2019 Formula 1 Season Thread

[The-Real-Deal82]

I do find the idea of Vettel being emotional and difficult to handle amusing. We almost had Lewis in tears on the podium, and he's even pulled the race card when penalised. If you think Vettel is emotional you'd have a heart attack if you'd seen Villenueve, Senna, Mansell, Schumacher and Alonso at their prime.

Vettel will be let go for the same reason Alonso was let go. He's moving on because relationships in Ferrari sour remarkably quickly when goals aren't achieved. Ferrari traditionally hold drivers responsible for results not coming, and anyone criticising the car is let go. Even Mansell and Prost weren't above that.

Oh don’t worry I’ve seen all those in their prime. I’m old enough to have watched Senna do his stuff at the British GP! Not really bothered about Vettels behaviour and suggesting I’ve never seen anything like it as I have. Just commenting as an ex avid F1 fan.

 

[vrDrew]

The (Sky UK) commentators got it all wrong: Sure: Vettel didn't have control when he re-entered the track. But Vettel screwed up by entering the corner too fast and losing control in the first place.

yeah: The Stewards had a tough call to make to (essentially) take away Vettel's lead. But if Vettel hadn't cut Hamilton off via his unsafe re-enter, then I think there was a very good chance Hamilton would have passed him within the next lap or two.

Knowing Vettel had a 5-second penalty, I'm not surprised Hamilton didn't push to pass him in the closing ten laps. A younger, more foolish Lewis Hamilton might have tried. But the ice-cool technician played it out the way it had to be.

Shame on Vettel, Ferrari, the race fans, and the commentators for not seeing that was the way things had to be.

Note: Vettel screwed up when he was ahead of Hamilton by about 0.5 seconds. Does Vettel think that he should be able to make mistakes with impunity? If Hamilton had screwed up and slid off the track, losing a couple of seconds in his chase - would Vettel have slowed down to let him catch up?

 

[Akrapovic]

If all mistakes or actions that cause drivers to be disadvantaged must be punished then we’re about to set a record for 5 second penalties. But if everyone has one then it equals out I guess?

I want to see racing. Penalising mistakes is where madness lies. The 3 F1 drivers commentating seemed to agree.

 

[CWallace]

The (Sky UK) commentators got it all wrong: Sure: Vettel didn't have control when he re-entered the track. But Vettel screwed up by entering the corner too fast and losing control in the first place.

The Sky analysts were of the opinion the dirty air coming off the two cars ahead of him unbalanced the aerodynamics and caused the back-end to break loose. I am in agreement with their assessment considering Vettel had made that corner plenty of times before while both under pressure from Lewis and when trying to set fast laps before and after the pit stop.

The Stewards had a tough call to make to (essentially) take away Vettel's lead. But if Vettel hadn't cut Hamilton off via his unsafe re-enter, then I think there was a very good chance Hamilton would have passed him within the next lap or two.

Lewis was looking ragged himself once he really started pushing to close. He might very well have gotten past, but he might not have been able to hold it.

And I am (again) in agreement with the Sky analysts that Vettel did not deliberately cut Lewis off, but was instead trying to get control of an unstable car coming off the grass and curbs. And I don't fault Lewis for trying to pass him and therefore putting himself in a position to be "cut off" and having to slam on the brakes. He saw an opening and he went for it.

Hence why I believe it was a racing incident and the penalty was unwarranted.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Well what a dire way to decide a result. Had to wait for the highlights and it wasn’t a great race.
But deciding the winner for that incident seems harsh. What you can say is that both drivers did exceptionally well not to collide. That would have been worse, unless you are a LeClerk fan!

Of course that’s the second race this season when Ferrari have managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
So yes Mercedes have won the first 7, but it should really have only been 5.

But as others have said I’m sure weekends like this will help Vettel decide to retire.

And I like the number swapping! Shows he has a sense of humour.

 

[Glideslope]

Ferrari is officially appealing. This is going to be very interesting to watch. I think they have a shot at winning. A big test for maFIA.

 

[CWallace]

Except race time penalties are unappealable, so I expect the FIA to dismiss it.

 

[Akrapovic]

Except race time penalties are unappealable, so I expect the FIA to dismiss it.

