2018 i9 MacBook Pro throttling discussion [merged]

[BJonson]

My Alienware 15 r4 with a 6 core cpu running at 2.2ghz get's a cinebench score of 1175 and the fans barely came on. That is what these chips are capable of.

Just saying.

 

[kotlos]

With MacsFanControl set at 50-80C the computer is cool and happy again.

 

[vaugha]

Here we go: i9 vs base i7. Kind of the same results.

As I have expected the i9 to throttle a lot I went with the mid-range, higher clocked i7. Guess once a fan-curve update is out, the higher clocked i7 will perform just as the i9.

Interesting...

 

[Flabasha]

My Alienware 15 r4 with a 6 core cpu running at 2.2ghz get's a cinebench score of 1175 and the fans barely came on. Just saying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... don't gloat. 😉

 

[Elektrofone]

That’s *exactly* what I’m hoping for soon.

Benchmark File

If anyone else who has the i7 2.6GHz could run this After Effects benchmark it would be greatly useful to me. If you do run it please make sure to turn off "Enable Disk Cache" under "Media and Disk Cache" in the settings and to purge the memory under Edit->Purge in the Menu Bar.

My average after running the benchmark 5 times was 6 Mins, 45 Secs on my i9 with 32GB of RAM. I noticed it throttling down but not quite as bad as the Cinebench test (Probably because it only utilized 70%-80% of my CPU) but it was bouncing around 2.6GHz to 3.7GHz.

It would also be helpful to know how much RAM you have as that will have an impact on an After Effects render. It should be the more RAM you have the faster the render.

 

[Standard]

Can anyone recommend which software I can use on Windows 10 to benchmark my workflow, so I can accurately determine which MBP model will be better suited to my needs? I believe Task Manager can monitor most things, other than CPU throttling?

 

[Mockletoy]

My Alienware 15 r4 with a 6 core cpu running at 2.2ghz get's a cinebench score of 1175 and the fans barely came on. That is what these chips are capable of.

Just saying.

I just ran it on my PowerSpec 1510 w/ 7700HQ & GTX 1070.

718 CPU score. The CPU boosted to 3.4Ghz for the CPU test, max temp 68C, and it boosted to 3.5Ghz for the OpenGL test with temps in the mid to high 50's. That was with the fans under automatic control, which kept them far below max.

There's really no excuse for the level of throttling these Macs are showing. None at all.
[doublepost=1532055860][/doublepost]

Can anyone recommend which software I can use on Windows 10 to benchmark my workflow, so I can accurately determine which MBP model will be better suited to my needs? I believe Task Manager can monitor most things, other than CPU throttling?

Intel Power Gadget works the same on both Macs and Windows machines, and it'll show you the CPU frequency and temperatures in real time.

If you're going to be working in Windows you should read about undervolting. It might sound scary, but it's really not. Intel XTU and Throttlestop are both capable and not that hard to use. There are tutorials all over the place. Intel has to set the voltages for these CPUs based on the worst-case scenario for how much voltage it takes on average to run a given generation of CPU at a given frequency. They tend to err on the high side in the name of stability, meaning that unless you get very unlucky there is almost always a lot of room for improvement since your CPU is being fed a voltage that only the very worst CPU should actually need.

 

[Standard]

I just ran it on my PowerSpec 1510 w/ 7700HQ & GTX 1070.

718 CPU score. The CPU boosted to 3.4Ghz for the CPU test, max temp 68C, and it boosted to 3.5Ghz for the OpenGL test with temps in the mid to high 50's. That was with the fans under automatic control, which kept them far below max.

There's really no excuse for the level of throttling these Macs are showing. None at all.
[doublepost=1532055860][/doublepost]

Intel Power Gadget works the same on both Macs and Windows machines, and it'll show you the CPU frequency and temperatures in real time.

If you're going to be working in Windows you should read about undervolting. It might sound scary, but it's really not. Intel XTU and Throttlestop are both capable and not that hard to use. There are tutorials all over the place. Intel has to set the voltages for these CPUs based on the worst-case scenario for how much voltage it takes on average to run a given generation of CPU at a given frequency. They tend to err on the high side in the name of stability, meaning that unless you get very unlucky there is almost always a lot of room for improvement since your CPU is being fed a voltage that only the very worst CPU should actually need.

Thank you very much! I will definitely get these programs installed and do some thorough testing. I guess it would make sense if I deliberately exaggerate some tasks to see what kind of wiggle room there may be?

 

[EugW]

Ironically, my fanless Kaby Lake Core m3 MacBook throttles only a little bit under sustained load.

