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2025 Formula One Season Thread

CWallace said:
Another aspect that LawVS makes in his latest video is that F1 today is as much about entertainment as it is engineering. While many old school fans hate it, "Drive to Survive" and "F1 the Movie" have brought in millions of new fans to the sport.
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I think from a general fan perspective, F1 is now more about entertainment then engineering, cretainly when fans are discussing the sport. Nobody cares about car development, driver set up, live timing, or any other technical aspect that plays a huge role in the success of teams and drivers. I find if you enter discussions (away from here) and talk about the reasons a team had issues and go into any details, the defaut response is thatt he driver is rubbish and Lando Norris' new girlfriend doesn't deserve him.
 
The-Real-Deal82 said:
I think from a general fan perspective, F1 is now more about entertainment then engineering, cretainly when fans are discussing the sport. Nobody cares about car development, driver set up, live timing, or any other technical aspect that plays a huge role in the success of teams and drivers. I find if you enter discussions (away from here) and talk about the reasons a team had issues and go into any details, the defaut response is thatt he driver is rubbish and Lando Norris' new girlfriend doesn't deserve him.
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We clearly speak to different people! The people I talk F1 with IRL probably have as much of an idea as to who Lando’s girlfriend is as I do.
 
Apple fanboy said:
We clearly speak to different people! The people I talk F1 with IRL probably have as much of an idea as to who Lando’s girlfriend is as I do.
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Only one of my colleagues takes an interest in F1, and she admits to watching Drive to Survive, but she (like me) is all over the tech stuff, tactics, and course intricacies.
 
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Mostly here and sometimes on reddit.

I used to be a member on an F1 forum but it shut down.

Had an old college roomie who loved F1 until Damon Hill retired. He hasn't been bothered to talk about it for a long time now. :(

He's a Spurs fan and a USMNT fan so we talk about the footy a lot.
 
It is such an odd thing, the broadcaster here does broadcast Nascar and Indycar, but does exactly 0% advertising of it, you have to check the schedule to find when the race is on, and when it is broadcast, the broadcaster here has spent the least it could, it has vietually no commentary, long pauses in commentary, ad breaks on the local in the US I assume, a wide camera is used...

We do get it live, but I had no idea who was who, I watched a bit of the Indy500, but 300 laps of a 1 mile oval, truly awful.. Nastycar is what I have heard it called here, boring as watching stainless steel rust...

A bloke from Indy wants to race in F1? I hope he gets a sponsorship from Tena for Men, he will fill his diapers with the 1st lap in a wet race.. And then run home to mommy Indy and never speak of F1 again..

The US don't race in anything that might be considered damp or wet.. Or if there is lightning within 200 miles of the US..
 
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Madonepro said:
Have you forgotten that Horner is no longer with Red Bull 🥹

The interesting part of Forumula E, is that the cars are essentially the same, and so it comes down to 'driver skill', and it demonstrates, in my view anyways, that there is little difference between the drivers abilities.
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I understand that view. I simply find it bland from a technical standpoint. F1 has always been more about the WCC than the WDC for me. I simply don't see it with E-Racing. I don't own a PHEV for the thrill of the commute to and from the market. ;)
 
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Glideslope said:
I understand that view. I simply find it bland from a technical standpoint. F1 has always been more about the WCC than the WDC for me. I simply don't see it with E-Racing. I don't own a PHEV for the thrill of the commute to and from the market. ;)
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Go Kart racing is where it's at. Simple fun, with the skill of the driver so clearly evident.
 
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Is there nothing worse in sport than E-Prix, the most bland, most boring, most useless formula devised, ok, there was only 1 series worse, A1GP, but then E-Prix is A1GP for E cars, and there is nothing more dull than watching useless cars on stupid tracks, that sound stupid, and look stupid..

Indycar and Nascar are just a fraction better than E-Prix... We have E-Prix broadcast here, and I cannot stand it.. But then F1 is heading towards irrelevence within a decade, by 2030, F1 will be a useless failed formula, as all the cars will be identical in terms of aero, a product of wind-tunnels and computers, and PHD's.. We are watching evolution of a formula into a tech cul du saq..
 