I think Ferrari may be making a point. Time penalties are unappealable however the statement released by he FIA states that competitors have the right to appeal. Despite the regulations saying they can’t.

Another example of a giant mess of regulations.

 

[MOFS]

I do wonder whether the penalty is justified in terms of track limits. As Lewis said, SV didn’t even lift, and cut the corner (albeit unintentionally). It’s a very tight call and I can understand why Seb was upset.

Perhaps the more interesting thing is that only the top 5 were on the same lap. All the rest of the field was over a lap behind, which indicates the pace advantage of the Mercedes and Ferrari.

 

[Akrapovic]

I do wonder whether the penalty is justified in terms of track limits. As Lewis said, SV didn’t even lift, and cut the corner (albeit unintentionally). It’s a very tight call and I can understand why Seb was upset.

Perhaps the more interesting thing is that only the top 5 were on the same lap. All the rest of the field was over a lap behind, which indicates the pace advantage of the Mercedes and Ferrari.

I don't understand how they can say Vettel didn't lift. He wasn't on the throttle when the car left the road (which we know, because he was slowing down - and you don't trail brake with energy regen). How do you lift more? He'll have used a little bit of throttle and brake together to keep the car stable through the grass (rally driver trick that one), but that's it.

I don't blame Lewis at all in this, but frankly, the statements he's been making are nothing but damage control. He called for a stewards investigation (which is fine - and standard), but then said he didn't have anything to do with it? Well, that's not true. He was jumping around happy until he was booed, and then he acted upset. So when Lewis says Vettel didn't lift...well I find that hard to believe, especially given Vettel was braking, slowed down, and Lewis doesn't have his telemetry.

Edit:

Vettel was not on the throttle. He basically idled through the grass. Any idea that he "didn't life" or tried to take an advantage is absolutely not true.

 

[pachyderm]

Nope.

Lewie, brake issues on the grid already, knocks himself and Seb out.

LeClerc storms off to a historic #1 victory.

Did anyone predict a 5 second penalty would vault Lewie into the winners circle...?

 

[MOFS]

I don't understand how they can say Vettel didn't lift. He wasn't on the throttle when the car left the road (which we know, because he was slowing down - and you don't trail brake with energy regen). How do you lift more? He'll have used a little bit of throttle and brake together to keep the car stable through the grass (rally driver trick that one), but that's it.

I don't blame Lewis at all in this, but frankly, the statements he's been making are nothing but damage control. He called for a stewards investigation (which is fine - and standard), but then said he didn't have anything to do with it? Well, that's not true. He was jumping around happy until he was booed, and then he acted upset. So when Lewis says Vettel didn't lift...well I find that hard to believe, especially given Vettel was braking, slowed down, and Lewis doesn't have his telemetry.

Edit:

Vettel was not on the throttle. He basically idled through the grass. Any idea that he "didn't life" or tried to take an advantage is absolutely not true.

The stewards will have argued that he lost control, cut the corner and rejoined on the racing line. Due to his actions Lewis had nowhere to go as Seb was going across the track.

In terms of how Lewis was after the race, he’s allowed to celebrate, but he’s also not so much an idiot to celebrate when someone is visibly annoyed at the result. He tactfully implied that Seb shouldn’t have done what he did, but at the same time acknowledged he wouldn’t want this. I think his behaviour actually won him some brownie points from Seb as seen by him being defended from the boos on the podium.

 

[vrDrew]

Vettel's (on-track) suggestion that if Hamilton had "gone to the inside" of the corner is absurd. And, if anything, illustrates the rectitude of the penalty he was given.

Hamilton, following, sees Vettel slide off the left side of the track into the chicane. What driver in his right mind would deliberately then follow that out-of-control car towards the left side of the track. With Vettel out-of-control in the grass on the left Hamilton, like any sensible driver, went as far to the right as he could to stay away. But having done this, Hamilton is rewarded by the (still out of control) Vettel re-entering the circuit, cutting clear across the track to the right side. How was Hamilton to know that Vettel was going to veer all the way to the right? Especially as Vettel seemed to have no control over where his car was going?