After 30 mins of Cinebench, it only lost 7% of its performance.

 

[veljaaa]

Hey guys, I've been lurking in this forum for a while but decided to join just now as I am looking for a new laptop. When I saw the specs of new MacBook models I was very close to ordering the i9 model straight away, now I'm glad I waited to read the reviews first. I am still looking at one of the i7 models and I didn't hear much about the 2.6 GHz i7 model, most benchmarks I've seen are on 2.2 GHz i7 (which seems too slow) and on i9 model (which unfortunately throttles too much). Are there any benchmarks of that model?

I will mostly be using it for programming - Running an Android/iPhone emulator or Node/Java server in the background and occasionaly compiling an app (keep in mind that some apps I work on take over 3 minutes to compile). Seeing how the i9 throttles below 2.9 GHz even in a 1-minute test I don't have high hopes for it.

Is there anybody here who has one of the 2018 15-inch MacBooks and uses it for similar purposes (light background usage with occasional 2-3 minutes under 100% CPU load)? What are your experiences? How long does it take for the laptop to start throttling? How hot does it run in general under low stress?

 

[BJonson]

Hey guys, I've been lurking in this forum for a while but decided to join just now as I am looking for a new laptop. When I saw the specs of new MacBook models I was very close to ordering the i9 model straight away, now I'm glad I waited to read the reviews first. I am still looking at one of the i7 models and I didn't hear much about the 2.6 GHz i7 model, most benchmarks I've seen are on 2.2 GHz i7 (which seems too slow) and on i9 model (which unfortunately throttles too much). Are there any benchmarks of that model?

I will mostly be using it for programming - Running an Android/iPhone emulator or Node/Java server in the background and occasionaly compiling an app (keep in mind that some apps I work on take over 3 minutes to compile). Seeing how the i9 throttles below 2.9 GHz even in a 1-minute test I don't have high hopes for it.

Is there anybody here who has one of the 2018 15-inch MacBooks and uses it for similar purposes (light background usage with occasional 2-3 minutes under 100% CPU load)? What are your experiences? How long does it take for the laptop to start throttling? How hot does it run in general under low stress?

Why would you buy a mac for those tasks, especially this mac? Get a thinkpad man.

 

[EugW]

Hey guys, I've been lurking in this forum for a while but decided to join just now as I am looking for a new laptop. When I saw the specs of new MacBook models I was very close to ordering the i9 model straight away, now I'm glad I waited to read the reviews first. I am still looking at one of the i7 models and I didn't hear much about the 2.6 GHz i7 model, most benchmarks I've seen are on 2.2 GHz i7 (which seems too slow) and on i9 model (which unfortunately throttles too much). Are there any benchmarks of that model?

Uh, what? The 2.2 GHz i7 is blistering fast. It's faster than the top-of-the-line 2017 15" Core i7 MacBook Pro.

 

[veljaaa]

Why would you buy a mac for those tasks, especially this mac? Get a thinkpad man.

I need a powerful laptop for more than just that, but that is what I will be using it for 80% of the time so I want it to run without overheating for at least those tasks.
For more intensive tasks I will be leaving it under the AC anyway.

Uh, what? The 2.2 GHz i5 is blistering fast. It's faster than the top-of-the-line 2017 15" Core i7 MacBook Pro.

You mean 2.2 GHz i7? It is faster than top-of-the-line model only because the i9 throttles so much. Are you saying that it is faster than 2.6 GHz as well? That would make no sense, and mean that Apple really screwed up with these models.

 

[spriter]

Hey guys, I've been lurking in this forum for a while but decided to join just now as I am looking for a new laptop. When I saw the specs of new MacBook models I was very close to ordering the i9 model straight away, now I'm glad I waited to read the reviews first. I am still looking at one of the i7 models and I didn't hear much about the 2.6 GHz i7 model, most benchmarks I've seen are on 2.2 GHz i7 (which seems too slow) and on i9 model (which unfortunately throttles too much). Are there any benchmarks of that model?

I will mostly be using it for programming - Running an Android/iPhone emulator or Node/Java server in the background and occasionaly compiling an app (keep in mind that some apps I work on take over 3 minutes to compile). Seeing how the i9 throttles below 2.9 GHz even in a 1-minute test I don't have high hopes for it.

Is there anybody here who has one of the 2018 15-inch MacBooks and uses it for similar purposes (light background usage with occasional 2-3 minutes under 100% CPU load)? What are your experiences? How long does it take for the laptop to start throttling? How hot does it run in general under low stress?

There’s plenty earlier in the thread about the 2.2 i7.