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JustinePaula said:
Is there nothing worse in sport than E-Prix, the most bland, most boring, most useless formula devised, ok, there was only 1 series worse, A1GP, but then E-Prix is A1GP for E cars, and there is nothing more dull than watching useless cars on stupid tracks, that sound stupid, and look stupid..

Indycar and Nascar are just a fraction better than E-Prix... We have E-Prix broadcast here, and I cannot stand it.. But then F1 is heading towards irrelevence within a decade, by 2030, F1 will be a useless failed formula, as all the cars will be identical in terms of aero, a product of wind-tunnels and computers, and PHD's.. We are watching evolution of a formula into a tech cul du saq..
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Is that not the point of a formula? To create a car, with a subset of design and build parameters, and allow constructers to create. What's happening now, is the regulations are so tight, that the only 'solution' is so similar amongst cars. Fortunately, drivers also have unique driving characteristics, that will differentiate them from other drivers, e.g. Lewis Hamilton brakes a lot later, than most drivers in F1 history.
 
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F1 was about who has the best car.. The best car was used to flog swag, oil, brakes, etc, now with the insanity within the FIA, what they cannot see is that the regulations now demand that we have an F2+ formula, in which the cars are by design going to be the same, hence the advent of DRS, if you have 2 cars that are aerodynamically identical, there is no way to overtake, from a mechanical point, yes, driver ability..

All the cars are heading towards the same "formula" this is cause they are all using the same CAD, the same PHD's, the math in this case maths.. There is nothing anyone can do, we have engineered through legislation the destruction of Formula 1.. It cannot proceed, it is on a path of mutual destruction.. There is only 1 end point, every car will be identical, and thus the only way to win, is through talent alone, we call this Formula 2.. In many ways a better formula as it is driver v driver, the car is removed from the equation..
 
JustinePaula said:
F1 was about who has the best car.. The best car was used to flog swag, oil, brakes, etc, now with the insanity within the FIA, what they cannot see is that the regulations now demand that we have an F2+ formula, in which the cars are by design going to be the same, hence the advent of DRS, if you have 2 cars that are aerodynamically identical, there is no way to overtake, from a mechanical point, yes, driver ability..

All the cars are heading towards the same "formula" this is cause they are all using the same CAD, the same PHD's, the math in this case maths.. There is nothing anyone can do, we have engineered through legislation the destruction of Formula 1.. It cannot proceed, it is on a path of mutual destruction.. There is only 1 end point, every car will be identical, and thus the only way to win, is through talent alone, we call this Formula 2.. In many ways a better formula as it is driver v driver, the car is removed from the equation..
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I doubt any team would agree with your hypothesis. Every team is attempting to squeeze performance out of their cars, and find the loop hole, or unventured tweak to aerodynamics to gain that tenth of a second. There are lots of examples of how tweaking a certain way, and following that path, leads to one driver doing better than the other, Red Bull case in question, only recently has Max been able to tweak his car back to where he can drive it, and the 2nd drivers are even further away.
 
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The regulations are a box, all the boxes are the same, what you do in the box is of no consequence, you cannot change the dimensions of the box, so yes they can tweak this, adjust that, but within a short time, each team will come to the same end point, yes it will take time, but they are all heading in the same tech final end point.. The teams know this, if they don't then they should hand back the PHD's and go back to kindergarten..
 
Madonepro said:
Is that not the point of a formula? To create a car, with a subset of design and build parameters, and allow constructers to create. What's happening now, is the regulations are so tight, that the only 'solution' is so similar amongst cars. Fortunately, drivers also have unique driving characteristics, that will differentiate them from other drivers, e.g. Lewis Hamilton brakes a lot later, than most drivers in F1 history.
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I don't necessarily thinks it's the regulations' fault that all the cars look the same. With computational design and testing getting more and more capable you see less room for novel designs. In the past, a designer like Newey would combine their intuition with testing to iterate their way to a final design, but now computers optimize the designs mathematically before a part is ever built. Since all teams are tying to solve the same sets of equations the products will be similar. And with advances in computer modeling the compromises made in the simulations are becoming less of a restriction.
 
