2013 MLB Season Thread

[Queen of Spades]

Fine, but this isn't the first time that has happened, but it is rare that it is overturned.

There needs to be more consistency. These are supposed to be the best umps doing the world series, calls like that should not happen at all.

They're human. That's why there are 6 of them in the postseason, so they have more angles covered and can get the calls right. There's too much at stake, and teams work way too hard to get where they are. And umpires don't want to influence the game negatively by making bad calls.

So why don't they confer all the time!! How many blown calls have there been this year alone that don't get changed that were blatant.

Even Farrell said he was surprised they changed it.

A perfect game doesn't matter, those only happen maybe 3 times a year?

If I was a Yankee fan I would be pissed if the umps didn't change it. But there were plenty of calls that they didn't change that hurt the Yankees.

The umpires confer way more now than they ever did. It's a good thing, all that should matter is getting the call right.

The umpires conferred on A-Rod's slap play in 2004. Same with Bellhorn's HR. Both changed and called correctly.

Macnut,

Are you still sore over the umps correctly calling ARod out when he knocked the ball out of the Red Sox glove back in '04?

That wasn't a close or hard to tell play. The ball never went into the glove. He never had control of it.

Bingo. And I've seen the umpires confer during the regular season too - it happens now more than ever. All that matters is getting the call right as much as humanly possible. They're humans, but if they talk, they have a better chance of getting it right. This will be a moot conversation next season, but I can't believe people are arguing FOR wrong calls.

 

[quagmire]

To me that was A-Rod being a dick and he could have been called for interference. MY problem is the inconsistency with the umps in general. Instant reply could not come soon enough. And then there unwritten rule to never ask for help or change a botched call.

So pretty much you want an all or nothing approach? Either gather the umps for every close play or let every botched call stand....

I can't stand how inconsistent umps can be when it comes to going over close plays where the other umps may have had a better view. But, to say they shouldn't have corrected that initial out call due to the inconsistency is ridiculous.

 

[63dot]

Explain the neighborhood play than. The SS or 2B never touches the bag but gets the call. Should those be outlawed.

That is a good point. I don't know what they will do with that one.

I think on its face what we saw was different enough to be seen as a unique thing and "probably" an error and thus rendering runner safe at second base. I can see the coaches on the Cardinals side getting pissed and rightly so but if the runner was called out I would have blown my top if I was the Boston manager.

The announcer had said he never saw anything like this and while the umps word is the final say, there could technically be a conference and turnover of original call. Yes, it's rare and I have never seen this either but later in snippet with Red Sox manager, he has seen this before and been on the wrong side of such a call.

Just because few have seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I saw what happened like the rest of us and it appeared reasonable. However, if I had not watched it and knew a professional ump was right there, saw it, and called and out, but then heard the other umps conferred and overturned it, I would have not believed it.

While I think it was right to go in Boston's favor, I have never seen something as odd as a ump conference in baseball, ever. I understand both sides of the heated debate there. And watching it back full speed, it becomes less clear what really happened. Had this not been a time where you could see a slo-mo, it's then just as reasonable to say runner was out at second base.

Bad call or not, this night was clearly Boston's night. There may be more bad calls and they may end up in favor of the Cardinals but what is the best thing we have is that both teams are equally matched and I hope this doesn't turn into a war of words over what the right call should have been. While there may be close games, and maybe even to a bad call, I think the team who wins will do so without the world thinking the trophy was mistakenly handed to a team via a bad call. Chances are the team that pitches better will definitely win the WS, and the team who hits better will have a slight edge with that. I think it could come down to who has the better bullpen. We may want to see grand slams and the like but the real heroes will probably be pitchers doing what we saw with Lester tonight.

 

[Queen of Spades]

I have never seen something as odd as a ump conference in baseball, ever.

It happens quite a bit in baseball nowadays.

 

[quagmire]

While I think it was right to go in Boston's favor, I have never seen something as odd as a ump conference in baseball, ever. I understand both sides of the heated debate there. And watching it back full speed, it becomes less clear what really happened. Had this not been a time where you could see a slo-mo, it's then just as reasonable to say runner was out at second base.

