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While I do agree with you that nothing is officially confirmed, we DO get an idea from articles like above announced by Intel of what to overall expect.

I've been reading the past 4 months or so on this board that Ivy Bridge was going to be a minor upgrade and so it was.
Realistically, I doubt Haswell will be a major overhaul, but I expect around a 30-60% performance increase depending on configuration and at least a 9 hour battery on a RMBP.

Is it too much to ask ?
 
I purchased the new rMBP. Once Broadwell comes out I will probably sell it and buy the new one.
 
While I do agree with you that nothing is officially confirmed, we DO get an idea from articles like above announced by Intel of what to overall expect.

I've been reading the past 4 months or so on this board that Ivy Bridge was going to be a minor upgrade and so it was.
Realistically, I doubt Haswell will be a major overhaul, but I expect around a 30-60% performance increase depending on configuration and at least a 9 hour battery on a RMBP.

Is it too much to ask ?

There are a few interesting things:

- heat reduction since the tdps are lower from what has been leaked so far.

- performance increase due to new arch, combined with a tri gate transistors, this should boost battery life as per IDF 2012.

- a much more powerful gpu in the die.

Those changes wont be make or break, they never are. And that perspective is always given due to the comparison between the last and the new model, basically they are never that night and day difference that people are usually expecting.

But for such and old macbook, it should be a night and day difference. If you can wait I would.
 
There are a few interesting things:

- heat reduction since the tdps are lower from what has been leaked so far.

- performance increase due to new arch, combined with a tri gate transistors, this should boost battery life as per IDF 2012.

- a much more powerful gpu in the die.

Those changes wont be make or break, they never are. And that perspective is always given due to the comparison between the last and the new model, basically they are never that night and day difference that people are usually expecting.

But for such and old macbook, it should be a night and day difference. If you can wait I would.

I agree with this post. However, with the white MB that the OP has, pretty much anything would be a night/day difference.
 
Graphics Performance?
Like in normal UI usage?

Because everything else is done by the GPU, which is awesome in the current Retina MBP.

With more powerful graphics, the integrated graphics will be able to do more, which will increase battery life and overall efficiency.
 
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With more powerful graphics, the integrated graphics will be able to do more, which will increase battery life.

It's supposedly got killer integrated graphics. Seriously, check out the link I posted on page 1. They've got the thing running of a lightbulb. Thats cool even if it was running on a crappy spec'd comp.
 
I'm on a mid 2007 15" MBP with the 128MB gpu and I am satisfied with it and I can certainly wait. Heck I can even play FIFA 12 and CS Source on low on it. And besides Word, iTunes, Safari and movies I am not doing anything on it. I used to play with Logic but it's the last of my priorities.

I WOULD NOT wait a year if battery life isn't increased and the performance upgrade is similar to Sandy -> Ivy AND the year after (in 2014) they release the performance upgrade I want. Like I said, I want that tock.

I really want the Retina, but combined with the fact that I'm still not sold on loosing the Matte screen and that I LOVE 10.6.8 I was thinking of going late 17 2011 and upgrade in 2014-2015.

How is Mountain Lion ? Is it snappy as SL ? I read it's better than Lion but I'm not yet sure.
It's just that I am sick and tired of switching machines or searching for the best ocasion of getting one.
How is the discrete GPU field looking in the near future ?
 
Guys, I just bought the rMBP but the UI is really laggy and the computers gets very warm very easily. My computer is also prone to crashes whenever I run a flash video in chrome. That never happened to me on my early '11 MBP.

Should I return my rMBP and wait for Haswell? Is that going to improve all of these issues? You know I went from a C2D to SB and I didn't notice a difference at all in performance in everyday usage and even in battery life. But now I can see how IB is struggling with the RMBP so is it worth waiting for more powerful hardware?
 
Guys, I just bought the rMBP but the UI is really laggy and the computers gets very warm very easily. My computer is also prone to crashes whenever I run a flash video in chrome. That never happened to me on my early '11 MBP.

Should I return my rMBP and wait for Haswell? Is that going to improve all of these issues? You know I went from a C2D to SB and I didn't notice a difference at all in performance in everyday usage and even in battery life. But now I can see how IB is struggling with the RMBP so is it worth waiting for more powerful hardware?
By the time Haswell is released and the MBPR is updated with the new CPU, the goal posts will change as well.

I've not had a single crash with my MBPR while running Flash videos in Firefox.
Sorry- I meant to say they reduced power 20X. They say it allows a MacBook to run for 24 hrs on a single charge.
Problem is it's just the CPU that will consume less power than its previous generations, and does not take into account all the other parts of the system (RAM, GPU (if any), storage, display, etc.) that also consume power. A 20X jump in battery life in one generation, especially without any improvements to the battery tech, is very hard to believe.
 
