It's not a product unless you can make it in production. I would put a big part of the onus on design and manufacturing engineering, who designed something that couldn't be made in the expected facility. This is not the only example in nMP 6,1 where "the product" was overruled by art.
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2013 Mac Pro Launch Was 'Postponed' Due Partly to Shortage of 'Made in USA' Screws
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I’m stilling waiting for that G5 PowerBook! Timmie... if you are reading this, you must have a prototype somewhere... send me one!!!
That no doubt can be an issue. But what represents cheap labor here in the U.S. isn't necessarily the same as what represents cheap labor somewhere else. In other words, the reason something is cheaper if it is produced somewhere else isn't necessarily that someone there is being taken advantage of whereas that wouldn't be the case if it was produced here.
Paying someone a fair wage for the work they do in, e.g., rural China may mean paying them considerably less than would be needed to pay someone a fair wage to do the same work in, e.g., Los Angeles, CA. The costs of living are different and the expected standards of living are different (and that wouldn't change if a given bit of production wasn't done there). If anything, China doing a great deal of production for people in the U.S. and Europe increases opportunities and standards of living for people in China. That's why they are willing to do it. Our choice not to have them produce stuff for us wouldn't help them, it would hurt them.
I'd add that, paying something much greater than what the market dictates is a fair wage in a given area (i.e. doing so for altruistic, not prudent business reasons) wouldn't necessarily help those currently receiving what would otherwise be considered a fair wage. It would, to some extent, push lower skill workers out in favor of higher skill workers willing to accept those higher wages.
The point, I suppose, is this: To the extent we'd like to see an increasing standard of living in other areas of the world, our outsourcing of production to those areas is likely helping on that front - at least it's helping in general. But it can't effect a sudden massive change on that front without being disruptive in ways that might ultimately prove problematic for them. It has to gradually help pull them toward a higher standard of living. People in China choose to do work for us fairly cheaply - cheaply from our perspective, not necessarily from theirs. They do that not because they think it harms them, but because they think it helps them.
Understood. I'm certainly interested in hearing the thoughts of others, as I hope most here are.
I’ll agree with most of what you said except your conclusion. The professional class has the money and political clout to prevent being replaced like low and middle class workers have been.
Apple really needs to get their priorities straight... I mean: https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...a-mount-fueling-new-episode-of-repair-anxiety
Yes. I definitely wanted one. But today .... “I bought a Dell”.
I just read the article you quoted. It was interesting read. But I’m not sure what the point you were making was. The article explained the nuances and pros/cons of different material choices... and it doesn’t sound like there is a clear/obvious choice to make.
Why not? We want more and more cheaper stuff and corporate wants more profit while lowering prices?
Would you want pay more for same of the stuff just to bring manufacturing job back? I for one, won’t.
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Why? Please elaborate why Apple should making significant amount of its stuff in N.A. I assume you only mean United States.
And what or. It democracy has anything to do with manufacturing?
American’s logic sometimes beyond me.
Exactly, but a whole LOT of things weren't very smart about the 2013 Mac Pro's design, including the lack of ability to upgrade the video chipset to newer generations because of a lack of ability to cool them sufficiently in that enclosure. The lack of support for more than 1 internal SSD was another.
They designed and marketed the thing as more of a boutique item than a truly mass-produced computer, which is the ONLY reason they made that commitment to build it all in the USA in the first place. They had to try to sell it based on ideas like that, to supplement the value proposition of what you really got for the price.
They designed and marketed the thing as more of a boutique item than a truly mass-produced computer, which is the ONLY reason they made that commitment to build it all in the USA in the first place. They had to try to sell it based on ideas like that, to supplement the value proposition of what you really got for the price.
RE: "The report reveals an interesting anecdote about the latest Mac Pro. In late 2012, Apple CEO Tim Cook touted that the computer would be "Made in the USA," but sales were supposedly postponed by months in part because Apple could not secure enough custom screws for the computer from U.S.-based suppliers. "
So, a company with a Market Cap north of $700B can't make their own custom screws in quantity ... I would have expected that even Cook could have pulled that off ! ... Jobs would have multiple Machine Shops churning them out !!
So, a company with a Market Cap north of $700B can't make their own custom screws in quantity ... I would have expected that even Cook could have pulled that off ! ... Jobs would have multiple Machine Shops churning them out !!
Pretty laughable some of these forum know-it-all types seem to think Apple has poor supply chain.
Apple is consistently ranked #1 in the world by Gartner as having the best supply chain and best practices. This is inline with peers like P&G and Amazon meaning sustained leadership over a decade.
