra 20% more performance you'll get over the life of the machine.

Unless your a hobbyist, its a no brainer.

 

[sojha]

Don't expect any major increase in GHz for a long time, it's all about efficiency per clock per watt now.

Haswell is going to be on the same 22nm process as Ivy Bridge, so not a major shrink and nor a huge savings in battery life. It's a further refinement of Ivy Bridge.

That'll be Broadwall, a 14nm process shrink expected in 2014, that'll give bigger bang for the bucks compared to Haswell.

Seems like they were able to reduce power consumption on Haswell by 20 percent. They actually made it run on a lightbulb. Run a quick Google search on it- pretty cool.

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Exactly, I upgrade desktop and laptops in 3 to 4 cycles. If there's something like a 50% performance bump next season i may upgrade but beyond that i love the feeling of getting something 2-4 times more powerful than the last.

Also to nerd out on Intel, I bet they already have working versions of all of there named chipsets for the next 7 years. They just use all the time in between to develop mass manufacturing processes and improve yield to profitable levels

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If you're a professional, work out how much money you'll
not make by waiting another year as opposed to the extra 20% more performance you'll get over the life of the machine.

Unless your a hobbyist, its a no brainer.

I'm in college, so I'm using it for work-school stuff, but hobby as well. So are you saying that it's worth waiting?

 

[prfrma]

If what you'll be doing in college needed the extra horse power I don't think that this would be a hard decision. As such there is no objective decision anyone could make without you spelling out every detail of your situation.

 

[Slivortal]

Seems like they were able to reduce power consumption on Haswell by 20 percent. They actually made it run on a lightbulb. Run a quick Google search on it- pretty cool.

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I'm in college, so I'm using it for work-school stuff, but hobby as well. So are you saying that it's worth waiting?

While they were able to run a computer on lightbulbs, that computer didn't have the specs that the RMBP has. So a 20% battery increase sounds about right.

If you're going to benefit significantly from the specs, I'd say the extra year of benefit would far outweigh whatever relatively slight benefits that Haswell will offer next year. But hey, that's just me.

 

[sojha]

While they were able to run a computer on lightbulbs, that computer didn't have the specs that the RMBP has. So a 20% battery increase sounds about right.

If you're going to benefit significantly from the specs, I'd say the extra year of benefit would far outweigh whatever relatively slight benefits that Haswell will offer next year. But hey, that's just me.

Sorry- I meant to say they reduced power 20X. They say it allows a MacBook to run for 24 hrs on a single charge.

http://techthingdaily.com/tag/haswell/

and
http://www.theverge.com/2011/09/13/intel-announces-haswell-processor-2013-improved-power-efficiency/

 

[yly3]

Can somebody clarify this once and for all ?
Is Haswell going to be a significant tock, at least in "user experience" such and 9-11h battery life on a rMBP and cooler machine ? In my opinion, if you bought the first intel i Core generation in 2010 you were good to go up until 2013's Haswell.

I want to finally catch a tock a do not give a damn untill somethin trully significant comes again. If Haswell (2013) is not the one, I will be getting myself a late 17" 2011 MBP and wait until the proper tock.
On a mid 2007 right now.

 

[Slivortal]

Sorry- I meant to say they reduced power 20X. They say it allows a MacBook to run for 24 hrs on a single charge.

http://techthingdaily.com/tag/haswell/

and
http://www.theverge.com/2011/09/13/intel-announces-haswell-processor-2013-improved-power-efficiency/

The funny thing about projections: Ivy Bridge was supposed to get at least twice the battery efficiency of Sandy Bridge. Meanwhile, the specs on MBAs and legacy MBPs have barely budged. 20%, MAYBE 50% sounds like the maximum realistically, but I still think we're pretty far off from full-day batteries.

I could very well be wrong, but changes in CS and CE are usually incremental. There are big upgrades, like C2D to iX processors (the Nehalem upgrade), but if you believe without reservation that battery lives are going to shoot up 3-4x from one micro arch change, I'm not quite sure I follow.

Can somebody clarify this once and for all ?
Is Haswell going to be a significant tock, at least in "user experience" such and 9-11h battery life on a rMBP and cooler machine ? In my opinion, if you bought the first intel i Core generation in 2010 you were good to go up until 2013's Haswell.

I want to finally catch a tock a do not give a damn untill somethin trully significant comes again. If Haswell (2013) is not the one, I will be getting myself a late 17" 2011 MBP and wait until the proper tock.
On a mid 2007 right now.

NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HASWELL. IT COULD COME OUT IN THREE MONTHS OR FIVE YEARS. WE COULD GET YEARS OF BATTERY LIFE ON A SINGLE CHARGE OR NO UPGRADE WHATSOEVER.

It could even be endothermic, and cool off the surrounding area.

All we have is speculation, and you've pretty much seen it all here.