Sorry- I meant to say they reduced power 20X. They say it allows a MacBook to run for 24 hrs on a single charge.

http://techthingdaily.com/tag/haswell/

and
http://www.theverge.com/2011/09/13/intel-announces-haswell-processor-2013-improved-power-efficiency/

The link said:

"The good news is that Intel already has the chip running with a 30% reduction in active power consumption over current-generation (Sandy Bridge) Core i5 chips and is aiming for a 20-fold improvement in standby time."

First, 30% != 20 times. It's talking about comparing Haswell against SB, not Ivy Bridge. Ivy Bridge is about 10-15% better, so it's just another 15% improvement.

Second, 20x improvement in standby is nothing special. Current standby is so small (except in MBPs) that even an Atom CPU from Intel could have a 50-fold improvement in standby compared to current notebook CPU.

They're not saying "24 hours on a charge" meaning that you can turn on the laptop, use it fully for 24 hours. They're talking about low-power idle when the laptop is hibernating in low power mode for 24 hours before everything shuts down for good.
 
Haswell seems like it's seriously going to kick some butt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pKleSdXHT4

Looks pretty legit. I'm on a C2D, so upgrading to this will def be a huge gain. Also if you update your computers every 4-5 years, then getting a Haswell R-MBP in 2013 would put you just in time for an update in 2018-19 for a skylake/skymont or whatever.


PS- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock#Roadmap

Hopefully all of us already know what tick-tock is, thank you very much. My argument was that since Intel's going to probably be implementing MCM in Broadwell (a tick), it barely even matters anymore whether the upgrade's a tick or a tock, in terms of actual performance. And it's funny that you don't seem to care about Skylake vs Skymont since you've shown some weird attachment to the word tock, no matter how justified it may or may not be (marketing at work).

But it sounds like you've made a decision, so congratulations. I still think holding out when you have a computer that can't do what you want it to when Intel's basically coming out with a new upgrade every year is pretty much insanity, but to each their own. For what it's worth, I see MCM making a much larger impact than whatever energy-saving techniques Intel implements in Haswell (although I could be wrong).

EDIT: Allow me to show you a graph to illustrate this. The biggest upgrade to Intel chips in recent history was the change from Northbridge to Platform Controller Hub (PCH). Most laymen know this as the "C2D to iX" switch. Now, Ivy Bridge still runs off this chipset arch (Panther Point, a type of PCH), and we're pretty sure Haswell will as well (rumored code name: Lynx Point). However, when we get the Broadwell "tick", the die size will be shrunken to 14nm. At this point, what Intel will possibly and probably do is switch to a new chipset arch (different than microarch), known as Multi Chip Module (MCM), a change that is too advanced to implement at 22nm. This is the change that I see possibly as big as the C2D to iX switch, and in my opinion, the one to watch out for.

http://www.nordichardware.com/image...et/Broadwell_MCM/fullimages/Broadwell_MCM.png
 
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Hopefully all of us already know what tick-tock is, thank you very much. My argument was that since Intel's going to probably be implementing MCM in Broadwell (a tick), it barely even matters anymore whether the upgrade's a tick or a tock, in terms of actual performance. And it's funny that you don't seem to care about Skylake vs Skymont since you've shown some weird attachment to the word tock, no matter how justified it may or may not be (marketing at work).

But it sounds like you've made a decision, so congratulations. I still think holding out when you have a computer that can't do what you want it to when Intel's basically coming out with a new upgrade every year is pretty much insanity, but to each their own. For what it's worth, I see MCM making a much larger impact than whatever energy-saving techniques Intel implements in Haswell (although I could be wrong).

EDIT: Allow me to show you a graph to illustrate this. The biggest upgrade to Intel chips in recent history was the change from Northbridge to Platform Controller Hub (PCH). Most laymen know this as the "C2D to iX" switch. Now, Ivy Bridge still runs off this chipset arch (Panther Point, a type of PCH), and we're pretty sure Haswell will as well (rumored code name: Lynx Point). However, when we get the Broadwell "tick", the die size will be shrunken to 14nm. At this point, what Intel will possibly and probably do is switch to a new chipset arch (different than microarch), known as Multi Chip Module (MCM), a change that is too advanced to implement at 22nm. This is the change that I see possibly as big as the C2D to iX switch, and in my opinion, the one to watch out for.

http://www.nordichardware.com/image...et/Broadwell_MCM/fullimages/Broadwell_MCM.png

According to your logic, all us living in the USA know exactly what ObamaCare is. However, that is not the case.

Okay sure when the Broadwell "tick" happens, you're going to be roaming the streets naked in happiness. What is your point? You clearly stated a few posts back that technology is always moving forward. If I get a Haswell in 2013, it's because I'll need it (just like you said).

