2019 Formula 1 Season Thread

[an-other]

I can't foresee 44 retiring whilst he's in reach of beating Schumacher's records. That means 2021 if he is successful (and we all know there's no guarantee he will be.) It's hard to say, especially after this last race, his form is on the decline.

It would be hard to rate Russell over Ocon at this time. Out of site, out of mind. Mercedes has data we don't see from parallel tests (and possibly simulator), so I'm sure they have an informed point-of-view. Ocon is managed by Toto, too. I still can't see Bottas being shown the door, however stranger things certainly occur.

Interesting thought: Kubica was a highly rated driver before his accident. The assumption is he's lost a bit, age and a "B car" is making him slower than Russell at Williams. What if Kubica hasn't lost a step and has equal equipment? That would make Russell even more impressive. Either way, I have a lot of time for Kubica. His tenaciousness transcends sport.

Motorsports is one of the few sports where pure talent is not a guarantee of success. Being in the right place at the right time and commercial considerations are significant factors. I can recall when the general consensus was Hamilton was nuts to leave McLaren for Mercedes.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I can't foresee 44 retiring whilst he's in reach of beating Schumacher's records. That means 2021 if he is successful (and we all know there's no guarantee he will be.) It's hard to say, especially after this last race, his form is on the decline.

It would be hard to rate Russell over Ocon at this time. Out of site, out of mind. Mercedes has data we don't see from parallel tests (and possibly simulator), so I'm sure they have an informed point-of-view. Ocon is managed by Toto, too. I still can't see Bottas being shown the door, however stranger things certainly occur.

Interesting thought: Kubica was a highly rated driver before his accident. The assumption is he's lost a bit, age and a "B car" is making him slower than Russell at Williams. What if Kubica hasn't lost a step and has equal equipment? That would make Russell even more impressive. Either way, I have a lot of time for Kubica. His tenaciousness transcends sport.

Motorsports is one of the few sports where pure talent is not a guarantee of success. Being in the right place at the right time and commercial considerations are significant factors. I can recall when the general consensus was Hamilton was nuts to leave McLaren for Mercedes.

Absolutely. Some drivers have the talent but always seem to pick the wrong team like Alonso.
Others might not have been the best but found themselves in the best car and won (Button).

But Lewis has done consistently well with his talent and choices since entering F1. I think he will continue racing until his car is no longer competitive.

 

[circatee]

I do feel sorry for Grosjean. So many accidents, or faults to his car. Poor lad...

 

[Apple fanboy]

I do feel sorry for Grosjean. So many accidents, or faults to his car. Poor lad...

Really? He needs to move on to something he’s more suited to like..... banger racing.

 

[pachyderm]

I can't foresee 44 retiring whilst he's in reach of beating Schumacher's records. That means 2021 if he is successful (and we all know there's no guarantee he will be.) It's hard to say, especially after this last race, his form is on the decline.

...

Motorsports is one of the few sports where pure talent is not a guarantee of success. Being in the right place at the right time and commercial considerations are significant factors. I can recall when the general consensus was Hamilton was nuts to leave McLaren for Mercedes.

You're not serious, are you?

I'm no Hamilton fan but I don't in any way, shape, or form, believe his talent/form is in decline.

Unless something unforeseen happens I believe he will beat MS's records.

 

[Apple fanboy]

You're not serious, are you?

I'm no Hamilton fan but I don't in any way, shape, or form, believe his talent/form is in decline.

Unless something unforeseen happens I believe he will beat MS's records.

Well he was ill 2 weeks ago and didn’t get pole last week. That’s about as much as a decline as he has!

 

[an-other]

My apologies for awkward connecting of words. My intention was to say there's no evidence of any decline. Or, better said: he's at the top of his game. I'm not convinced he's peaked as I rate Bottas (and understand I'm in a minority.)

That's quite an accomplishment based on his longevity in the sport.

I think he'll get the 92 wins. Not sure about 8 championships. Unlike Schumacher, Hamilton's teammates have been able to race him. Sure team orders later in the season. You never saw Eddie (except for the broken leg year), Rubens (in Rossa Corsa) or Felipe (2006) compete for the championship. Nico won one.

The 92 win is a tough stat for me. It's an impressive achievement, however it's inflated by the increased number of races year over year. Would Jackie Stewart have more than 27 wins if there were more races on the calendar in his day?

 

[Apple fanboy]

My apologies for awkward connecting of words. My intention was to say there's no evidence of any decline. Or, better said: he's at the top of his game. I'm not convinced he's peaked as I rate Bottas (and understand I'm in a minority.)

That's quite an accomplishment based on his longevity in the sport.

