2018 pro. what do you think the REALISTIC spec would be?

[koreankiwitea]

I'm pretty sure these Aren't going to happen:
- DDR4 (apple said no...) and 32GB because of that.
- U chips on 15
- More IO (requires a redesign)
- no touchbar max spec (apple isn't going to takeaway something they so proudly announced)
- return of the magSafe and the good Keyboard (again, apple isn't going to takeaway something they so proudly announced, not wanting to admit wrong)

Now, the Intel's HG chips are interesting stuff. Because while we know that the chips are somewhere between 35W, we don't actually know what the hell the CPU part of the SKU is because i'm not sure if this is a divergence technique by intel if the chips on the thing are indeed the H chips that we're looking for, or just a revamped U chips that we've seen in 2018 so far.

The HG chips are also quad-cores. NOT hexa. Our trusty old Johnny said they're taking the user feedback in that current macbook pros aren't very powerful for a pro machine. However, it is also the case that if Apple genuinely are taking our feedback seriously and wants to make the pro machines like they said they would (the iMac Pro is awesome), the HG chips won't do. This suggests a board redesign, and that will mean that the macs refresh might as well be there.

So here's the thing.

We're not going to see a new face.
LPDDR3 stays, thus 16GB stays.
It might be HG, it might be Hexa. In either case, the announcement will be at the end of Q2, the release will be Q3.

what are your speculations on this year's mac realistically?

 

[kudos212]

the 2016 and 2017 Macbook pro keyboards are fine, are you over 50 years old?

2015 macbook pro's are for some reason in high regard in this forum for no reason, their gpu's are much slower and the screens are much worse. Get with the times.

 

[koreankiwitea]

the 2016 and 2017 Macbook pro keyboards are fine, are you over 50 years old?

2015 macbook pro's are for some reason in high regard in this forum for no reason, their gpu's are much slower and the screens are much worse. Get with the times.

Firstly, i never said anything about 2015.

The keyboard feel is subjectively not fine as you can see the high level of disregard.

 

[DanGoh]

Realistically, I see very few changes coming. CPU upgrade and maybe they'll fix the keyboards. Maybe they'll offer a 15" without the touch bar. Maybe they'll include a sensor to adjust the display temperature like the iPad and new iPhones have.

 

[jerryk]

the 2016 and 2017 Macbook pro keyboards are fine, are you over 50 years old?

2015 macbook pro's are for some reason in high regard in this forum for no reason, their gpu's are much slower and the screens are much worse. Get with the times.

The problem with the 2016 and 2017 keyboards are two fold.
1. They don't have travel and are flat
2. They break or get clogged up easier. And unlike the 2015 and earlier systems, is is not easy for the user to remove the keys and clean out any dirt or particles. So you have to take it into Apple, losing your machine for some time. Also, if the local Apple store cannot fix it, the top cover assembly must replaced, or the unit swapped. This costing the user time, and since time really is money to many, money.

 

[sublunar]

Apple will announce and ship immediately with laptops as an ongoing line - they aren't iMac Pros. The 2017 model ones came out in June (around WWDC time) while the 2016 models were introduced in October of 2016.

Depending on the overall availability of the CPUs that Apple want to use we're looking at potentially any time between now and October this year. Apple could even produce two lots of updates this year if they copy the 2013 release range.

The evidence from Intel doesn't support that at the moment though. There are no 15w or 28w Iris enabled CPUs announced (only the interesting quad core i5-8250U and i7-8550U and neither of them are Iris Graphics parts). They announced the i5-8305G which looks destined to replace the CPU/dGPU combination in the 15" models.

With any luck Apple's tuning could mean improved battery life on the 15" models.

The Coffee Lake CPUs for desktop have already been launched and are generally on sale for system builders now and could slot into the iMac range for 2018 with immediate effect. Updates for iMacs should be a simple slot-in when those CPUs become generally available and the only thinking over scheduling to be done here is launch proximity to the iMac Pro and the forthcoming Modular Mac Pro.

A basic update for Apple would be to wait for the Kaby Lake Refresh Iris Graphics enabled CPUs to come out for the 13" models, with the 15" model upgrade path looking increasingly obvious with the announced i5 and i7 CPUs.

A June release would make it a year since the last updates. Probably worth doing if there's only going to be incremental bumps in spec.

Additional cores with Iris Graphics look to be late to the party if at all for Intel going on past releases. And in a 13" form factor I'd say Apple will prefer 2 fast cores over 4 slow ones for day to day work. Not everyone is trying to export FCPX footage on their non-touchbar Mac.