I'm sure you guys could do a better job and could work for a Fortune Global 500. You just prefer not to.
Apple is consistently ranked #1 in the world by Gartner as having the best supply chain and best practices. This is inline with peers like P&G and Amazon meaning sustained leadership over a decade.
I'm sure you guys could do a better job and could work for a Fortune Global 500. You just prefer not to.
Actually, a major reason why a lot of science/technology/engineering/math jobs, and STEM graduate school departments, are no longer filled by US applicants is because large, US multinational corporations want to hire STEM graduates as either "postdocs" or "contract" workers without providing the relative employment security and the traditional benefits (pension, healthcare, stock purchase plans, etc) provided by permanent, full-time positions. Hence, there are no longer the same incentives for talented US students to pursue a STEM career that there were in the 1960s-1980s and many of these people understandably go into more lucrative fields like finance, etc.
American industry has reaped what it has sowed....
America scores unimpressively in the middle of the pack in academic achievement, whether that's reading, math, or science. The U.S. ranks 14th among 37 OECD and G20 countries.
It's romantic to believe the U.S. doesn't need technical school graduates to operate manufacturing jobs. But the reality is otherwise.
Any idea how much Apple was paying per screw? I find it hard to believe that an order for about 25,000 screws would have been worthwhile to the manufacturer unless Apple was paying a large premium.
That classism is always going to exist in a capitalistic society. Everyone isn't going to have equal money & wealth. Some people are going to be poor because we value people differently.
And in our modern economy, we are saying "people with an education are worth more than people without" resulting in economic differences between the two.
I know immigrants think this is fine because they are always working to build their next generation by providing them a proper education, instead of themselves.
Ha, what a bunch of spin of the facts. I have inside knowledge of this issue. Yes, they needed a larger supply chain of screws, but they had massive failures during testing of other components. Tell the truth and the truth will set you free. The age of Apple is in its twilight.
it's really REALLY hard to tell.
Apple's problem with thte Mac Pro is they designed a super ultra niche product, slapped on the "Mac Pro" badge that was on a different product before, and then claimed nobody wants it when sales tanked.
if the 2013 mac Pro had followed the industry standards in regards to pricing and functionality, would it have seen the same massive declines? We don't know.
But it really looks like Apple put themselves into a catch22 with the Mac Pro.
We all know that certain jobs are going away due in part of the automation and using robots. Why can’t the USA and Europe not compete on robotics? We have the best software companies and could take the lead in this new age.
I remember when the car industry almost lost to the production industry in Japan. I remember seeing movies from Mazda where they showed highly automated factories and even VW had make there Golf made by Honda for a certain period of time.
It’s like history is repeating. First they copy, then they innovate.
I don’t buy this at all. There are literally hundreds of places that can make those screws in the U.S.
Unfortunately, yes this is going happen.
There is so many paths of discussion (philosophical discussions) that can come from this topic(article), and you can read through the comments and see the opposing views on the various points. I try to help people understand that truth isn't a singular thing; it has different existences.
Someone says Americans don't want this kind of work, another says we do. I think both of these statement are true. BUT, as a generalization, I don't believe people would choose to have a job where they assembled some portion of a phone or computer, day in and day out. I don't believe the Chinese workers would choose it they had another choice.
The NYT times ran an article back in 2012 talking about iPhone manufacturing in China (lot's of similar points).
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/...d-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all
The same observation then, we don't have the manpower with technical knowledge as China has.
Could we? We put a man on the moon, so we must be able to, right? The moon statement is true - of course we could if wanted. But, at what cost literally and figuratively. The same argument applies to closing the border, gun confiscation, universal healthcare, or any topic "du jour". We spent and consumed so much in resources to achieve the goal (one I very much believed in) to go to the moon.
Are we going suspend the labor rights/quality of life rights that we have in this country? Are we going to spend a part of someone's life for the training for this...only to disregard them when it isn't necessary anymore? What do we do with then?
To circle back, I don't know what the world will look like, good or bad, but I absolutely believe to my core that the time is coming (quicker than I suspect most people think) when we have no jobs because everything will be replaced by machines and AI. Data and analytics from data, are driving us to be robots...before the actual robots are even here. Medicine is all protocol based; the same formulaic idea applies to any industry and best practices.
I believe as a society, we have a credibility problem by telling students to learn for a better job and better future, when that future is going to vanish. (To be clear, I love learning, and am not saying people shouldn't learn.) What jobs will they have? The manufacturing jobs are an example of a much larger problem. What will we all do, when it isn't necessary for us to do? I think the idleness of mankind will show some awful realities of civilization.