2015 MLB Hot Stove?

[AustinIllini]

I live in Houston! So I know about bad baseball! Thank God for mlb.tv!

When I was growing up the Yanks stunk and the Mets were good and I was taught that my 2 favorite teams were the Yanks and whoever was playing the Mets! Back then, they had no effect on each other either. No interleague, no dreams of a subway series. We just hated them.

After the 2000 World Series the hate died a bit, and now that I'm not in NY anymore, I'll watch them. I just don't think it's possible to ever like them. Or root for them to win. Accept if they're playing against a division rival.

Most of my family members are Cub fans, so I always wind up conflicted.

I'll tell you what though; the idea that the Cubs and White Sox are a serious divide of any value in Chicago is mostly a myth.

 

[MacNut]

Lester is expected to sign tonight, might be a bidding war between Cubs and Red Sox.

 

[MacNut]

Breaking News: Via Ken Rosenthal. Jon Lester to the Cubs.

6 years $155M.

Vesting option for 7th year.

Giants offered $150M for 6. Didn't want to go 7.

Boston offered $135M for 6.

 

[dannyyankou]

Wow.

 

[MacNut]

Chicago is loading up. Cubs and Sox.

 

[maflynn]

Breaking News: Via Ken Rosenthal. Jon Lester to the Cubs.

6 years $155M.

Vesting option for 7th year.

Giants offered $150M for 6. Didn't want to go 7.

Boston offered $135M for 6.

I can't believe the papers here really thought Lester was going to come here, or they could offer a home town rate for someone they traded away last year.

I also think spending upwards of 135 to 155 million dollars on a six year contract for a player on the wrong side of 30 is a smart idea.

He's truly a gifted pitcher, but will he be a 155 million dollar pitcher at age 33 or 34? The odds are against him.

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Don't get me wrong, its not sour grapes, I long thought it was a mistake to offer an aging pitcher that much money for such a long term contract. I wish him well, he was a great person here in Boston and the team will definitely miss him. They are in serious need of pitching right now.

 

[zioxide]

**** John Henry & Larry Lucchino. Should have not been insulting cheapskates last spring and signed him to an extension then. As soon as that didn't happen and they gave him that insulting offer, he was as good as gone.

I hope Lester can take the Cubs to the playoffs and finally end that series drought for them. That would cement his legacy.

Meanwhile John Henry's legacy is cemented as the guy who is okay with finishing last every other year. They got lucky in 2013 riding David Ortiz's bat and the emotions of the events that happened at the Marathon and ownership thinks that gives them a free pass to field a garbage team while they rake in the $$$.

 

[AustinIllini]

Cubs look good, but a number of their prospects have to pan out for them to really be competitive. So far, it looks like Kris Bryant is fantastic. Still need another pitching piece I think.

White Sox, on the other hand, need some fielding. Their ace is cheaper and they have a strong second and third starters.

Both of these teams are good for Chicago. The Cubs and Sox have left the city starving for competitive teams with great players. It looks like both sides will deliver at least on paper.

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Meanwhile John Henry's legacy is cemented as the guy who is okay with finishing last every other year. They got lucky in 2013 riding David Ortiz's bat and the emotions of the events that happened at the Marathon and ownership thinks that gives them a free pass to field a garbage team while they rake in the $$$.

I dunno. I'd take a WS victory if I was doomed to be in last place every other year (Cough White Sox cough)

 

[63dot]

Breaking News: Via Ken Rosenthal. Jon Lester to the Cubs.

6 years $155M.

Vesting option for 7th year.

Giants offered $150M for 6. Didn't want to go 7.

Boston offered $135M for 6.

We didn't get him, we didn't get Tanaka, so now it's time to outbid anybody on next attempt at building up our team.

Giants should have gone for it! One year, 5 mil? I think it could have been Lester didn't want to be a #2 pitcher behind Madbum. Any pitcher, save maybe a Kershaw or Hernandez, would instantly be a second fiddle to Madbum (2.98 ERA).