You have never seen the umpires confer with each other about a play? ALCS '04 ring a bell? They initially called ARod safe before they got together and correctly ruled him out when he knocked the ball out of the glove. They even mentioned it was the second time it happened in the game.

 

[63dot]

It happens quite a bit in baseball nowadays.

There are so many teams and with 162 games in season I am sure rare stuff like this happens. What happened was rare, yes, but not unprecedented but rare enough for somebody who watches like me not to have seen it. Umps in conference talking? (Yes, but rarely, but umps overturned a call? ... never seen that just like the announcers who do this for a living have never seen this, either). But since I don't watch all 162 games from every team, and not even half of that for just my team, it's not strange I have never seen an ump conference and overturned call.

If you have seen something exactly like this before, I call your BS on that one. The announcers have never seen this so I wouldn't say a conference and overturned call is "all the time." That being said, umps got it right, runner safe resulting in bases loaded.

I don't recall any ump conferences in 30+ years of watching baseball where a call actually got overturned. I saw it tonight and within context of having seen it shown a few times from different angles, it makes sense. Ump made bad call and it had to be overturned.

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You have never seen the umpires confer with each other about a play? ALCS '04 ring a bell? They initially called ARod safe before they got together and correctly ruled him out when he knocked the ball out of the glove. They even mentioned it was the second time it happened in the game.

The A-Rod thing I Googled after they mentioned it with what happened tonight at second base. Umps called it safe, A-Rod was caught, then was out. Jeter coming in didn't count. Wow, A-Rod deserves the hate! As you know I am not a Yankees fan, and as great as A-Rod is as a player, this move sucks and I am glad they called him out.

 

[quagmire]

The A-Rod thing I Googled after they mentioned it with what happened tonight at second base. Umps called it safe, A-Rod was caught, then was out. Jeter coming in didn't count. Wow, A-Rod deserves the hate!

Oh he does. He also yelled, " I got it!" to confuse the SS and 3B which caused the ball to drop. Didn't get caught then by the umps, but audio on TV got it.....

 

[63dot]

Oh he does. He also yelled, " I got it!" to confuse the SS and 3B which caused the ball to drop. Didn't get caught then by the umps, but audio on TV got it.....

This sucks and reminds me of old manager of my Giants (John McGraw). He allegedly used to trip opposing team's runners back when there were not enough umps to see everything! I wonder how many of my NY Giants trophies are legit! I know there were some dirty things in football back then, but the McGraw thing turned my stomach.

 

[ViciousShadow21]

video

That's the epitome of foreshadowing. A-Rod is such a dink.

 

[yg17]

Armando Galarraga is probably wondering why the umpires didn't talk to each other when Jim Joyce blew that call at first to take away his perfect game.

 

[zioxide]

Why don't the umps try to get it right every time, there should be no well everyone is watching this game so we are going to do our jobs. They should always be doing their jobs not just in the world series.

If they have refused to change the call that would have saved a perfect game why not refuse a call that could save a world series game.

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That should not matter as the umps are supposed to get it right every time, not one game a year.

So why not do that for every bad call, and why wait until the manager complains. If they know it was bad they should fix it right away. This is why baseball is a joke sometimes.

Fine, but this isn't the first time that has happened, but it is rare that it is overturned.

There needs to be more consistency. These are supposed to be the best umps doing the world series, calls like that should not happen at all.

I gotta say, it's pretty ironic you're complaining about the umps here because you don't like the Red Sox when you were giving me crap just the other day about complaining about the refs in the Patriots/Jets game.



How about that game last night? Lester was lights out. So glad to see how he's turned it around after last year.

 

[tktaylor1]

Last nights game was more of not the Cardinals night than it was Bostons night. Almost of all our runs came directly after an error of some sort. Im just glad to see Bostons offense back, good lord. The offense in the ALCS was painful to watch. I wouldnt mind seeing another sweep for the Sox.

 

[MacNut]

How about that game last night? Lester was lights out. So glad to see how he's turned it around after last year.

Reports now that he was using an unknown substance.

 

[Queen of Spades]

Reports now that he was using an unknown substance.

Reports? You mean a video from a Cardinals minor leaguer that shows nothing?