With respect to the keyboard issues, I've discussed those elsewhere but it's down to be a design flaw (affecting all models in some circumstances) or possibly a manufacturing flaw (affecting some users). These top cover replacements on demand are probably an acceptable solution and interesting to note when users report their 2016 model top cover and parts have been replaced by 2017 parts.

Apple could simply also have added some work-arounds that can be applied to certain models as dealer-fit fixes - the much discussed shims which prop up keys being an example.

 

[ZapNZs]

I expect the 2018s to be like this...

 

[Falhófnir]

the 2016 and 2017 Macbook pro keyboards are fine

There is a significant body of evidence that they are prone to failing, and (subjectively, granted) I find them uncomfortable for extended typing sessions, even when not 'hammering away'. Care to provide the counter evidence conclusively dismissing any reliability issue?

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Our trusty old Johnny said they're taking the user feedback in that current macbook pros aren't very powerful for a pro machine. However, it is also the case that if Apple genuinely are taking our feedback seriously and wants to make the pro machines like they said they would (the iMac Pro is awesome), the HG chips won't do. This suggests a board redesign, and that will mean that the macs refresh might as well be there.

When did this happen? You seem to be expecting something to happen because Apple have said they're going to do something about something. As far as I know, this comment is completely made up. So I wouldn't expect much...

Specifically, what is it about using the fastest available CPUs and generally best in class components for a portable notebook makes them unusable for you? Do you want desktop quality components in a package of notebook size that still maintains some form of battery life and portability?

Do you want to go back to using a proprietary charger that cost a fortune to replace? Would the omission of the TouchBar seriously make you purchase one, like $50 cheaper and you're in? It has more IO than any previous MBP, it's got 4 USB ports, 4 HDMI ports, 4 everything you want, do you want even more?

I only ask as there's a lot of threads of people complaining about stuff being underpowered, or needing more power, but not actually seen any one of these threads post a reason why other than they read something on the internet about more power coming soon and now they want it.

Realistically you'll see about a 20% increase in performance. Whether that includes a 4 core chip, an 8 core chip, heck even a 20 core chip makes next to no difference, it'll be about 20% increase.

 

[Falhófnir]

Do you want to go back to using a proprietary charger that cost a fortune to replace? Would the omission of the TouchBar seriously make you purchase one, like $50 cheaper and you're in? It has more IO than any previous MBP, it's got 4 USB ports, 4 HDMI ports, 4 everything you want, do you want even more?

But not all at once. I'd argue you could have:

• Power
• A USB mouse
• A USB thumb drive
• A HDMI display
• A second thunderbolt display (or other TB accessory)
• A second thunderbolt accessory

for example on a 2015 machine, whereas natively on the tb models you're limited to:

• Power
• An external display
• A second external display or TB/ USB C accessory
• one port left for your choice of Mouse, thumb drive, or other accessory.

of course, you can get around this, just not without an extra cost dock/ hub. Different people will value different things, I don't think you can therefore assert that one setup is automatically better for everyone.

 

[koreankiwitea]

Specifically, what is it about using the fastest available CPUs and generally best in class components for a portable notebook makes them unusable for you? Do you want desktop quality components in a package of notebook size that still maintains some form of battery life and portability?

Do you want to go back to using a proprietary charger that cost a fortune to replace? Would the omission of the TouchBar seriously make you purchase one, like $50 cheaper and you're in? It has more IO than any previous MBP, it's got 4 USB ports, 4 HDMI ports, 4 everything you want, do you want even more?

Im not sure if youre being serious when you say best in class. Sure components like the display, the actual work they put in to flow the hardware communications, wifi chips and other things that are 'hidden' on the spec sheet are best in class. I think thats really respectable and under appreciated when other manufacturers clearly skimp and cheap out on components that dont necessarily make their spec sheet look good.

That said, macbook pros objectively dont have the best in class specs. Not even in the form factor. The days of macs having the best specs have passed long ago.

Your port argument is true, but unfair. Its a laptop and if that means anything (especially with the direction apple is taking) it means portability. But then also, im not complaining about ports here. I think if a giant company like apple take initiative as inconvinient as this it helps move the industry to the clearly better standard.

I dont understand why some are taking this thread as complaining for the lack of specs. Where does it say i hate the current mac? Im wondering what the next spec would be, not whining.

 

[maflynn]

As long as Apple improves the keyboard, I don't care what else they do.

I expect a minor update, I'm kind of doubtful that we'll see hexa cores, but we should see the option of getting more then 16GB of ram for those folks who need it.

