2019 Formula 1 Season Thread

[Akrapovic]

Having seen all the fun other sports have when they have a controversial moments, I think this will pull viewers in rather than exclude them. F1 is often too processed, too prim; yesterday was a bit off the rails and the story was better for it.

I actually had the opposite feeling. My co-worker, who had read about it but not seen it, asked me about it. She's extremely sports orientated - ex-Olympic sailor, now a downhill mountain biker. I showed her the YouTube clip of it and her response was "...that's it? That's what all the fuss is over? These boys need to man up".

The image of F1, where brave drivers valiantly battle with monstrous machines was completely destroyed by "He got in our way!" "No, I didn't!" "Wahhhh, I don't know why everyone is upset". The sport looked very silly by the end.

 

[BenTrovato]

My take on the penalty from watching it live: It completely ruined the race and the experience for the fans. Yes it was barely a penalty under the current rules and Hamilton sold it big time by going to the right and getting on the radio using the proper language but all the drivers would have done the same thing.

In the interest of the fans they should have had Vettel concede the place to Hamilton and had them go at it for the last few laps. The 5 second time penalty only made it a painful procession toward the end.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Is anybody quite pleased we’ve had something controversial to talk about though? Remember the days of Vettel and Hamilton in the pit lane in China, Spa ‘08, the Red Bull favouritism etc etc. At least it’s spiced up what has become quite a dull sport in recent years even if the stewards got it wrong perhaps.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Is anybody quite pleased we’ve had something controversial to talk about though? Remember the days of Vettel and Hamilton in the pit lane in China, Spa ‘08, the Red Bull favouritism etc etc. At least it’s spiced up what has become quite a dull sport in recent years even if the stewards got it wrong perhaps.

Controversy? It’s not like when Schumacher went looking for David Caultard! Now that was funny!
Or Senna and Prost. That was fun to!

 

[apolloa]

Have you listened to the drivers' radio feed?

Drivers whinge all the time about what the guy in front of them, or behind them, or next to them do. It's a constant feature of the team radio channel. I, personally, find it hard to believe they can carry on a conversation at all, driving the speeds that they do..

The only cheating that went on was Vettel rejoining the track in an unsafe manner. F1 puts in chicanes, and has marked track boundaries for a reason: namely to force the drivers to moderate their speed and control at various points on the circuit. They do this to improve safety and to make the track itself more challenging. The rules very clearly state that there are penalties for violating track limits, and for re-entering the circuit in an unsafe manner.

To claim that the Stewards penalised Vettel because of F1 political pressure is absurd: F1 and the FIA aren't happy with a result where the leading driver has his win taken away. Its bad optics for the sport, and angers many fans. But if F1 is to maintain its position as a credible sporting organisation - as compared to professional wrestling - then it needs to have clear rules that are consistently enforced. Failing to penalise Vettel for a very clear violation of the rules, just to mollify the emotions of the Tifosi and many of the other fans, would have been an abrogation of that responsibility.

You have no idea what you are talking about, I listened to the team on Sky F1 actually FOUR of which are ex F1 drivers, and not people with opinions on the internet, and they ALL disagreed with the penalty and stated clearly how Vetell had no control, would you have been happy to see him plant it into the wall at 100mph? The Stewards would of been seemingly..

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Controversy? It’s not like when Schumacher went looking for David Caultard! Now that was funny!
Or Senna and Prost. That was fun to!

I suppose I’m happy something happened which is a rather sad indictment for how dull F1 has become for me.

 

[apolloa]

Is anybody quite pleased we’ve had something controversial to talk about though? Remember the days of Vettel and Hamilton in the pit lane in China, Spa ‘08, the Red Bull favouritism etc etc. At least it’s spiced up what has become quite a dull sport in recent years even if the stewards got it wrong perhaps.

No not really, I’d rather their was more racing and less cheating... Ferrari being the ones doing the racing.

Controversy? It’s not like when Schumacher went looking for David Caultard! Now that was funny!
Or Senna and Prost. That was fun to!

But Senna and Prost actually raced, they actually took chances to overtake and made the sport, not like the pansies we have now! Senna was the best ever for me.

Sadly today’s drivers and culture have meant the sport isn’t a patch of those older days, it’s become quite sad and pathetic actually where politics and dirty tricks rule, and your banned from being allowed to sort it out on track... I can even remember Hill and Mansell days were far better, even some of the Schumacher ones!

 

[Apple fanboy]

No not really, I’d rather their was more racing and less cheating... Ferrari being the ones doing the racing.



But Senna and Prost actually raced, they actually took chances to overtake and made the sport, not like the pansies we have now! Senna was the best ever for me.

Or just drove into each other to win the title!