Sorry, Vettel: You lost control of your car, and dangerously re-entered the track coming within inches of taking out another driver in the process. Take your punishment like a pro, and move on. And try not to keep crashing. Like you've done numerous times previously this season.

 

[Glideslope]

I think Ferrari may be making a point. Time penalties are unappealable however the statement released by he FIA states that competitors have the right to appeal. Despite the regulations saying they can’t.

Another example of a giant mess of regulations.

IMO, we are really starting to see the breakdown I was expecting after the untimely death of Charlie.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The stewards could have given a different penalty that was less harsh.

I do think Vettel knew he wasn’t going to back out and finish second. He was either going to win or hit the wall. He probably reasoned in doing so he’d take out his rival as well.

If they hadn’t given the penalty we could have seen Lewis try a pass in the last few laps. Not saying he would have managed, but we would all have enjoyed the spectacle.

Sadly we were robbed of this. But I think again it does show under pressure, Vettel does crack.

It should be 5-2 for Mercedes this season, but it’s 7-0. Shame for the fans.

 

[AustinIllini]

The more I watch Formula 1 the more I appreciate how great IndyCar is.

This racing is the stuff of legend
https://twitter.com/IndyCar/status/1137549503156948992

 

[an-other]

A very complicated situation, and nothing I write will convince those with passionate views. For the record, I'm old school. F1 is composed of the top tier of drivers in motorsports. Not necessarily the best drivers due to complex formula of talent, money, and opportunity. That noted, even the bottom drivers should be respected for being highly skilled.

I get frustrated with the new view of "broken down cars on the circuits." It used to be the cars would have local yellow flags for two laps or so, then racing would continue. No moving of the car. No artificial VSC or Safety Car, remove the car, then back to green. Times change. Legal liability does, too. Now cars are moved. Safety.

I'm conflicted with the Ferrari penalty. In the end I reluctantly have to agree with the stewards. Vettel's move, either intentional or unintentional forced Hamilton to take a hard evasive action to avoid a collision. The root cause of this action was Vettel cutting the corner. Someone made a comment about Charlie Whiting. Charlie's answer to Vettel's "What am I supposed to do?" would've been "slow down and don't put yourself in that situation." He offered that comment regularly, so don't think I'm being creative.

I don't think Sainz intended to block Albon in qualifying, and he was penalised, too. Different situations for sure, however I'm emphasizing intent isn't the reason for the penalty.

The reason I opened with my first paragraph is trying to determine intent is a mug's game. I've certainly seen high profile crashes involving Prost, Prost, Hill, and Villeneuve that were argued as "unintentional" and sometimes recanted. We see so many accidents that we become anaesthetised how dangerous a sport motorcar racing is. Either you're all in on safety or you're not. You can say stewards call like this are ruining F1. How would F1 survive is Vettel/Hamilton crashed and one or both was seriously injured?

I do think Ferrari made a bet regarding the stewards call, and lost. They could've easily given the position to Hamilton, waited two corners, and then attacked. The speed advantage they had on the long straight with DRS could've made a pass possible. Not a guarantee it would happen, but they could've avoided the situation of being victims of the steward's decision. Similarly, Vettel could've pulled out a 5 second lead at the end of the race.

I certainly get Vettel in the "heat of battle" wouldn't be able to process giving up the position. I think the Ferrari team failed him.

The big elephant in the middle of the room is the racing circuit. If the view is safety is paramount, then F1 shouldn't be racing on circuits without adequate run-off. I can recall reading a story by Berger and Senna where the drivers were touring Imola for driver's safety. They got to Tarumbello, and saw the geography didn't allow for anything other than a wall there. How things would've been different "if only" they didn't accept things.

I know many of you will disagree with me. That's ok. I respect your right to have your own view.

 

[circatee]

A very complicated situation, and nothing I write will convince those with passionate views. For the record, I'm old school. F1 is composed of the top tier of drivers in motorsports. Not necessarily the best drivers due to complex formula of talent, money, and opportunity. That noted, even the bottom drivers should be respected for being highly skilled.

I get frustrated with the new view of "broken down cars on the circuits." It used to be the cars would have local yellow flags for two laps or so, then racing would continue. No moving of the car. No artificial VSC or Safety Car, remove the car, then back to green. Times change. Legal liability does, too. Now cars are moved. Safety.