Essentially it runs fine and maintains the 2.2 as supposed to. If you’re doing general tasks and only occasionally pushing it, it’ll be more than fine. Especially if you’re not invoking the GPU which adds to the temperature and thus compromises how quickly the CPU throttles and performs.

I’m looking at one of these, for FCPX and RAWs in Lightroom and I’m almost certainly going for the i7 2.2 with the 560x and 32gb options. No point paying 50% more for ~7% real world extra performance because of extreme throttling.

 

[spriter]

I need a powerful laptop for more than just that, but that is what I will be using it for 80% of the time so I want it to run without overheating for at least those tasks.
For more intensive tasks I will be leaving it under the AC anyway.


You mean 2.2 GHz i7? It is faster than top-of-the-line model only because the i9 throttles so much. Are you saying that it is faster than 2.6 GHz as well? That would make no sense, and mean that Apple really screwed up with these models.

Max Yuryev just got the i7 2.2 and 2.6 models and he’s going to do tests along with the i9 he has.

Will be interesting and we’ll have some direct comparisons to base decisions off.

 

[veljaaa]

There’s plenty earlier in the thread about the 2.2 i7.

Essentially it runs fine and maintains the 2.2 as supposed to. If you’re doing general tasks and only occasionally pushing it, it’ll be more than fine. Especially if you’re not invoking the GPU which adds to the temperature and thus compromises how quickly the CPU throttles and performs.

I’m looking at one of these, for FCPX and RAWs in Lightroom and I’m almost certainly going for the i7 2.2 with the 560x and 32gb options. No point paying 50% more for ~7% real world extra performance because of extreme throttling.

There's plenty of info about 2.2 GHz i7 and the i9, but nothing about 2.6 GHz i7. And since I will be getting 512 GB and a 560x GPU I might as well get the higher-clocked CPU for $100. That's why I asked about that specific model.

Max Yuryev just got the i7 2.2 and 2.6 models and he’s going to do tests along with the i9 he has.

Will be interesting and we’ll have some direct comparisons to base decisions off.

Great, that's exactly what I want to see.

 

[EugW]

I need a powerful laptop for more than just that, but that is what I will be using it for 80% of the time so I want it to run without overheating for at least those tasks.
For more intensive tasks I will be leaving it under the AC anyway.


You mean 2.2 GHz i7? It is faster than top-of-the-line model only because the i9 throttles so much. Are you saying that it is faster than 2.6 GHz as well? That would make no sense, and mean that Apple really screwed up with these models.

No, I mean the 2018 2.2 GHz i7 is faster than the top of the line 2017 model.

Just because the 2.2 is the entry level 15" this year doesn't make it slow.

 

[Elektrofone]

Max Yuryev just got the i7 2.2 and 2.6 models and he’s going to do tests along with the i9 he has.

Will be interesting and we’ll have some direct comparisons to base decisions off.

Where did you see that info? Can’t seem to find a Twitter for him. I’m very interested in this particular test. Any way to request a test from him? I’d love to see render times.

 

[Feenician]

Hey guys, I've been lurking in this forum for a while but decided to join just now as I am looking for a new laptop. When I saw the specs of new MacBook models I was very close to ordering the i9 model straight away, now I'm glad I waited to read the reviews first. I am still looking at one of the i7 models and I didn't hear much about the 2.6 GHz i7 model, most benchmarks I've seen are on 2.2 GHz i7 (which seems too slow) and on i9 model (which unfortunately throttles too much). Are there any benchmarks of that model?

I will mostly be using it for programming - Running an Android/iPhone emulator or Node/Java server in the background and occasionaly compiling an app (keep in mind that some apps I work on take over 3 minutes to compile). Seeing how the i9 throttles below 2.9 GHz even in a 1-minute test I don't have high hopes for it.

Is there anybody here who has one of the 2018 15-inch MacBooks and uses it for similar purposes (light background usage with occasional 2-3 minutes under 100% CPU load)? What are your experiences? How long does it take for the laptop to start throttling? How hot does it run in general under low stress?

Someone posted in the MBP subforum some Intel Power Gadget stats from the 2.2 i7 at full tilt. It was actually more than able to maintain its base clock, bouncing between 2.2 and 2.3. I don’t have a link but you should be able to find it over there.

Edit: never mind. I see you’ve seen 2.2 info already. I don’t have 2.6 at hand.

 

[veljaaa]

No, I mean the 2018 2.2 GHz i7 is faster than the top of the line 2017 model.

Just because the 2.2 is the entry level 15" this year doesn't make it slow.