But yes I also rate Senna right up there. Hard to call the best ever. I think those that risked death in the early years when the driver made all the difference were right up there.

 

[apolloa]

Having seen all the fun other sports have when they have a controversial moments, I think this will pull viewers in rather than exclude them. F1 is often too processed, too prim; yesterday was a bit off the rails and the story was better for it.

They are their to race, it’s pointless if they are not allowed to race and the usual winner is handed the win by the stewards.. that just turns more people off the sport. It’s pointless watching a sport where you have 3 teams at the top, everyone else behind, and you know who will always win.. why would anybody watch a sport like that and pay a lot of money too as well? You need to remember here in the UK F1 is only on premium paid for viewing, why would people pay for it?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

No not really, I’d rather their was more racing and less cheating... Ferrari being the ones doing the racing.

I haven’t seen any cheating going on but maybe you can explain that? I saw a poor stewards decision and one that both teams acknowledged.

But Senna and Prost actually raced, they actually took chances to overtake and made the sport, not like the pansies we have now! Senna was the best ever for me.

Senna was a whiner in his era too and played the politics game. Yeah he was a great driver but surely if you watched that era you remember both Senna and Prost loves to get FISA (FIA) involved to change decisions much more than today.

 

[vrDrew]

You have no idea what you are talking about, I listened to the team on Sky F1 actually FOUR of which are ex F1 drivers

The assertion was the Hamilton "cheated" by complaining about Vettel's move over team radio. Which is absurd. Because every F1 driver out there complains, regularly, over team radio about other drivers. There was nothing unusual or unsporting about Hamilton mentioning to his team about what transpired on track. Nor was there anything untoward about Mercedes referring the incident to Race Control, who then informed the Stewards.

Yeah: It's easy for retired drivers to prattle on ad nauseum about how they'd prefer "real racing". But the reality is that rules, politics, and - yes - controversy has always been part of Formula One. Just as there is in football, yacht racing, cycling, and every other sporting endeavour known to man. I personally find it ridiculous that Ferrari gets a multi-million Euro annual subsidy simply because they are Ferrari. I'm sure that Robert Kubica and Kevin Magnussen and the folks at Williams and Haas would love the "real racing" that could take place if every team had an equal budget. But there we go.

I'd argue that the truly "sporting" thing to do would have been for Vettel to concede the place to Hamilton, and then pass him to unquestionably take the victory. But apparently "sporting" behaviour is only demanded of drivers not driving cars with prancing horses on the nose.

Did the Stewards decision "spoil" the result? Arguably so. But that's the way things sometimes pan out. Judges (in this case the Stewards) have to make difficult decisions.

And in this case, there is no changing them. So every one from Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel, all the way down to the myriad of armchair experts out there, will have to live with the results.

 

[Akrapovic]

Yeah: It's easy for retired drivers to prattle on ad nauseum about how they'd prefer "real racing".

I'm not saying you're wrong (and your point stands up with Brundle and Karun), but be careful with the old F1 stance of "retired" drivers. Button isn't retired - he drives in SuperGT, WEC LMP1 and has a GT3 team he drives with. He's pretty active, and has a lot wider range of experience than the blinkered F1 view of things. Given Jensons extremely wide range of experience in F1 and other series recently, I feel he's worth listening to.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but just throwing added bit in.

Whilst we're on the topic of stupid controversy and F1, who has been keeping up with the Rich Energy nonsense? Haas sponsors. Turns out they don't have a product (but claim to!), and they stole the logo from Whytes Bikes. They got sued by Whytes Bikes, who won the first round in court, which is why the Rich Energy logo was removed from the Haas for Montreal.

Rich Energy responded in the way you'd expect a sham company to respond...by posting abuse on Twitter. Rich Energy's argument is that nobody has heard of Whytes Bikes and they're a nobody. So for added fun, here's a photo of Romain Grosjean on a Whytes Bike in 2014.

It's fascinating to watch in a "Jerry! Jerry!" sort of way. What a mess.

 

[vrDrew]

Whilst we're on the topic of stupid controversy and F1, who has been keeping up with the Rich Energy nonsense? Haas sponsors..

Yeah. Rich Energy.

I've got very mixed feelings about Haas in general. On the one hand, it's fantastic to see a legitimate US team make a real presence in F1. And Gene Haas personal story is amazing, although not without controversy of its own. Having built a multibillion-dollar company making state-of-the-art CNC machinery - he also got a two year sentence for criminal tax evasion. The facts of which seem incredible to me, that such a smart and successful person could engage in such a stupid scheme to save himself literally a few million in taxes.