I'm conflicted with the Ferrari penalty. In the end I reluctantly have to agree with the stewards. Vettel's move, either intentional or unintentional forced Hamilton to take a hard evasive action to avoid a collision. The root cause of this action was Vettel cutting the corner. Someone made a comment about Charlie Whiting. Charlie's answer to Vettel's "What am I supposed to do?" would've been "slow down and don't put yourself in that situation." He offered that comment regularly, so don't think I'm being creative.

I don't think Sainz intended to block Albon in qualifying, and he was penalised, too. Different situations for sure, however I'm emphasizing intent isn't the reason for the penalty.

The reason I opened with my first paragraph is trying to determine intent is a mug's game. I've certainly seen high profile crashes involving Prost, Prost, Hill, and Villeneuve that were argued as "unintentional" and sometimes recanted. We see so many accidents that we become anaesthetised how dangerous a sport motorcar racing is. Either you're all in on safety or you're not. You can say stewards call like this are ruining F1. How would F1 survive is Vettel/Hamilton crashed and one or both was seriously injured?

I do think Ferrari made a bet regarding the stewards call, and lost. They could've easily given the position to Hamilton, waited two corners, and then attacked. The speed advantage they had on the long straight with VRS could've made a pass possible. Not a guarantee it would happen, but they could've avoided the situation of being victims of the steward's decision. Similarly, Vettel could've pulled out a 5 second lead at the end of the race.

I certainly get Vettel in the "heat of battle" wouldn't be able to process giving up the position. I think the Ferrari team failed him.

The big elephant in the middle of the room is the racing circuit. If the view is safety is paramount, then F1 shouldn't be racing on circuits without adequate run-off. I can recall reading a story by Berger and Senna where the drivers were touring Imola for driver's safety. They got to Tarumbello, and saw the geography didn't allow for anything other than a wall there. How things would've been different "if only" they didn't accept things.

I know many of you will disagree with me. That's ok. I respect your right to have your own view.

To me, this is very well written and conveyed...

 

[apolloa]

Right going to edit my post, basically I thought Lewis cheated crying Vetell joined the track dangerously, Toto was a blatant idiot defending the decision, and the stewards should all be sacked.

I know of the dirty politics played by the teams, particularly Mercedes, behind the scenes, and if they want to that it should stay there behind the scenes, to ruin a race and bring it to the fore is inexcusable IMO.
Ferrari did win in my eyes, Lewis came second. But the sport has suffered yet more damage due to the penalty and result and I think Vettel realises this..

It’s up to them to sort the mess out that F1 us fast becoming, again, and if they don’t fix it they’ll lose viewers and sponsors, again..

 

[MOFS]

Right going to edit my post, basically I thought Lewis cheated crying Vetell joined the track dangerously, Toto was a blatant idiot defending the decision, and the stewards should all be sacked.

I know of the dirty politics played by the teams, particularly Mercedes, behind the scenes, and if they want to that it should stay there behind the scenes, to ruin a race and bring it to the fore is inexcusable IMO.
Ferrari did win in my eyes, Lewis came second. But the sport has suffered yet more damage due to the penalty and result and I think Vettel realises this..

It’s up to them to sort the mess out that F1 us fast becoming, again, and if they don’t fix it they’ll lose viewers and sponsors, again..

Having seen all the fun other sports have when they have a controversial moments, I think this will pull viewers in rather than exclude them. F1 is often too processed, too prim; yesterday was a bit off the rails and the story was better for it.

 

[circatee]

I am willing to bet, if Hamilton got into an accident, the argument would be very different...

 

[pachyderm]

A very complicated situation, and nothing I write will convince those with passionate views. For the record, I'm old school. F1 is composed of the top tier of drivers in motorsports. Not necessarily the best drivers due to complex formula of talent, money, and opportunity. That noted, even the bottom drivers should be respected for being highly skilled.

I get frustrated with the new view of "broken down cars on the circuits." It used to be the cars would have local yellow flags for two laps or so, then racing would continue. No moving of the car. No artificial VSC or Safety Car, remove the car, then back to green. Times change. Legal liability does, too. Now cars are moved. Safety.