In your post you said i5 2.2 GHz model, which doesn't exist.
I know that model is not slow, what I wanted to know is whether 2.6 GHz i7 or i9 are faster for my use-cases and if any of them is even worth it as opposed to a getting a Windows laptop and waiting for 2019 models.

 

[EugW]

In your post you said i5 2.2 GHz model, which doesn't exist.
I know that model is not slow, what I wanted to know is whether 2.6 GHz i7 or i9 are faster for my use-cases and if any of them is even worth it as opposed to a getting a Windows laptop and waiting for 2019 models.

Corrected the i5 to i7.

Even without throttling the 2.6 i7 is only about 5-10% faster than 2.2 i7.

I wouldn’t touch the i9 with a 10 foot pole.

 

[mr.anthonyramos]

Hey guys, I've been lurking in this forum for a while but decided to join just now as I am looking for a new laptop. When I saw the specs of new MacBook models I was very close to ordering the i9 model straight away, now I'm glad I waited to read the reviews first. I am still looking at one of the i7 models and I didn't hear much about the 2.6 GHz i7 model, most benchmarks I've seen are on 2.2 GHz i7 (which seems too slow) and on i9 model (which unfortunately throttles too much). Are there any benchmarks of that model?

I will mostly be using it for programming - Running an Android/iPhone emulator or Node/Java server in the background and occasionaly compiling an app (keep in mind that some apps I work on take over 3 minutes to compile). Seeing how the i9 throttles below 2.9 GHz even in a 1-minute test I don't have high hopes for it.

Is there anybody here who has one of the 2018 15-inch MacBooks and uses it for similar purposes (light background usage with occasional 2-3 minutes under 100% CPU load)? What are your experiences? How long does it take for the laptop to start throttling? How hot does it run in general under low stress?

I second one of the other comments where I think a windows computer might do you better. You get to save a ton and at the same time get all your needed applications to run.

 

[veljaaa]

Corrected the i7.

Even without throttling the 2.6 is only about 5-10% faster than 2.2.

I will be getting 512 GB and a 560x GPU anyway so for $100 I might as well get the higher-clocked CPU unless it throttles just as bad.

 

[Michael Scrip]

My Alienware 15 r4 with a 6 core cpu running at 2.2ghz get's a cinebench score of 1175 and the fans barely came on. That is what these chips are capable of.

Just saying.

Exactly! Dell designed a machine to handle modern processors (and powerful GPUs) with adequate cooling!

Who knew that heatsinks and fans need a decent amount of volume in order to expel heat? 😛

 

[ha1o2surfer]

How is Mac OS not optimized for 6 cores? Did you know other Macs exists with more than 6 cores since like 2013? Those are really uneducated comments. lol Finalcut has no problems on the 18core iMac. 8th gen or not, the software doesn't care.

Did you guys look at D2D's video really closely? I believe Apple could make this a lot better with a software tweak. Apple seems to be letting the CPU have unrestricted access to it's TDP. It was turbo boosting all the way to 80+ watts... All CPUs have a point in which they are efficient and then past a certain point, it requires more and more voltage to get the last few hundred mhz. Take the 8550u for example..

2.9ghz runs at 22w
3.0ghz runs at 26w
3.1ghz runs at 31w

(on my machine here)

If Apple set the power limits to say.. 55 -60 watts They could still get the 4.8ghz number but tell customers only on 1 core or 4.5 on 2 cores , 4.2 on 4 cores and so on..

The definition of throttling is when a CPU can't maintain it's BASE CLOCK. If a CPU can't maintain that, then Apple clearly under designed the heat sink per Intel. If a CPU is throttling, the cooling system is already underperforming, regardless if it's only turbo boosting a little bit.

As stated by Intel:

TDP, Thermal Design Power: a power dissipation target based on worst-case applications. Thermal solutions should be designed to dissipate the thermal design power.

And you guessed right.. the TDP of 45 watts includes some turbo boosting. Every CPU will be different so lets take D2Ds laptop and use his numbers. During his test the CPU was throttling all the way down to 2.19ghz and shows a power consumption of only 29 watts during that frequency dip. It didn't happen for long but this should be investigated by Intel if Apple can't properly cool Intels CPU. Intel doesn't state anything specific about a GPU being on the same heatpipe but it does state clearly a heat pipes designed power dissipation. So having a GPU on the same heatpipe as the CPU technically breaks Intels rule automatically. If the 560x was running at full speed (which it's not lol sucks to be an Apple laptop..) then you bet your 6 core i9 or i7 now has even less room to stretch it's legs LOL.

Now take these facts and see what you think. Still like macs, but will stick to my 2016..