When the big story of F1 is finally written, I suspect that Rich Energy will be another black mark. They simply aren't a legitimate company. Where their funding comes from is a complete mystery. It literally wouldn't surprise me if the whole thing turned out to be a massive money-laundering scheme, or a billion-dollar hoax. There are plenty of bona fide energy drinks makers who really would want a presence in F1. But a company no-one has ever heard of and doesn't actually make a product actual humans can buy. Yeah: That's not going to end well.

As a manufacture of the sort of high-tech manufacturing equipment top-level motorsports rely on - then Haas Automation has the resources and rationale for spending a few hundred million to sponsor an F1 team. What Gene Haas is doing playing around with a fake drinks maker is beyond me.

 

[Akrapovic]

It is absolutely a money laundering scheme, I agree 100%. Remember that Rich Energy approached Williams first, and Williams, despite struggling, turned them down. They know exactly what is going on there. Which means that the Haas due diligence process is far easier to get through than the Williams one.

 

[apolloa]

I haven’t seen any cheating going on but maybe you can explain that? I saw a poor stewards decision and one that both teams acknowledged.

Senna was a whiner in his era too and played the politics game. Yeah he was a great driver but surely if you watched that era you remember both Senna and Prost loves to get FISA (FIA) involved to change decisions much more than today.

Sorry but Hamilton getting on the radio and moaning is in my eyes the equivalent of a soccer star ‘tripping’ over a blade of grass and trying to claim a foul.
And Mercedes play a lot of dirty plot prices that I get told of in confidence so won’t repeat here..
and Senna was a real driver, sorry but anything you ‘claim’ won’t change that. And no I don’t remember.
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The assertion was the Hamilton "cheated" by complaining about Vettel's move over team radio. Which is absurd. Because every F1 driver out there complains, regularly, over team radio about other drivers. There was nothing unusual or unsporting about Hamilton mentioning to his team about what transpired on track. Nor was there anything untoward about Mercedes referring the incident to Race Control, who then informed the Stewards.

Yeah: It's easy for retired drivers to prattle on ad nauseum about how they'd prefer "real racing". But the reality is that rules, politics, and - yes - controversy has always been part of Formula One. Just as there is in football, yacht racing, cycling, and every other sporting endeavour known to man. I personally find it ridiculous that Ferrari gets a multi-million Euro annual subsidy simply because they are Ferrari. I'm sure that Robert Kubica and Kevin Magnussen and the folks at Williams and Haas would love the "real racing" that could take place if every team had an equal budget. But there we go.

I'd argue that the truly "sporting" thing to do would have been for Vettel to concede the place to Hamilton, and then pass him to unquestionably take the victory. But apparently "sporting" behaviour is only demanded of drivers not driving cars with prancing horses on the nose.

Did the Stewards decision "spoil" the result? Arguably so. But that's the way things sometimes pan out. Judges (in this case the Stewards) have to make difficult decisions.

And in this case, there is no changing them. So every one from Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel, all the way down to the myriad of armchair experts out there, will have to live with the results.

Sorry but your initial post claimed Vettel cheated... that just reaks of a fan going off on one in here.... you seem to have a hatred of Ferrari in fact, claiming they aren’t ‘sporting drivers’..

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Sorry but Hamilton getting on the radio and moaning is in my eyes the equivalent of a soccer star ‘tripping’ over a blade of grass and trying to claim a foul.
And Mercedes play a lot of dirty plot prices that I get told of in confidence so won’t repeat here..
and Senna was a real driver, sorry but anything you ‘claim’ won’t change that. And no I don’t remember.

Vettel is perhaps the worst for radio complaining but all drivers will do it for an advantage. Hamilton does it like the rest.

No point mentioning things you can’t repeat. I have old school friends who work in F1 and if they are true to their NDA’s then they won’t tell you anything. I never get anything when I ask as I expect. Senna was a proper drama queen and yes he was the best of his generation but he played the politics game the best. Today’s drivers are nothing compared to that. He was still my favourite back then.

 

[Akrapovic]

Both Vettel and Hamilton pale into insignificance when it comes to Romain Grosjeans radio calls. That man is something else. He asked the stewards to investigate Perez for his pass into T1. It was the least controversial move I've ever seen lol.

 

[Akrapovic]

Although there is no F1 this weekend, there is the Le Mans 24 Hours. It won't be a classic (unless something very odd happens), but the battle for LMP1 final podium spot, the LMP2 battle and GTE-Pro will be interesting!

Practice starts in 40 minutes.

Edit: Live onboard Rebellion #1

https://www.youtube.com/user/motul/live

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I'm not saying you're wrong (and your point stands up with Brundle and Karun), but be careful with the old F1 stance of "retired" drivers. Button isn't retired - he drives in SuperGT, WEC LMP1 and has a GT3 team he drives with. He's pretty active, and has a lot wider range of experience than the blinkered F1 view of things. Given Jensons extremely wide range of experience in F1 and other series recently, I feel he's worth listening to.