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It is called the Delta Wing concept, if you want to go fast, in terms of aeroplanes, you need a certain design in terms of wings, from the 1st areoplane to the Concorde, the path of design was linear, it was only ever going to end with the Delta Wing, and there cannot be anything beyond the Delta Wing, it is the end point of wing design for a certain application/vehicle...

Formula 1, has a fixed set of regulations, and as we continue to innovate, we adjust the regulations, to remove innovation and to ensure the mutual destruction of the formula.. You cannot have it both ways, an open formula or a closed formula.. Either or.. Open formula ensures longer duration to destruction, closed formula speeds up the time to the destruction of the formula as we know it...

F1 cannot innovate, we have moved passed that point.. We are now on the fast path of mutual destruction..
 
headlessmike said:
I don't necessarily thinks it's the regulations' fault that all the cars look the same. With computational design and testing getting more and more capable you see less room for novel designs. In the past, a designer like Newey would combine their intuition with testing to iterate their way to a final design, but now computers optimize the designs mathematically before a part is ever built. Since all teams are tying to solve the same sets of equations the products will be similar. And with advances in computer modeling the compromises made in the simulations are becoming less of a restriction.
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With the oft stated reasoning for F1, being where future car technologies are modelled and tested, it's understandable, that a highly technical sport, is encroaching into the world of AI, and advanced computing. The formulas are meant to be fluid, and maybe there is a future, where there is pushback on these aspects of design. Currently, with limited testing sessions, and a push to have more, would demonstrate, that maybe computing isn't giving all the answers, and in particular, the profiles of the circuits, and the characteristics of them, still play a huge part.
 
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JustinePaula said:
It is called the Delta Wing concept, if you want to go fast, in terms of aeroplanes, you need a certain design in terms of wings, from the 1st areoplane to the Concorde, the path of design was linear, it was only ever going to end with the Delta Wing, and there cannot be anything beyond the Delta Wing, it is the end point of wing design for a certain application/vehicle...

Formula 1, has a fixed set of regulations, and as we continue to innovate, we adjust the regulations, to remove innovation and to ensure the mutual destruction of the formula.. You cannot have it both ways, an open formula or a closed formula.. Either or.. Open formula ensures longer duration to destruction, closed formula speeds up the time to the destruction of the formula as we know it...

F1 cannot innovate, we have moved passed that point.. We are now on the fast path of mutual destruction..
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That is such a defeatist attitude, and I personally feel, an incorrect one. There are still many aspects of a car's design, which allow for innovation, narrower cars have unique aerodynamic forces, as we saw a couple of years ago, the change caused many a perplexed engineer, attempting to find a solution to stop porpoising, whilst exploiting ground effect.
 
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headlessmike said:
I don't necessarily thinks it's the regulations' fault that all the cars look the same. With computational design and testing getting more and more capable you see less room for novel designs. In the past, a designer like Newey would combine their intuition with testing to iterate their way to a final design, but now computers optimize the designs mathematically before a part is ever built. Since all teams are tying to solve the same sets of equations the products will be similar. And with advances in computer modeling the compromises made in the simulations are becoming less of a restriction.
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I agree. In 2022 at the beginning of the current rules, there were quite a few differences between cars. Think of the designs of the Mercedes, Ferarris and Redbulls etc. But over the years they all converged on similar designs.
 
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m.. said:
I agree. In 2022 at the beginning of the current rules, there were quite a few differences between cars. Think of the designs of the Mercedes, Ferarris and Redbulls etc. But over the years they all converged on similar designs.
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We've seen that over the years though, the Lotus and Benetton years all blended into one. We have to look at the sport, and ask what is we want of it. Do we want the best engineered car to win, or the best driver? Motor racing formulas have always been about attempting to level the playing field, and let it's 'stars' the 'brave' drivers to take the limelight.
 
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Glideslope said:
Really positive interview on Good Morning America this morning with Sergio and Valtteri on their role in Cadillac and the upcoming challenges. 👍
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I think this is the right choice for the team, though sounds like CEO Dan Towriss needed some convincing on the pairing.



In other news, the Dutch Grand Prix this weekend is expected to be cold, windy and wet.
 
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