This is really, really sad. Lester pitches his ass off (as he's done throughout the playoffs, by the way) and some whiny Cardinals minor league nobody has to post this BS and take the credit away from him. How ridiculous, infuriating, and PATHETIC. And of course Red Sox haters will latch onto this like it's gospel, when every single thing that's come out from informed parties says it isn't true.

When the Tigers pitchers were kicking the Red Sox's ass, they took it like men and tipped their cap.

MLB refutes accusation about Lester made by St. Louis minor leaguer

The web site Deadspin published the accusation and linked to a brief video produced by a Cardinals fan.

Said an MLB spokesman: “We cannot draw any conclusions from this video. There were no complaints from the Cardinals, and the umpires never detected anything indicating a foreign substance throughout the game.”

The Cardinals had 40 or so people in their dugout for the game. There also were six umpires on the field.

Lester also threw predominantly fastballs during the game. A review of pitch charts showed no pitches with unusual breaking action that a foreign substance would produce.

It also seems unlikely that Lester would put a substance on his glove in full view of the Cardinals, the umpires and television cameras.

Now I hope the Red Sox grind the Cardinals into the dirt.

 

[yg17]

Reports? You mean a video from a Cardinals minor leaguer that shows nothing?

This is really, really sad. Lester pitches his ass off (as he's done throughout the playoffs, by the way) and some whiny Cardinals minor league nobody has to post this BS and take the credit away from him. How ridiculous, infuriating, and PATHETIC. And of course Red Sox haters will latch onto this like it's gospel, when every single thing that's come out from informed parties says it isn't true.

When the Tigers pitchers were kicking the Red Sox's ass, they took it like men and tipped their cap.

MLB refutes accusation about Lester made by St. Louis minor leaguer



Now I hope the Red Sox grind the Cardinals into the dirt.

Because a single A ballplayer that no one has ever heard of represents the entire Cardinals organization

Maybe you'd have a story when Beltran, Freese, Molina or Waino tweeted that out. But this is some unknown pitcher in single A, who is already 25 years old and will probably never make it out of single A.

 

[Plutonius]

So why don't they confer all the time!!

They explained it last night during the game.

1) They rarely confer except if someone makes a request. The Red Sox manager didn't argue the call but instead requested with the original umpire that the umpires confer with each other. The original umpire can decide if he wants to request a conference or not. In this case, he realized his mistake and requested a conference.

2) The other umpires will only join the conference if they have a definite opinion on the call. In this case, all the other umpires agreed that the original umpire made a bad call.

 

[Queen of Spades]

Because a single A ballplayer that no one has ever heard of represents the entire Cardinals organization

Maybe you'd have a story when Beltran, Freese, Molina or Waino tweeted that out. But this is some unknown pitcher in single A, who is already 25 years old and will probably never make it out of single A.

I hear what you're saying, but he's still being referred to as a Cardinals pitcher, and this is going to be all over the media today. It's ********. It's already a story. The emphasis should be on Lester pitching great, and this "accusation" is going to change that. It's unfair and it's really lame. I mean, we'll see, maybe journalistic integrity will dictate this "story" isn't a thing, but somehow I doubt it.

And Wainwright was pretty impressive in his post game remarks. Easy to see why he's the #1.

 

[Plutonius]

I hear what you're saying, but he's still being referred to as a Cardinals pitcher, and this is going to be all over the media today. It's ********. It's already a story.

I put the fault on Cardinal management. It was a minor league pitcher but the Cardinals didn't really go out of their way to refute the story.

 

[Queen of Spades]

I put the fault on Cardinal management. It was a minor league pitcher but the Cardinals didn't really go out of their way to refute the story.

Well, it seems they have now:

Cards GM John Mozeliak describes flap over Lester's glove as "a non-issue" and will not pursue it w/MLB.

- source

There's apparently been a conversation as well between Cards FO and prospect Melling.

Following talk w/FO, Cards prospect has deleted tweet in question.

- source

I sorta feel like it's akin to trying to put toothpaste back into a tube, but the Cards did what they could to knock that off, so it's appreciated.

edit: Yeah, just what I thought was going to happen. From CNN's homepage:

 

[63dot]

Now that (I hope) the allegations are over we can go onto game 2. People saw what Lester could do as a pitcher and if the rest of the Red Sox are anything like him we can see a sweep. The entire team's game was on and at the right time.