I think he'll get the 92 wins. Not sure about 8 championships. Unlike Schumacher, Hamilton's teammates have been able to race him. Sure team orders later in the season. You never saw Eddie (except for the broken leg year), Rubens (in Rossa Corsa) or Felipe (2006) compete for the championship. Nico won one.

The 92 win is a tough stat for me. It's an impressive achievement, however it's inflated by the increased number of races year over year. Would Jackie Stewart have more than 27 wins if there were more races on the calendar in his day?

Absolutely. The number of wins is not comparable these days. Not with all those races each year.

 

[nebo1ss]

Absolutely. Some drivers have the talent but always seem to pick the wrong team like Alonso.
Others might not have been the best but found themselves in the best car and won (Button).

But Lewis has done consistently well with his talent and choices since entering F1. I think he will continue racing until his car is no longer competitive.[/QUOTE

Absolutely. Some drivers have the talent but always seem to pick the wrong team like Alonso.
Others might not have been the best but found themselves in the best car and won (Button).

But Lewis has done consistently well with his talent and choices since entering F1. I think he will continue racing until his car is no longer competitive.

Have you forgotten that Alonso and Hamilton were both in the McLaren team and Lewis was consistently beating him.

 

[ftaok]

The 92 win is a tough stat for me. It's an impressive achievement, however it's inflated by the increased number of races year over year. Would Jackie Stewart have more than 27 wins if there were more races on the calendar in his day?

This was an interesting thought, so I looked up winning percentage. Lewis has won 34% of his starts. Jackie Stewart won 27% of his starts. Of all the modern racers, Lewis is tops in winning percentage. His career had been very impressive.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Have you forgotten that Alonso and Hamilton were both in the McLaren team and Lewis was consistently beating him.

Not at all. But Alonso never seemed to be in the best car. If he’d been at RBR or Mercedes he’d have won more championships.
Then he left McLaren for the second time just as they get past their power and reliability issues.
[doublepost=1565327590][/doublepost]

This was an interesting thought, so I looked up winning percentage. Lewis has won 34% of his starts. Jackie Stewart won 27% of his starts. Of all the modern racers, Lewis is tops in winning percentage. His career had been very impressive.

View attachment 852208

Probably a fairer test.
Of course there is an argument that to race in a 20+ W.C. and win shows more skill than a 10 or 12 W.C.
especially as back then your rivals might not always finish.
When I started watching it wasn’t uncommon for nearly half the field to not make it to the end. These days, barring any accidents maybe 1 or 2 will break down at most.

 

[an-other]

I think Vuckovich and Wallard make the list from competing in the Indy 500 which was once counted in F1.

It's interesting to think of drivers that "you'd think" would be on this list, but are not.

Alain Prost is noteworthy to me here. He won races with Renault, McLaren, Ferrari, and Williams. He always raced his teammates that were World Champions or "next big thing". (Saying something complimentary about Prost is not saying something negative about Senna. Let's not start that. I still wear Senna paraphernalia.)

The Stewart era was mostly Cosworth engines shared by the majority of teams.

An open question: When was the last time an American finished on the podium? (I'm thinking it's Michael Andretti in Monza or Eddie Cheever in Phoenix.) I have no recollection of an American winning a race. It has to be Mario in 1978 or so. Back in those days you had to read about F1 versus catching races on US TV (with the exception of an occasional Wild World of Sports random event.) That's over 40 years ago for those scoring at home.

 

[MOFS]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/24051

Red Bull Racing has confirmed that Alexander Albon will race alongside Max Verstappen at the Formula 1 team for the remainder of 2019, with Pierre Gasly returning to Toro Rosso.

In some ways not a surprise, but not sure how replacing Gasly with Albon is not putting Albon at risk of the same thing happening. Albon was dropped from the Red Bull programme and was only put in the seat because Dan Ticktum (at the time the foremost Red Bull junior driver) didn’t have enough superlicence points.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It will be interesting to see if he steps up. But they are only looking for a number two driver to Max. That’s why Ricardo left. Shame as he was one of my favourite drivers and that Renault isn’t going to deliver any podiums in the next year or two without a very big crash on lap one!

 

[Glideslope]

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/24051



In some ways not a surprise, but not sure how replacing Gasly with Albon is not putting Albon at risk of the same thing happening. Albon was dropped from the Red Bull programme and was only put in the seat because Dan Ticktum (at the time the foremost Red Bull junior driver) didn’t have enough superlicence points.

It puts Albon in the same situation. I don’t see this being beneficial to RBR. Albon will simply be an on track R&D driver for RBR. Short stick for both drivers as far as I’m concerned. I’m just thrilled to see Honda back in top form.