Time to look for Atlanta stars Upton and Johnson to shore up slugging and 3rd base:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...r-san-francisco-giants-justin-upton/20161423/

Us Giants fans want 2015 so badly, and at least a postseason showing (which hasn't happened in an odd year in a long time) to show that this dynasty has all the elements of a dynasty. Like below article says dynasties have 1) a strong team coming at you that you can predict years in advance and 2) dominance. Neither of those two dynasty type attributes have been tagged on San Francisco. If we get a known set of hitters and pitchers who do well in regular season then fans will expect them, unlike 2010, 2012, and 2014 and we need at least a showing in 2015 to show we have follow through in terms of dominance that lasts more than one season. Upton and Johnson would look handsome with Giants jerseys highlighting their names. At the very least oddsmakers would put us near the top where we belong. We get those two and someone like LAD may actually take us seriously for a change rather than another NL West team they can expect to dominate in regular season.

Besides the obvious of not having back to back I want to show up a local guy who always disses us Giants fans by telling us we don't have a "real" dynasty because we have never gone back to back in said dynasty. Dynasties in sports are everywhere, Pats with back to back in there, Cowboys, Yankees, and heck even across the bridge in Oakland where they put up a very rare threepeat. We aren't even the best dynasty in the small Bay Area. None of us can honestly put up an answer to that.

Even dynasties without 3 wins are indisputable dynasties due to the dominance factor. The Big Red Machine only won two WS, but they were back to back and that team had a few other nearby years with good showings. http://reds.enquirer.com/bigred/

The Atlanta Braves only won one WS but they were so dominant that a trip to WS was expected every year which could have probably been expected only by the Yankees. You get that type of dominance with Maddox, Glavine, and Smoltz on the same team at the same time. http://www.kgbanswers.com/wat-was-the-braves-starting-pitcher-rotation-during-their-dynasty/3912779 That would mean having Bumgarner in current form, Lincecum in back to back Cy Young form, and Barry Zito in Oakland A's top Cy Young form all at the same time.

I think this dilemma goes all the up to the front office of the Giants and they will pay far more than anyone expects for Upton and Johnson and be willing to outbid any other competitors. Without Pablo Sandoval, even as inconsistent as he can be, out hitting can't survive alone on Posey, Crawford, Pence, and Belt. We may never get a Puig, but piecing together enough hitters for small ball will be our best bet against a red hot LAD.

 

[maflynn]

I dunno. I'd take a WS victory if I was doomed to be in last place every other year (Cough White Sox cough)

I would too as a Red Sox fan

I do think they screwed up royally by not signing to an extension. I mean they spent a boat load of money on two players already this offseason and tried to get Lester for 135 million. I don't believe you can call them cheap. You can question their business sense in not locking Lester up last year.

 

[MacNut]

I would too as a Red Sox fan

I do think they screwed up royally by not signing to an extension. I mean they spent a boat load of money on two players already this offseason and tried to get Lester for 135 million. I don't believe you can call them cheap. You can question their business sense in not locking Lester up last year.

Had they offered Lester 135 last spring he would still be there. They went 4 for 70 and that pissed him off.

 

[63dot]

I can't believe the papers here really thought Lester was going to come here, or they could offer a home town rate for someone they traded away last year.

I also think spending upwards of 135 to 155 million dollars on a six year contract for a player on the wrong side of 30 is a smart idea.

He's truly a gifted pitcher, but will he be a 155 million dollar pitcher at age 33 or 34? The odds are against him.

----------

Don't get me wrong, its not sour grapes, I long thought it was a mistake to offer an aging pitcher that much money for such a long term contract. I wish him well, he was a great person here in Boston and the team will definitely miss him. They are in serious need of pitching right now.

If the guy is a known entity then it can be worth it even when he's much older.

We gambled on an older Barry Zito who had his best years with the A's but couldn't have done our unlikely but ultimately successful 2012 run without Zito peaking in regular season and putting together first WS win against Detroit.

Between 2012 and 2013 Zito put together the Giants longest win streak from a starting pitcher and Zito pulled this off in the last two years he played in his career. At the time it was finally a cost worth seeing out even though many complained about Zito's age and relying on a 30-something over the hill pitcher.

You guys should have kept the man in the first place and blew your chance with him this time around, just like the Giants who were even closer monetarily against Chicago's offer. We will both be bitten in the butts if 2015 ends up with Chicago winning the World Series and possibly be attributed to their great investment in Lester.

