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The only thing that really pisses me off about the call is the whole reason Craig tripped over Middlebrooks is because when Craig gets up to run home his first few steps are towards 2nd, then he realizes hes running the wrong way, reverses, and then trips over Middlebrooks. Craig put himself out of position and took himself off the baseline. What's Middlebrooks supposed to do? If Craig gets up and runs straight home instead of starting out towards second base, Middlebrooks isn't in his way and he wouldn't have tripped over anything. Of course if that happens he probably beats the throw home anyways, but still, I would have rather seen the game decided like that by the players on the field than the umpires.


Doesn't change the fact that Saltalamacchia was a moron for trying to throw the guy out at 3rd anyways. Sox butchered that 9th inning on both sides of the ball.

Joe Torre, Hirschbeck, Joyce all sat down for a post game interview and a reporter asked the question about Craig being inside the baseline. The answer was basically after Craig stood up from his slide on the second base side he was turning, tripped,and then right on top of the chalk. Hirschbeck followed that with, remember that the base runner establishes his own baseline, and then uses an example of rounding the bag really wide.

Bottom line, the path from third to home is established by the runner, not the chalk line. I did some digging and the only time there is an established baseman is if the runner is trying to avoid a tag.... Then it's three feet on either side of the bag.

What I found interesting about all of this is that although Joyce called obstruction, Demuth could have chosen to not apply it if he had thought Craig didn't have a legit chance of scoring, but since the throw and runner were so close he gave it to him.

So it's black and white what obstruction is, but judgement call as to whether or not award the runner the next base.

Also Joe Torre's comments were interesting...... He is pretty firm that it's was the right call based on the rule book, but admitted it was unfair in the situation in that Middlebrooks really couldn't do anything different other than leave his legs flat which was a non factor anyway.

Hat tip to the umps... Good eye. Still a crappy way to end a game.
 
After watching the replays several times, it actually looks like the baserunner pushed down on the fielder's back as the fielder was trying to get out of the way. The baserunner then tripped on the fielder's legs because he was unable to get out of the way because of the actions of the baserunner.

I have no stake in the outcome of the series. I'd be happy for Boston to win because of what happened this spring and I think St. Louis is a very respectable organization as far as how they handle themselves on and off the field.
 
After watching the replays several times, it actually looks like the baserunner pushed down on the fielder's back as the fielder was trying to get out of the way. The baserunner then tripped on the fielder's legs because he was unable to get out of the way because of the actions of the baserunner.

I have no stake in the outcome of the series. I'd be happy for Boston to win because of what happened this spring and I think St. Louis is a very respectable organization as far as how they handle themselves on and off the field.

Middlebrooks looks like he thought about getting out of the way, dropped, and then got back up. I'm not sure he would have been able to move out of the way if he wanted to, even without hesitation.

But to your first observation. If middlebrooks wasn't in the way in the first place he would have not been pushed down. Craig was doing what he had too to get to home plate.

I'm super homer biased for the cardinals, but am pretty level headed for these calls. Tough break.

I'm one of the few that doesn't dwell on Denkingers awful World Series game 6 call... That runner that was called safe never scored a run so they got that out back. Poor execution on the Cardinals part lost them that game.
 
What I found interesting about all of this is that although Joyce called obstruction, Demuth could have chosen to not apply it if he had thought Craig didn't have a legit chance of scoring, but since the throw and runner were so close he gave it to him.

You would think if Joyce was going to make a game deciding call he would make sure he was looking at the play.

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Even more interesting, if the runner had made a move toward second base, did he re-touch third on his way home, doesn't he have to? I know that if a player rounds second on a fly ball and has to return to first he has to touch second again on his way back to first.

Had the runner not made that move back toward second there would have been no issue, the fielder would not have been in the way.
 
You would think if Joyce was going to make a game deciding call he would make sure he was looking at the play.

Image

His attention was split but he saw what he needed to see in the frames after that screen shot.... he saw Craig Fall because Middlebrooks was in his way.

I think Torre and the boys will be looking into this one in the offseason.

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Even more interesting, if the runner had made a move toward second base, did he re-touch third on his way home, doesn't he have to? I know that if a player rounds second on a fly ball and has to return to first he has to touch second again on his way back to first.

Had the runner not made that move back toward second there would have been no issue, the fielder would not have been in the way.

I think this is a bit of a stretch. Craig was getting up from a slide... he wasnt making a run back to second, nor did he have a reason too.

He was trying to find his footing after a slide made a few awkward steps before tripping over middlebrooks and then went on his merry way.

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This series will not make the HOF for best played. It's like both teams are looking for ways to lose.