At the end of the day, it's just about what people need. The point of my starting this thread was anticipating when or if a 2013 Haswell will be in a R-MBP. This was never about me stuck between two decisions, as you seem to have misunderstood.
 
According to your logic, all us living in the USA know exactly what ObamaCare is. However, that is not the case.

Okay sure when the Broadwell "tick" happens, you're going to be roaming the streets naked in happiness. What is your point? You clearly stated a few posts back that technology is always moving forward. If I get a Haswell in 2013, it's because I'll need it (just like you said).

At the end of the day, it's just about what people need. The point of my starting this thread was anticipating when or if a 2013 Haswell will be in a R-MBP. This was never about me stuck between two decisions, as you seem to have misunderstood.

My bad, then. I thought you were deciding.

And right, I completely agree. If you're fine with a white MacBook for another year, then all power to you for waiting it out. My point about Broadwell was that ticks are just as powerful as tocks, and waiting for the next tock is no longer necessarily smarter than upgrading on a tick.

I'm personally not waiting for Broadwell, and will probably upgrade either this summer or the next. I was just saying a strong case can be made for any upgrade.

If I was running a white MB, I just couldn't see myself waiting out the year. With the processing power I need, I can't see myself waiting the year with an '09 MBP C2D model. But I'm in a position that requires a large amount of processing power, so YMMV.

It will last a lot longer on battery than Ivy Bridge, that is for certain.

A lot's pretty relative. If by a lot you mean 2-3 hours, it's very possible. But you're going to still end up in a situation where the non-CPU parts will start bottlenecking the battery.
 
Guys, I just bought the rMBP but the UI is really laggy and the computers gets very warm very easily. My computer is also prone to crashes whenever I run a flash video in chrome. That never happened to me on my early '11 MBP.

Should I return my rMBP and wait for Haswell? Is that going to improve all of these issues? You know I went from a C2D to SB and I didn't notice a difference at all in performance in everyday usage and even in battery life. But now I can see how IB is struggling with the RMBP so is it worth waiting for more powerful hardware?

I would return it and wait for the hardware/OS to catch up with the video technology. The rMBP is not fully baked, and you're paying top dollar. I would get the 2012 15" cMBP or a 2010 MBA running Snow Leopard.

----------

Guys, I just bought the rMBP but the UI is really laggy and the computers gets very warm very easily. My computer is also prone to crashes whenever I run a flash video in chrome. That never happened to me on my early '11 MBP.

Should I return my rMBP and wait for Haswell? Is that going to improve all of these issues? You know I went from a C2D to SB and I didn't notice a difference at all in performance in everyday usage and even in battery life. But now I can see how IB is struggling with the RMBP so is it worth waiting for more powerful hardware?

I would return it and wait for the hardware/OS to catch up with the video technology. The rMBP is not fully baked, and you're paying top dollar. I would get the 15" cMBP or a 2010 MBA running Snow Leopard.
 
I would return it and wait for the hardware/OS to catch up with the video technology. The rMBP is not fully baked, and you're paying top dollar. I would get the 2012 15" cMBP or a 2010 MBA running Snow Leopard.


His issue's actually probably with Chrome, which currently is causing an error with the Intel chips on both MBAs and RMBPs.
 
Buy right after an upgrade, and don't look back.

More insightful words have never been spoken in the tech world.

Oh man, we just spend the past year hearing nothing but "OMG IVY BRIDGE THIS/IVY BRIDGE THAT"... now we look forward to "OMG HASWELL THIS/HASWELL THAT".

For the rest of your life, you will be turned off by buying because of what is coming down the pipeline. Just remember the pipeline is infinite. Buy for your current needs and enjoy.
 
It seems like Haswell will be geared toward ultra books? Would a R-MBP be considered an ultra book? I wouldn't think so...

http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-2013-haswell-processor-pictured-/

What does this seem to mean with regards to a 2013 R-MBP?

When Intel refers to "ultrabooks", it refers to its ultrabook, or ULV processors. ULV processors are specifically dual-core processors that sacrifice CPU cycles in order to consume less power, and are used by most of the non-Apple ultrabook industry.

In terms of Apple products, the only two ULV processors are on their MBA line - the 1.8 GHz i5 and the 2.0 GHz i7.

So, no, by Intel's standards the RMBP is not an ultrabook.
 
Don't forget, processors are only part if the puzzle. From NV mram, lithium air batteries, and potential leaps in ssd capacity, and that's forgetting tech like leap motion that could drastically change the game. Pinning your hopes on processors is hugely short sighted.
 
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Don't forget, processors are only pay if the puzzle. From NV ram, lithium air batteries, and principal leaps in ssd capacity, and that's forgetting tech like leap motion that could drastically change the game. Pinning your hopes on processors is hugely short sighted.

This is actually an excellent point. Merely judging a computer by its processor is an extremely myopic view. I personally forget about this sometimes.
 
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