 

[Silencio]

The Giants didn't win because they splashed the cash to bring in free agents. They won because they mostly grew their own nucleus, and rewarded those who performed for them with the big contracts.

As much as I would have liked to have added Lester to the rotation, it doesn't really fit the Giants' modus operandi. With the Dodgers spending freely, they may need to rethink that strategy, and it appears they are. The kind of money that would have been spent on Lester could be better used to strengthen multiple positions.

If Brian Sabean really is looking more to trades than free agent signings, I have to wonder what his thinking is, and what pieces we have that other teams would consider remotely valuable. I don't feel like we have the organizational depth to swing a major trade for a Cole Hamels or Justin Upton without really hurting ourselves, but I guess we'll see.

 

[63dot]

The Giants didn't win because they splashed the cash to bring in free agents. They won because they mostly grew their own nucleus, and rewarded those who performed for them with the big contracts.

As much as I would have liked to have added Lester to the rotation, it doesn't really fit the Giants' modus operandi. With the Dodgers spending freely, they may need to rethink that strategy, and it appears they are. The kind of money that would have been spent on Lester could be better used to strengthen multiple positions.

If Brian Sabean really is looking more to trades than free agent signings, I have to wonder what his thinking is, and what pieces we have that other teams would consider remotely valuable. I don't feel like we have the organizational depth to swing a major trade for a Cole Hamels or Justin Upton without really hurting ourselves, but I guess we'll see.

Our old model worked really well but it's tempting. There's also Scherzer and Shields as possible pitchers and we can probably get them cheaper than what we went for with Lester.

 

[AustinIllini]

The Giants didn't win because they splashed the cash to bring in free agents. They won because they mostly grew their own nucleus, and rewarded those who performed for them with the big contracts.

As much as I would have liked to have added Lester to the rotation, it doesn't really fit the Giants' modus operandi. With the Dodgers spending freely, they may need to rethink that strategy, and it appears they are. The kind of money that would have been spent on Lester could be better used to strengthen multiple positions.

In essence, this is the Cubs model. The problem is, you can develop all the talent you want, but a number 1 starter is expensive. It takes some good fortune and good contract negotiation to get an inexpensive number 1 starter (see Chris Sale).

The Cubs now have an incredible, talent heavy farm system with a hole in pitching. They knew down the line they would have to pay for pitching to fill the holes the farm system couldn't fill.

 

[zioxide]

I would too as a Red Sox fan

I do think they screwed up royally by not signing to an extension. I mean they spent a boat load of money on two players already this offseason and tried to get Lester for 135 million. I don't believe you can call them cheap. You can question their business sense in not locking Lester up last year.

Why not call them cheap? John Henry has more money can he could ever spend, the Sox have the highest ticket prices in baseball, and there's no salary cap. They didn't even offer close to what the Cubs were giving.. they were 20 million short. That's pathetic.

It's terrible business sense as well. Now they're going to trade the entire farm to bring in pitching unless fatso Sandoval is gonna start pitching. The cost controlled talent we're going to lose making a trade or two to make up for losing Lester would have balanced out spending the extra on a contract for him anyways.

Should have offered 5/110 before spring training and this cluster **** never would have happened.

 

[Silencio]

Now they're going to trade the entire farm to bring in pitching unless fatso Sandoval is gonna start pitching.

Thaaaaaat was faaaaast.

 

[maflynn]

If the guy is a known entity then it can be worth it even when he's much older.

Perhaps but the odds are against him. Pujol's deal is what comes to mind. He doesn't appear to be aging gracefully and his numbers are dropping off, yet he has a back heavy contract that will cost the Angel's a ton of money.

We gambled on an older Barry Zito who had his best years with the A's but couldn't have done our unlikely but ultimately successful 2012 run without Zito peaking in regular season and putting together first WS win against Detroit.

I'll not argue that many pitchers are able to pitch well beyond their 30s but people are taking a huge gamble on a pitcher that is on the wrong side of 30 imo.