There are spectacular chokes here but it makes the series that much more fun. At the same time some batters on both sides had a few memorable hits, too and there was some good pitching. I think so far this series already has some things people will be talking about for years, especially the third baseman obstruction.

Ortiz has been off the hook.
 
And just like that,,,,,, the Sox's are one win away!

At least the Sox only have to win one of the next two. Their two best pitchers are done for the series (Lester, Buchholz) and Wacha will be hard to beat in game six. And then Peavy is pitching a potential game 7. The Red Sox are going to need all the momentum they've built up to get that last win. It won't be easy.
 
There are spectacular chokes here but it makes the series that much more fun. At the same time some batters on both sides had a few memorable hits, too and there was some good pitching. I think so far this series already has some things people will be talking about for years, especially the third baseman obstruction.

Ortiz has been off the hook.

the new kung fu panda...?

:p
 
At least the Sox only have to win one of the next two. Their two best pitchers are done for the series (Lester, Buchholz) and Wacha will be hard to beat in game six. And then Peavy is pitching a potential game 7. The Red Sox are going to need all the momentum they've built up to get that last win. It won't be easy.

Umm Buchholz is not one of their best pitchers since he got hurt midway thru the season. That second place honor definitely goes to Lackey. Other than Lester, there is no one I would rather have on the mound for game 6.
 
Umm Buchholz is not one of their best pitchers since he got hurt midway thru the season. That second place honor definitely goes to Lackey. Other than Lester, there is no one I would rather have on the mound for game 6.

Buchholz has done pretty well since returning. But I know what you mean. He's been fatigued in the post season. Lackey pitched an inning in game four, right? Hopefully he's fully rested for game six. I agree, other than Lester he's the one I'd most like pitching game six. I'd hate for it all to come down to Peavy in a game seven situation.
 
the new kung fu panda...?

:p

Between chores and others stuff I would watch the games. Only last night did I see him hit something that got caught. His postseason BA must be some sort of Boston or AL or all time MLB record. It's inspiring to see someone this late in career put out like that. The same goes with Koji. How many 37 and 38 year olds have this type of late career in any sport other than golf? The only one that comes to mind with that is Willie Stargell. Also John Elway had late career success but he was more along for the ride (only 1 TD pass in last two Super Bowls) instead of the "key" player of a championship. If Boston wins, the MVP will go either to Ortiz or Koji. I would give it to Ortiz for both HRs and hitting for average. Koji, considering his earlier career, is peaking way over normal play throughout career. If he's like this next year, then watch out.
 
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Between chores and others stuff I would watch the games. Only last night did I see him hit something that got caught. His postseason BA must be some sort of Boston or AL or all time MLB record. It's inspiring to see someone this late in career put out like that. The same goes with Koji. How many 37 and 38 year olds have this type of late career in any sport other than golf? The only one that comes to mind with that is Willie Stargell. Also John Elway had late career success but he was more along for the ride (only 1 TD pass in last two Super Bowls) instead of the "key" player of a championship. If Boston wins, the MVP will go either to Ortiz or Koji. I would give it to Ortiz for both HRs and hitting for average. Koji, considering his earlier career, is peaking way over normal play throughout career. If he's like this next year, then watch out.

It's Ortiz and its not even remotely close. He could win the MVP even if the Sox lose. He's been that dominant. Dude's hitting .737 for the World Series. He came into the game last night hitting .727 and raised his average!! Ridiculous. He has the highest career World Series batting average in MLB history.

Oh and Lester would win it before Koji too. Tied Babe Ruth last night for most career World Series wins as a Sox left hander.
 
.737 is so far up there that if he never gets another hit he will still be in good shape. This has been the David Ortiz World Series brought to you by David Ortiz.

If the Sox win they should put him on his own duck boat and let the rest of the batters push it.
 
I am way too superstitious to engage in any MVP talk at this point, but what a special team and a special year. After the horror of 2011/2012, I had very low expectations for this season and having watched this team blossom into an incredibly hard working, likable group has been truly enjoyable. It's a Red Sox team I feel incredibly proud of.

I really, really wanted to beat the Rays and felt like anything after that was gravy, even though I believed this team was complete and could beat anyone after watching them during the regular season. Now that they're so close, I really want them to finish the job.

David Ortiz is simply amazing and I feel very fortunate to have been able to watch him do his thing for the past 10+ years. Go Sox. :)
 
I am way too superstitious to engage in any MVP talk at this point, but what a special team and a special year. After the horror of 2011/2012, I had very low expectations for this season and having watched this team blossom into an incredibly hard working, likable group has been truly enjoyable. It's a Red Sox team I feel incredibly proud of.

I really, really wanted to beat the Rays and felt like anything after that was gravy, even though I believed this team was complete and could beat anyone after watching them during the regular season. Now that they're so close, I really want them to finish the job.

