Rogifan
macrumors Penryn
Dumb. They should get 12GB RAM.
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2027 iPhone 18 and iPhone 18e to Get 9GB RAM and A20 Chip
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Rogifan
macrumors Penryn
I find it quite concerning the number of people apparently melting down about Apple prices. I haven’t seen this many all caps posts in a long time. Perhaps it is time for Macrumors to run a take it easy post.
I’ve decided to not purchase anything until the AI bubble passes. When the best models have a 24% error rate and this won’t improve with hyper-scaling the money for AI isn’t worth the lemon 🍋 that AI in reality. I wouldn’t buy any other tool/instruments that was wrong that often.
I’ve decided to not purchase anything until the AI bubble passes. When the best models have a 24% error rate and this won’t improve with hyper-scaling the money for AI isn’t worth the lemon 🍋 that AI in reality. I wouldn’t buy any other tool/instruments that was wrong that often.
keyword: best
this is the standard phone not the pro, it won't always have the best features and that's okay.
Tagbert
macrumors 604
You don’t understand; we are all forced to buy a new phone every year because our old phones are obsolete and can no longer run software. Also, we must complain about having to pay for a price increase. Those are the rules.
/s
Abydos
macrumors 6502a
this one is too good to be true, the three day weather forecast from NWS is allegedly 75% accurate so it has a higher failure rate than AI and we pay for it - don't overestimate the precision of predictions involving complex systems
JPack
macrumors P6
That's why I put it in quotes.
There's regular Siri AI (8GB) and the "Pro" Siri AI (12GB) with better speech and dictation.
Either way, there is bifurcation. Most importantly, there shouldn't be expectation that the base MacBook, iPhone, or iPad run the Pro version.
Tsepz
macrumors 603
If the 18 Pro/18 Pro Max as well as Ultra/Fold are getting 12GB RAM, then that will bode well for 17 Pro/17 Pro Max and Air longevity. 👌
I imagine the chip config is because the A20 chip has more memory channels but Apple doesn't want the expense of 6x 2GiB chips (which would incidentally be the rumored 12GB). If that's true I'm sure 12GB was on the roadmap for 18 before the RAMpocolypse.
mikeack
macrumors member
I have a feeling this bifurcation between devices with different RAM configs is due to incompetence rather than being deliberate. Note that much of the following is guesswork rather than having any insider knowledge. Apple didn’t even get into AI until December 2022 when it was said Craig Federighi saw a demo of Microsoft’s Co-pilot in its early stages. The Apple Watch Ultra 1 had already been released the previous September along with the Watch 8. Apple previously had been intent on their machine learning rather than full-blown AI and planned that way. That explains why the Ultra 1 and the 6, 7, and 8 got left out in the cold. The 6, 7, and 8 had essentially the same chip, just repackaged, so all three got deprecated, getting only 3 years of software support. They simply didn’t plan well. WatchOS 27 doesn’t have enough features without Siri AI to make a release for those watches worthwhile.
Now we’ve got the 8GB versus 9GB versus 12GB issue. Apple released the iPhone 17’s back in September, nine months ago. At that time, Apple devices required 8GB of memory to get their top LLM. Then a few months later, Apple gives up on their approach, finding they can’t get Siri to work very well. Apple bites the bullet and announces they have to license Gemini to help train their models. Their model goes from a few million inputs to over a billion inputs to make it actually do something useful. Whoops, it doesn’t work on 8GB anymore if they put in all the features. They figure out what features they can strip minimally to get it to work well with 8GB, so Siri voice configuration and advanced dictation got the boot. They look at all their current devices and find they go from 8GB to 12GB with nothing in between and announce their top-end LLM requires 12GB to work properly. In reality, they probably got it to work with 9GB, but Apple has no 9GB devices at the moment. But perhaps, alternatively, they also have new plans for future features that will require 12GB to operate correctly that Google’s inputs opened up for them. Apple does try to plan years in advance, but getting caught flat footed with AI messed all of that up. They should have docked Tim Cook’s bonuses for that.
Basically, what I’m saying is that Apple’s incompetence has forced two periods of drastic corrections in their product lines. First in early 2023 they have to change course, moving from machine learning to full blown AI (yes, machine learning is elementary AI, just not called AI). The chip in the iPhone 15 series were already designed months before the decision to change course, so it didn’t work with the new AI. Why did the iPhone 16 Pros work with AI but the iPhone 16 didn’t? I suspect compatibility was pure luck rather than Apple’s “careful” planning. Apple plans their phones at least two years in advance, so I think the iPhone 16 Pros got lucky while the iPhone 16’s didn’t. We know this with some plans already leaked for the iPhone 20 before the 17’s even came out. Maybe the A18 was already finalized and would cost too much to revise? Or, alternatively, AI was still new enough that Apple simply didn’t bother to revise their plans to make the non-pros work. Apple had already decided to gimp non-pros to make the pros stand out more with regards to core counts and cameras.
Then the second course change happens when Apple admits they screwed up on Siri and had to go running to Google to bail them out. By then, the iPhone 17 non-pros were already out and were left high and dry on the top-end LLM. Perhaps to enable dictation, 9GB really is needed instead of 12GB. But Apple gives guidance to developers to go with 12GB with new future plans in mind. Yes, this part is pure guess work, but it makes sense with Apple’s two major course corrections. Messing up does tend to ruin short term plans.
So again, I attribute this to incompetence, rather than malice. Apple got in over its head and we all pay the price. I think we can all acknowledge Apple didn’t know what it was doing regarding AI for the last several years, and it took till this year before they finally figured things out. At least we hope they did. I wouldn’t be surprised to find a few more issues over the next year or two.