You guys should have kept the man in the first place and blew your chance with him this time around, just like the Giants who were even closer monetarily against Chicago's offer. We will both be bitten in the butts if 2015 ends up with Chicago winning the World Series and possibly be attributed to their great investment in Lester.

I agree completely, it would have been a lot cheaper and better for the sox to keep him. I didn't get the fire sale that occurred this past season - made no sense to me. The Sox now have a huge hole in their line up and that's pitching. No amount of offensive power will offset that, especially in the post season.

 

[63dot]

I'll not argue that many pitchers are able to pitch well beyond their 30s but people are taking a huge gamble on a pitcher that is on the wrong side of 30 imo.

I think in most sports, except golf, much past age 30 is a huge liability.

Besides the well documented dropoff of a person's physical capabilities, there's also a greater chance of injury and a much longer rehabilitation time. There's a reason Bjorn Borg retired early, or that Steve Young and Troy Aikman didn't go far into their 30s in classic form, or that most MLB players name their 20s as far better than their 30s. Even if a player has some great play in their mid to late 30s like Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady, it just doesn't seem to translate into titles that often in any sport compared to same person in their 20s. Oh yeah, it's cool when Tim Hudson finally gets a ring at age 39 but he was washed up and not the same pitcher as from earlier years but was lucky enough to be on same team as Madison Bumgarner.

I am sure on the Giants our oldish Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, both 30, won't have numbers anywhere near Tim's two Cy Young wins and Matt's near Cy Young season and Matt/Giants only perfect no hitter which were done in their 20s.

Advanced age (in terms of sports, ie 30 and older) is usually a beech from hell. If we didn't have to worry about age the Eagles would still have McNabb, MJ would still be on Wizards, and Barry Bonds would have three World Series rings.

 

[MacNut]

Jimmy Rollins traded to Dodgers.

 

[maflynn]

I am sure on the Giants our oldish Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, both 30, won't have numbers anywhere near Tim's two Cy Young wins and Matt's near Cy Young season and Matt/Giants only perfect no hitter which were done in their 20s.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Lincecum already dealing with a drop off the past couple of years? He's not the same pitcher he was when he won the Cy Young

 

[Silencio]

There's a reason Bjorn Borg retired early, or that Steve Young and Troy Aikman didn't go far into their 30s in classic form, or that most MLB players name their 20s as far better than their 30s.

Steve Young was forced to retire ahead of schedule due to accumulation of concussions. Great job, Lawrence Phillips. Hope you're enjoying prison!

Yes, Lincecum has been struggling for form over the past three seasons. He has thrown two no-hitters over that span, but otherwise he has not been so good. He's apparently working with his father again over the off-season, who is the only person who seems to be able to break down his unorthodox mechanics. 2015 is a contract year, so the motivation is there.

 

[63dot]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Lincecum already dealing with a drop off the past couple of years? He's not the same pitcher he was when he won the Cy Young

Lincecum had enough velocity in Cy Young years to blow past batters but now without his velocity there all the time, he has to rely on a different approach.

The few times he has mixed it up really well have paid off, including those two no-hitters.

For a relief pitcher, Lincecum is amazing and he may never return to the starting rotation in postseason. Just like some former great 9th inning closers become more effective as 8th inning set up men, I think Lincecum can be our franchise bullpen guy. He's one of the few you can call up with very little warm up who can then go in and become unhittable for two or three innings.

 

[SactoGuy18]

In the end, all that money spent on players by the Chicago Cubs may all be for naught.

The reason is simple: it has everything to do with the Cubs playing at Wrigley Field. I cite two problems:

1. The orientation of the baseball field makes its extremely vulnerable to go from a pitchers' park to a hitters' park, especially if the win blows towards the outfield (north to northeast direction). Something has to be done to correct this problem to better help the pitchers.

2. The Cubs still play way too many home games during daytime hours. As such, the Cubs players have a biological clock that is out of sync with other MLB players used to playing most of their regular season games in the evening hours; this results in the Cubs playing well below their potential on road games. This is why after the renovations to Wrigley Field are done, the Cubs should play around 50-55 home games per season in the evening hours so the players are more used to playing evening baseball.

 

[AustinIllini]

White Sox sign Melky Cabrera to a three year deal.