David Ortiz is simply amazing and I feel very fortunate to have been able to watch him do his thing for the past 10+ years. Go Sox. :)

It should be the best of honors and I am not worried for you. He's your Babe Ruth. If a team loses a WS yet still puts an MVP deserving of the title, it's that guy.

I also just wanted to make an honorable mention of your closer Koji. He's so good that when he's about to pitch I go into kitchen to make microwave popcorn but when the popcorn is done and I am ready to watch his half of the inning, it's over. He can put away guys 1-2-3 quicker than anybody I have ever seen, my Giants' closers Wilson and Romo included. Your 8th inning guy is also fantastic as are your starters.

The series is coming back to Boston and unless the Cardinals pull off some miracle and their guys start hitting big, I think you will remember 2013 as yours. Maybe some of the real, long-lasting pressure comes the year after you win a series. My team dropped the ball, in more ways than one in 2011 and 2013 the years after we won the big series. To win a WS is huge as I saw only 2 in 50 years but back to back is tough and often only the Yankees type of thing to realistically expect.

That being said, while I hope you win, I want to see this thing go to 7. My football team is predictably good and actually boring. Other sports are not superheated right now so the only thing that can make late-October/early-November exciting is a 7 game series when no team I root for is in it. The 7th game of a WS is, imho, the greatest moment in American sports, and what I considered the greatest before I was even a serious baseball fan. The 7th NBA game in a final is almost as big as is any Super Bowl, but game 7 of world series is epic, especially if won in 9th inning and at home! The way this thing has been going, that's a possibility.
 
I also just wanted to make an honorable mention of your closer Koji. He's so good that when he's about to pitch I go into kitchen to make microwave popcorn but when the popcorn is done and I am ready to watch his half of the inning, it's over. He can put away guys 1-2-3 quicker than anybody I have ever seen

He's been utterly amazing all season. When Hanrahan and Bailey went down, I was quite worried - but again, I really didn't have huge expectations for this year. I was hoping to be respectable again while waiting for our kids to get ready to contribute in the next couple of seasons. He became absolutely automatic for us, and it was pretty amazing. It solidified our bullpen and helped the Red Sox become contenders. His contributions in the postseason are clear to everyone, but he's been doing that for us all season. He's a champ.

That said, I'm glad we only have 1 or 2 games left, he looks like he's starting to fatigue a bit to me. I've noticed his pitches have been up in the zone a lot more than they have been all season.

63dot said:
That being said, while I hope you win, I want to see this thing go to 7.

Ha ha, I don't. There have been so many 1 run nailbiters, crazy occurrences and other things this postseason. I'm sure non-Red Sox and non-Cardinals fans would love it, but I'm really hoping the Sox end it tomorrow night. I might be single if the Red Sox don't win this, and if they do, I owe my girlfriend a really, really, really nice present. :)

It's insane to me that John Lackey could be on the mound to clinch a WS for the Red Sox. If you would have told me that last year or 2 years ago...what a complete redemption. I couldn't have written a better script, here's hoping he finishes it.
 
Ha ha, I don't. There have been so many 1 run nailbiters, crazy occurrences and other things this postseason. I'm sure non-Red Sox and non-Cardinals fans would love it, but I'm really hoping the Sox end it tomorrow night. I might be single if the Red Sox don't win this, and if they do, I owe my girlfriend a really, really, really nice present. :)

Girlfriend? Do tell and what does it have to do with baseball? Now you have me intrigued! :)

Also, what kind of nice present, and would it be a bribe?:eek:
 
I am way too superstitious to engage in any MVP talk at this point, but what a special team and a special year. After the horror of 2011/2012, I had very low expectations for this season and having watched this team blossom into an incredibly hard working, likable group has been truly enjoyable. It's a Red Sox team I feel incredibly proud of.

I really, really wanted to beat the Rays and felt like anything after that was gravy, even though I believed this team was complete and could beat anyone after watching them during the regular season. Now that they're so close, I really want them to finish the job.

David Ortiz is simply amazing and I feel very fortunate to have been able to watch him do his thing for the past 10+ years. Go Sox. :)

This season has been an unexpected treat. After last year I thought it would take the Red Sox another four or five years to become contenders. When they were winning earlier this year it felt as though it was with smoke and mirrors and wouldn't last. Now they have become a solid team. It's too bad it will all end one way or the other in a couple of days.

The collapse of 2011 and last year's terrible record would make any fan superstitious. But did you experience the ignominy of 1986? One strike away in game 6? Bruce Hurst being announced as series MVP in what was supposed to be the final at bat of the series? That one took years to get over.
 
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