Now we’ve got the 8GB versus 9GB versus 12GB issue. Apple released the iPhone 17’s back in September, nine months ago. At that time, Apple devices required 8GB of memory to get their top LLM. Then a few months later, Apple gives up on their approach, finding they can’t get Siri to work very well. Apple bites the bullet and announces they have to license Gemini to help train their models. Their model goes from a few million inputs to over a billion inputs to make it actually do something useful. Whoops, it doesn’t work on 8GB anymore if they put in all the features. They figure out what features they can strip minimally to get it to work well with 8GB, so Siri voice configuration and advanced dictation got the boot. They look at all their current devices and find they go from 8GB to 12GB with nothing in between and announce their top-end LLM requires 12GB to work properly. In reality, they probably got it to work with 9GB, but Apple has no 9GB devices at the moment. But perhaps, alternatively, they also have new plans for future features that will require 12GB to operate correctly that Google’s inputs opened up for them. Apple does try to plan years in advance, but getting caught flat footed with AI messed all of that up. They should have docked Tim Cook’s bonuses for that.
Basically, what I’m saying is that Apple’s incompetence has forced two periods of drastic corrections in their product lines. First in early 2023 they have to change course, moving from machine learning to full blown AI (yes, machine learning is elementary AI, just not called AI). The chip in the iPhone 15 series were already designed months before the decision to change course, so it didn’t work with the new AI. Why did the iPhone 16 Pros work with AI but the iPhone 16 didn’t? I suspect compatibility was pure luck rather than Apple’s “careful” planning. Apple plans their phones at least two years in advance, so I think the iPhone 16 Pros got lucky while the iPhone 16’s didn’t. We know this with some plans already leaked for the iPhone 20 before the 17’s even came out. Maybe the A18 was already finalized and would cost too much to revise? Or, alternatively, AI was still new enough that Apple simply didn’t bother to revise their plans to make the non-pros work. Apple had already decided to gimp non-pros to make the pros stand out more with regards to core counts and cameras.
Then the second course change happens when Apple admits they screwed up on Siri and had to go running to Google to bail them out. By then, the iPhone 17 non-pros were already out and were left high and dry on the top-end LLM. Perhaps to enable dictation, 9GB really is needed instead of 12GB. But Apple gives guidance to developers to go with 12GB with new future plans in mind. Yes, this part is pure guess work, but it makes sense with Apple’s two major course corrections. Messing up does tend to ruin short term plans.
So again, I attribute this to incompetence, rather than malice. Apple got in over its head and we all pay the price. I think we can all acknowledge Apple didn’t know what it was doing regarding AI for the last several years, and it took till this year before they finally figured things out. At least we hope they did. I wouldn’t be surprised to find a few more issues over the next year or two.
Crazy, isn’t it? Guys getting unbelievably angry that the following years phone isn’t sufficiently compelling a purchase to them.
Yes, because your phone’s hardware is only a year old! No **** there’s not a massive leap.
What are you even complaining about at that point; that you’ve got too much money in your account?
Tyler O'Bannon
macrumors 65816
I’m guessing 12GB was planned and this is in response to unprecedented price increases for RAM and Storage
MysteriousStain
macrumors 6502
EugW
macrumors P6
People on this forum are the 1% of iPhone geekdom. 😉 Anecdotally I only know 2 people (outside of online forums) who upgrade(d) every year. One is someone who writes it off as a business expense every year, and just gives away the old ones to various family members. The other person is a designer for iOS apps and websites, who also writes off the phone as a business expense, but even that person doesn't upgrade every year anymore.
Everyone else I know gets one every 2-5 years. I just upgraded to a 17 Pro after 5 years with the 12 Pro Max. My wife will get upgraded to the 19 Pro Max after 5 years with the 14 Pro Max. Our kids get the handmedowns (although I did get a 16e for my tween kid after the hand-me-down XR died). The people who get one every 2 years are often on contract, and some of those actually get older refurbished models, usually one year or so behind.
However, I do admit that for those who do buy every year and sell their old one year-old one at the same time actually do pretty well. One year-old iPhones in mint condition command a pretty decent price on the used market, so that goes a very long way to paying for the brand new iPhone.
Anyhow, even though some people out there actually do get a new iPhone every year they represent a small minority, and regardless, Apple isn't targeting them. Sure Apple is happy those people exist, but that doesn't mean they're a major target. The few third party stats I've seen on this say that people keep their iPhones around 2-4 years (depending upon the source) but sometimes longer, which is similar to what I've observed anecdotally.
ThomasJL
macrumors 68020
9GB of RAM sounds like the type of so-called "innovation" that Tim Cook would approve of. There is only a little over two more months left of his horrendous reign as Apple CEO, but it looks like before he steps down, he's trying to jam-pack the pipeline with clueless products with extortionate prices.
Which is exactly why they waited so long. That combined with usb c and we’re pretty much out of long overdue basic hardware features.
EugW
macrumors P6
IF YOU KEEP TyPiNg IN UPPERCASE LONG ENOUGH, ONE DAY YOU WILL BE (seen as a) RIGHT (nutter).
The A16 iPad has 6 GB as well.
As for all the people screaming about Apple's new pricing, if you don't like it don't buy it. When they dropped the quad core option from the Mac mini in 2014 I didn't buy one. Problem solved.
Apple's profit margin is supposedly about 40%. 40% of no-sale is nothing. Let Apple's revenue get hammered and when the stock price starts falling the Board of Directors may well decide a lower profit margin is tolerable after all.
An interesting side effect of the RAM crisis is Microsoft just extended support for windows 10 for another year.