 

[BenTrovato]

It puts Albon in the same situation. I don’t see this being beneficial to RBR. Albon will simply be an on track R&D driver for RBR. Short stick for both drivers as far as I’m concerned. I’m just thrilled to see Honda back in top form.

I agree.. not the best situations for them. It's gotta be tough in F1 to be demoted. I wonder how it will be between Kvyat and Gasly now, two demoted drivers racing against each other.

 

[CWallace]

In some ways not a surprise, but not sure how replacing Gasly with Albon is not putting Albon at risk of the same thing happening.

I guess they're hoping Albon will step up more than Gasly did.

I agree.. not the best situations for them. It's gotta be tough in F1 to be demoted. I wonder how it will be between Kvyat and Gasly now, two demoted drivers racing against each other.

I expect one of them will make way once Ticktum is able to take a seat, I imagine. If Albon doesn't cut it, I guess they get promoted back to RBR and if Albon does cut it, then they are let go.

 

[MOFS]

I expect one of them will make way once Ticktum is able to take a seat, I imagine. If Albon doesn't cut it, I guess they get promoted back to RBR and if Albon does cut it, then they are let go.

Ticktum has been dumped. The next hope is Patricio O’Ward.

https://www.crash.net/other/news/924379/1/o-ward-takes-over-ticktums-super-formula-drive-red-bull

I’m actually more excited now for Jamie Chadwick, who won the inaugural Formula W series. Would like to see her get a proper (ie not just promotional) spot at one of the teams.

 

[pachyderm]

I guess they're hoping Albon will step up more than Gasly did.




I expect one of them will make way once Ticktum is able to take a seat, I imagine. If Albon doesn't cut it, I guess they get promoted back to RBR and if Albon does cut it, then they are let go.

And Albon has had a pretty decent season, right?

16 points in a Torro Rosso isn't too bad although not as many as his teammate.

Kvyat has already had a shot with the big team, right?

This seems to me to be a move just to see how good he is and if he is worth keeping around.

 

[Apple fanboy]

And Albon has had a pretty decent season, right?

16 points in a Torro Rosso isn't too bad although not as many as his teammate.

Kvyat has already had a shot with the big team, right?

This seems to me to be a move just to see how good he is and if he is worth keeping around.

So really telling Kvyat he’s never getting another chance.

 

[an-other]

Kyvat may get another chance. You never know with Red Bull. That noted, Kyvat had his shot. I can understand the logic of seeing what Albon can do. I've seen nothing saying this is beyond this season.

Kyvat has had a tough go. It's got to be tough for him to process. I hope both Kyvat and Albon do well to make it really interesting.

 

[BenTrovato]

Kyvat may get another chance. You never know with Red Bull. That noted, Kyvat had his shot. I can understand the logic of seeing what Albon can do. I've seen nothing saying this is beyond this season.

Kyvat has had a tough go. It's got to be tough for him to process. I hope both Kyvat and Albon do well to make it really interesting.

I'm sure Marko made the argument that more than half of Kvyat's points came from the hectic German GP where even Lance Stroll finished fourth. I'm not 100% sure on the numbers but I think Kvyat leads the teammate battle with Albon in qualy's, race finishes, and point finishes. So it's kind of confusing when Horner says the reason they demoted Gasly was they need more consistent point finishes to challenge Ferrari because Kvyat would have been the better option for that imo. They just should have said we want to see what Albon can do, because that's what they're doing.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'm sure Marko made the argument that more than half of Kvyat's points came from the hectic German GP where even Lance Stroll finished fourth. I'm not 100% sure on the numbers but I think Kvyat leads the teammate battle with Albon in qualy's, race finishes, and point finishes. So it's kind of confusing when Horner says the reason they demoted Gasly was they need more consistent point finishes to challenge Ferrari because Kvyat would have been the better option for that imo. They just should have said we want to see what Albon can do, because that's what they're doing.

Don’t forget of course the team are seeing a lot more data than we do. There maybe some offset between the drivers that we can’t see from the outside.

 

[BenTrovato]

Don’t forget of course the team are seeing a lot more data than we do. There maybe some offset between the drivers that we can’t see from the outside.

For sure. I can only imagine how much data they have. I’m starting to like the mid-season driver swap. Something to look forward to for Spa.

 

[an-other]

To add to Apple Fanboy's comment: I would suspect how the drivers perform as part of the Friday and Saturday practice programmes also influenced the decision process. Consistency lap after lap is critical to get good testing data to evaluate parts/tyre compounds. (The story goes Nigel Mansell was challenged at this. He only could drive 10/10, and frustrated engineers trying to figure out if the new add-ons were any good. I have no knowledge this is true, however it does fit the Mansell persona charm.)