It would be bad for the Red Sox and all of baseball if it was found later that Lester cheated. Anyway whatever the outcome of whether he cheated or not if the Red Sox win, it's their trophy. I was sad when my Giants lost against the Angels in 2002 but when I later found out just how much steroids allegedly played a part in Bonds and his career, then I am kind of glad we didn't win. World Series glory would come later. Had we taken home that 2002 WS and with Bonds big hitting in that series, there would be a mental asterisk next to that victory like a mark of shame.

We can, as fans, probably forgive individuals doping up during the season but if it makes a big impact in the WS, then it detracts from the whole team. Even if it's later proven that only Lester doped up, it puts suspicion on all their pitchers. Even if the Cardinals lose and can't hit well, they could pin in on Lester and his doping and get a moral victory from all this.

I don't think in this case Lester doped, and neither do others in Cardinals organization (as stated earlier from Queen of Spades), and this game was fair and square and a Boston rout of St. Louis.

The Boston haters will probably only pursue the Lester doping allegation if the Red Sox win. But if the Cardinals win, any concern about Lester and game 1 will be an afterthought. Like mentioned before, Lester threw fastballs and I can't think of any substance that helps a fastball. It's not as if there were some really strange trajectories of the pitches. Now if a pitcher in question has a well defined career of fastballs and has been shown largely ineffective as a curveball pitcher and then suddenly one game he starts throwing loopy unhittable Barry Zito type curves or becomes RA Dickey, then there's a cause for suspicion.

 

[MacNut]

All pitchers dope the ball, the good ones hide it. Kenny Rogers was one of the more blatant ones at it. The reason the Cards are not making an issue out of it is they want their pitcher to do it too.

 

[63dot]

All pitchers dope the ball, the good ones hide it. Kenny Rogers was one of the more blatant ones at it. The reason the Cards are not making an issue out of it is they want their pitcher to do it too.

We know some pitchers do it but I hope it's not widespread today. With very little in terms of skill separating the best team from one that is in last place there's an incentive to cheat. Unlike football or basketball, it's not unusual for a terrible team to rout the best team the way this sport works.

We know Lester is a good pitcher (decent 3.75 ERA) who had a great night last night. I just hope that little extra he had was not due to cheating. I want to think that Lester, and the whole team, pulled themselves out of a miserable year last year and built themselves into a formidable team.

I think the issue of Lester cheating will not be mentioned after the game tonight, especially if the Cardinals win.

And if Lester was cheating, would be be as dumb to have a huge, visible wad of goop on his glove in front of national TV? If there is cheating it's not going to be that visible, especially with whole world watching the WS.

 

[Queen of Spades]

We know Lester is a good pitcher who had a great night last night. I just hope that little extra he had was not due to cheating. I want to think that Lester, and the whole team, pulled themselves out of a miserable year last year and built themselves into a formidable team.

He didn't have "that little extra." He's been pitching great all postseason (hello, he lost to Sanchez in game 1 of the ALCS by a score of 1-0), and again, he threw a majority of fastballs. Not the kind of pitch that "goop" or anything helps. None of his pitches were doing any funny dives or something indicative of strange movement - hitters would notice that immediately.

It's well known the Cardinals (like the Red Sox, mind you) have issues with lefties. And Lester is a powerful lefty. Nothing about what he did last night was out of the ordinary. When he can command both sides of the plate, as he did, that's the kind of result he gets.

 

[tktaylor1]

Reports now that he was using an unknown substance.

Really? The ump checks the ball and switches balls every 3rd pitch or so. Dont you think he wouldve felt some kind of substance. Why would Lester cheat? He has 1000 cameras on him and is on the biggest stage in baseball. Plus, that came from a biased Cardinals minor league pitcher. Plus, pitchers shouldnt be allowed to lick their damn fingers after every pitch to help with the grip. Thats just as much cheating as any other substance in my opinion.

 

[einmusiker]

I'm not watching the series but I'm glad to see the Cards got POUNDED last night