Not saying I agree or disagree, but just throwing added bit in.

Whilst we're on the topic of stupid controversy and F1, who has been keeping up with the Rich Energy nonsense? Haas sponsors. Turns out they don't have a product (but claim to!), and they stole the logo from Whytes Bikes. They got sued by Whytes Bikes, who won the first round in court, which is why the Rich Energy logo was removed from the Haas for Montreal.

Rich Energy responded in the way you'd expect a sham company to respond...by posting abuse on Twitter. Rich Energy's argument is that nobody has heard of Whytes Bikes and they're a nobody. So for added fun, here's a photo of Romain Grosjean on a Whytes Bike in 2014.

It's fascinating to watch in a "Jerry! Jerry!" sort of way. What a mess.

Rich Energy seem to be some form of money laundering exercise that packages cheap supermarket grade energy drink in tins that contain stolen branding lol. I read that twitter exchange the other day and I would think Haas are seriously considering the relationship going forward. They are a bunch of amateur upstarts with a bit of spare cash who seem to have blagged a sponsorship deal, mad. Whytes bikes have had some great PR out of this though and are hopefully selling more of their rather excellent MTB’s.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Rich Energy seem to be some form of money laundering exercise that packages cheap supermarket grade energy drink in tins that contain stolen branding lol. I read that twitter exchange the other day and I would think Haas are seriously considering the relationship going forward. They are a bunch of amateur upstarts with a bit of spare cash who seem to have blagged a sponsorship deal, mad. Whytes bikes have had some great PR out of this though and are hopefully selling more of their rather excellent MTB’s.

I’ve been watching F1 for decades, but never tasted Red Bull! Does that mean the advertising millions don’t work?

 

[Akrapovic]

I’ve been watching F1 for decades, but never tasted Red Bull! Does that mean the advertising millions don’t work?

No, it means that if you ever decide to try an energy drink, Red Bull is the first one in your head.

Nobody started smoking because it was on a McLaren. But when they started smoking, they recognised the Marlboro brand.

 

[nebo1ss]

You have no idea what you are talking about, I listened to the team on Sky F1 actually FOUR of which are ex F1 drivers, and not people with opinions on the internet, and they ALL disagreed with the penalty and stated clearly how Vetell had no control, would you have been happy to see him plant it into the wall at 100mph? The Stewards would of been seemingly..

You break the rules you suffer the consequences. The rule clearly states that if you re-enter the track in an unsafe manner you get a penalty. In fact 5 Sec was the smallest option available as per the rule. It could have been 10 sec or even a pit drive through. Fact is the drivers were the ones who demanded black and white rules. Vettel is always complaining and behaving like a baby. I did not see Max doing so when he got the five sec penalty for the pit incident recently.

 

[CWallace]

For some of us, Vettel's re-entry was not deliberately unsafe, but a consequence of the corner geometry and surface that did not allow him to maintain control. It also did not allow him to come to a complete stop, either. I guess he could have turned hard left and try to put it into the guard rail to "keep it safe"...

So in my opinion, he was not at fault. And for the record, neither was Lewis - he's a racer, he saw an opening, and he went for it.

The FIA used to have a term for these kinds of events - "racing incidents". But I guess that was removed from the rulebook.

 

[Apple fanboy]

No, it means that if you ever decide to try an energy drink, Red Bull is the first one in your head.

Nobody started smoking because it was on a McLaren. But when they started smoking, they recognised the Marlboro brand.

I was a Benson and Hedges man!

I think there’s an equal chance I start smoking again as there is I ever have an energy drink.
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For some of us, Vettel's re-entry was not deliberately unsafe, but a consequence of the corner geometry and surface that did not allow him to maintain control. It also did not allow him to come to a complete stop, either. I guess he could have turned hard left and try to put it into the guard rail to "keep it safe"...

So in my opinion, he was not at fault. And for the record, neither was Lewis - he's a racer, he saw an opening, and he went for it.

The FIA used to have a term for these kinds of events - "racing incidents". But I guess that was removed from the rulebook.

That’s exactly what it was. Neither cheated. Neither was in the wrong. Just racing. I’d like to see more of it!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’ve been watching F1 for decades, but never tasted Red Bull! Does that mean the advertising millions don’t work?

One person not buying a product doesn’t mean millions of people don’t. Red Bull were the first major energy drink supplier so we remember the name whether we buy it or not, due to the exposure. Gerhard Berger used to walk around the paddock in 1989 carrying his Red Bull drinks bottle and the brand has grown in popularity. Rich Energy seems to be a cheap Amazon offered drink which may grow due to being associated with Haas but seeing as the owner likes stealing branding and insulting companies he’s ripped off on Twitter, I hope their shelf life is short.