 

[sublunar]

As long as Apple improves the keyboard, I don't care what else they do.

I expect a minor update, I'm kind of doubtful that we'll see hexa cores, but we should see the option of getting more then 16GB of ram for those folks who need it.

I think 32Gb won't happen on this current generation (Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake) for power consumption concerns - it's completely feasible with DDR4 but not LPDDR4 right now which is what Apple want which is why LPDDR3 is the only choice.

I'd say the (currently unannounced) Coffee Lake mobile Hex cores probably won't be around on this generation because the Kaby Lake G quad core/8 thread part with Radeon Vega graphics that was doing the rounds will probably be the headline item for the 15" MacBook Pros this year - unless Apple are intending to have it (and a full Vega dGPU) as a CTO SKU.

I'd say that for marketing reasons the hex cores are better off being the headline in the following generation unless Intel are launching by June, for example, and we could then see an October refresh.

CPUs suitable for 13" MacBook Pro (with Iris Graphics) aren't even announced at the moment but we know that the CPUs for the 15" models have been announced and rivals like HP and Dell are already announcing products which can be benchmarked, let's say one of two scenarios for the 15" model:

1. Apple launch 2018 MacBook Pro 15" and it includes the Kaby Lake G Radeon Vega graphics in June, a year after the 2017 model, there's no chance we'll get an October refresh so quickly and therefore we could see (by June of the following year) a new model with the hex core CPU and a later AMD Vega discrete GPU.

2. Apple launch 2018 MacBook Pro 15" and it includes the Kaby Lake G Radeon Vega graphics this month or in March. Its feasible if the CPUs start shipping quickly and Apple have no other updates to perform other than perhaps minor iterative engineering changes for the keyboard. There's then a chance that Apple could release an October update (like they did with the 2013 models) containing the hex core CPUs with discrete AMD GPU if Intel publicly launch them in time.

Apple will already know Intel's roadmap plans for CPU launches so they can plan their own road map.

On top of this is Apple's plan for a following generation. We're into the realms of bigger screens (14" and 16" as mentioned before), terraced batteries (like in the Air) plus a chance to fix that keyboard - perhaps even replace with a more controversial eInk keyboard!

 

[jerryk]

As long as Apple improves the keyboard, I don't care what else they do.

I expect a minor update, I'm kind of doubtful that we'll see hexa cores, but we should see the option of getting more then 16GB of ram for those folks who need it.

Intel has shown a 45W mobile hex core processor on their road map slides. So if the 15" MacBook pro did not use that chip, what chip would it use?

And, the top end Intel i7 desktop chips are hex core now, so it is something they know how to make.

 

[kudos212]

.

 

[Falhófnir]

what body of evidence that the butterfly keyboard is prone to failing? You didn't state anything and just asked me to provide evidence. makes no sense.

Let's see, there's this:
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT205662
straight from the horse's mouth, any number of threads on this site detailing various members' experiences, youtube videos, take your pick.

 

[sublunar]

Intel has shown a 45W mobile hex core processor on their road map slides. So if the 15" MacBook pro did not use that chip, what chip would it use?

And, the top end Intel i7 desktop chips are hex core now, so it is something they know how to make.

Nothing's been officially announced yet for mobile though so we don't know the timescale that Intel is operating on. The hex core desktop CPUs are officially Coffee Lake but we may be seeing a Kaby Lake Refresh series shoehorned in for the mobile CPUs.

The i5-8305G (mobile Intel+Radeon Vega) is a Kaby Lake Refresh part and the part I think most obviously destined for this year's 15" MacBook Pro. The i5-8400 (desktop) is Coffee Lake and looks a dead cert for the iMac (even though it - and faster versions - may worry iMac Pro buyers). There isn't anything else currently announced by Intel but it does make logical sense that there will be a 6 core/12 thread mobile CPU available at some point for Apple as made by Intel. The question is when. And are Apple waiting for it for this year or planning to have it in the 2019 big MacBook Pro?

To confuse matters slightly the i5-8250U (4 core/8 thread 15w mobile CPU but only with UHD630 graphics) is Kaby Lake R. In my opinion this doesn't fit with Apple's previous track record of fitting dual core CPUs with Iris Graphics into their 13" laptops.

I've no doubt there's been leaks of slides from various Intel meetings - I've seen a few - and they seem to suggest that Iris Graphics equipped CPUs suitable for 13" MacBook Pros will be coming later in the cycle and seem like Kaby Lake Refresh generation.