I'm conflicted with the Ferrari penalty. In the end I reluctantly have to agree with the stewards. Vettel's move, either intentional or unintentional forced Hamilton to take a hard evasive action to avoid a collision. The root cause of this action was Vettel cutting the corner. Someone made a comment about Charlie Whiting. Charlie's answer to Vettel's "What am I supposed to do?" would've been "slow down and don't put yourself in that situation." He offered that comment regularly, so don't think I'm being creative.

I don't think Sainz intended to block Albon in qualifying, and he was penalised, too. Different situations for sure, however I'm emphasizing intent isn't the reason for the penalty.

The reason I opened with my first paragraph is trying to determine intent is a mug's game. I've certainly seen high profile crashes involving Prost, Prost, Hill, and Villeneuve that were argued as "unintentional" and sometimes recanted. We see so many accidents that we become anaesthetised how dangerous a sport motorcar racing is. Either you're all in on safety or you're not. You can say stewards call like this are ruining F1. How would F1 survive is Vettel/Hamilton crashed and one or both was seriously injured?

I do think Ferrari made a bet regarding the stewards call, and lost. They could've easily given the position to Hamilton, waited two corners, and then attacked. The speed advantage they had on the long straight with VRS could've made a pass possible. Not a guarantee it would happen, but they could've avoided the situation of being victims of the steward's decision. Similarly, Vettel could've pulled out a 5 second lead at the end of the race.

I certainly get Vettel in the "heat of battle" wouldn't be able to process giving up the position. I think the Ferrari team failed him.

The big elephant in the middle of the room is the racing circuit. If the view is safety is paramount, then F1 shouldn't be racing on circuits without adequate run-off. I can recall reading a story by Berger and Senna where the drivers were touring Imola for driver's safety. They got to Tarumbello, and saw the geography didn't allow for anything other than a wall there. How things would've been different "if only" they didn't accept things.

I know many of you will disagree with me. That's ok. I respect your right to have your own view.

Good post.

I agree for the most part.

I don't agree with what I consider "snobbery" in that first line.

There are plenty of incredibly good racers not in F1.

Getting a race in F1 doesn't automatically make you one of the best in the world.

 

[an-other]

My intent wasn't to say F1 is composed of the best drivers of any race series. It was to say those drivers that do make it to F1 have massive or top tier talent.

I'm definitely not saying you can pull a Giovanni Lavaggi from F1 to another series and he'd dominate it. He was still a heckuva racer.

F1 (or even open wheel racing) is also not the dream of many drivers.

 

[vrDrew]

Right going to edit my post, basically I thought Lewis cheated crying Vetell joined the track dangerously, Toto was a blatant idiot defending the decision, and the stewards should all be sacked.

Have you listened to the drivers' radio feed?

Drivers whinge all the time about what the guy in front of them, or behind them, or next to them do. It's a constant feature of the team radio channel. I, personally, find it hard to believe they can carry on a conversation at all, driving the speeds that they do..

The only cheating that went on was Vettel rejoining the track in an unsafe manner. F1 puts in chicanes, and has marked track boundaries for a reason: namely to force the drivers to moderate their speed and control at various points on the circuit. They do this to improve safety and to make the track itself more challenging. The rules very clearly state that there are penalties for violating track limits, and for re-entering the circuit in an unsafe manner.

To claim that the Stewards penalised Vettel because of F1 political pressure is absurd: F1 and the FIA aren't happy with a result where the leading driver has his win taken away. Its bad optics for the sport, and angers many fans. But if F1 is to maintain its position as a credible sporting organisation - as compared to professional wrestling - then it needs to have clear rules that are consistently enforced. Failing to penalise Vettel for a very clear violation of the rules, just to mollify the emotions of the Tifosi and many of the other fans, would have been an abrogation of that responsibility.

 

[pachyderm]

My intent wasn't to say F1 is composed of the best drivers of any race series. It was to say those drivers that do make it to F1 have massive or top tier talent.

I'm definitely not saying you can pull a Giovanni Lavaggi from F1 to another series and he'd dominate it. He was still a heckuva racer.

F1 (or even open wheel racing) is also not the dream of many drivers.

And now you're badmouthing Johnny "Carwash"...