20GB used??

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by Michelasso, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Michelasso macrumors 6502

    Michelasso

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Location:
    Treviso, Italy
    #1
    I have seen it first on Xcode and then I downloaded a free app (Disc Space?) from the App Store. I have a dozen apps installed and 20GB are already gone? I understand the OS can take quite some space, but isn't it a bit too much? Is it possible that it's due to the many log files? I always delete the sysdiagnose outputs I generate (Volume Down+Play) but I see quite some logs are still there.

    It really makes me wonder if I didn't make a (huge) mistake not waiting for the 64GB at this point.
     
  2. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    #2
    Hi Michelasso!
    Have you recently watched a film from iTunes? Maybe it is still on the SSD as it downloads temporarily and if there's space, maybe it stays on the SSD for a few days. Also the screensaver in 4K take up quite a bit of space.
    This is exactly why I went for the 64GB as my life with Apple products has until recently been a constant fight for space!!!! (ipHone, MacBook_ now I go for the max storage. My first iPhone was 16GB and I fought with it every day for 4 years! Always having to remove playlists, apps, photos - I never want to do that again :)

    But yes, the pricing is all over the place for the ATV - £20 more for 64GB and only £30 for the inflated price of the old ATV4 which having a price increase is rather vulgar of Apple on old stock.
     
  3. justperry macrumors G3

    justperry

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    #3
    Aren't those screensavers downloaded each and every time, I downloaded them all to one of my Macs, they indeed are massive, and I might even have the non 4k ones.
     
  4. vertical smile, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018

    vertical smile macrumors 68020

    vertical smile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    #4
    I think I can explain this based off of my experience.

    A few months ago, there was a thread saying the 64GB ATV was pointless because you would never be able to fill up a 32GB ATV.

    While I do not have a 32GB ATV, I wanted to test this theory using my 64GB ATV4.

    I already had a lot of apps save on the 64GB, and the "Storage" app I had on there said there was only 15ish GBs left on the disk.

    I then downloaded every free game I could, and I noticed that the available space got smaller and smaller, all the way down to 900MB, but then the system would free space, which I assumed was cached videos, app data, and maybe the aerial screen savers.

    So, I kept on downloading, and every time I would come close to running out of space, the system would free up more space.

    You might think this means that the 32GB would be okay then, and the 64Gb would not be worth it, but I have noticed that after downloading a lot of apps, if I use a lot of different apps in a short period of time, the ATV4 slows down to a crawl.

    I assume this would be the case for a 32GB, just much worse. Actually, I probably have too many apps on my 64GB on the 32GB.

    NOW, all that said, if you are using the 32GB under normal use, and not what I was doing, you will probably be fine. If you have a crap load of apps saved and you notice a slowdown after using a bunch of different ones, then I would delete a few.

    BTW, I don't think that restarts removes the cached data.


    I felt the same way, I had an 8GB on the oringal iPhone, and that didn't seem like too little, but after that I have a 16GB 4s, and then a 16GB 5s, and dealing with storage issues was a constant battle.

    Thinking just like you, I then got a 128GB 6s Plus, and now a 128GB SE and I no longer have storage issues.
     
  5. Rigby macrumors 601

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    Aug 5, 2008
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    San Jose, CA
    #5
    There is nothing to worry about. The ATV4 uses the flash memory opportunistically (and will free up memory as necessary by discarding items you aren't actively using). Unused memory is wasted memory. ;)
     
  6. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 9, 2009
    #6
    Yes around 400-600mb for the 1080p so 4K HDR HEVC so say 10 screensaver at 700MB = 7GB, allow for TVOS (2-3GB), HD film at 5GB cache, 4K HDR DV film 20+GB and apps and even without apps, it so adds up.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2018 ---
    The SE is a lovely iPhone! I can't understand why on the ATV 4K knowing how damn greedy Apple are, why there is only a £20 different OR why they bother making the two. Does seems very silly going for the 32GB one when for £20. Mind you, a friend of mine has done that with the new MacBook Pro. First step into Apple waters and he's bought a lovely 13" MacBook Pro but because the prices are so incredibly high here in the UK & Europe, he's had to go for the 128GB model which is worrying on a mid to long term level.
     
  7. martinm0 macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 27, 2010
    #7
    I had the same issue not finding any 64GB units when they released, so I talked to an Apple support person and they stated that the storage in the ATV is only used for apps and that streaming video is not downloaded to the unit at all. Anything played through iTunes, Netflix, Hulu, Vudu, etc., is just that: streamed.

    I bought the 32GB unit in the end as I did not want to wait, and so far, I'm good (I don't play games on it really).

    That said, I do find it annoying that they don't let you see how much storage is left in the settings. They only tell you how much each app uses, which doesn't really help if we don't know what tvOS is using for space...
     
  8. Rigby, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018

    Rigby macrumors 601

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    San Jose, CA
    #8
    Yes. Apps on tvOS are only allowed a small amount of truly persistent storage (500KB), and the app bundle itself can be at most 4GB (but most are much smaller, originally the limit was 200MB). All other data is only cached or downloaded on demand, and may be discarded by the OS if more room is needed by another app. All tvOS apps are written with these limitations in mind.
    What you saw was probably apps downloading on-demand content. But how realistic is this scenario?
    Why should it?
    iOS is a different kettle of fish since you typically download a lot of stuff persistently on mobile devices since mobile network bandwidth is limited. An ATV, on the other hand, is typically connected via home broadband and the apps are designed to download content on demand.
     
  9. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 9, 2009
    #9
    Some great answers Rigby but I can't help but wonder why Apple are offering 32 and 64 with such a little price difference. Plus the fact that Apple originally on their web page said 'Go for the 64GB if you plan to watch 4K HDR iTunes content.
    My worry was for an iTunes 4K HDR film to be say 25GB in size. I'm presuming that 4K HDR films temporarily download the entire film to the ATV just like HD ones do. Now IF Apple was to offer a slightly better quality, I'm thinking that a 2 hour film will easily hit 25GB in file size (Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos sound etc).
    I know that when I watch an iTunes film streaming on my iPhone if I run out of available space, the film basically stops and that's it. I'd be upset if a 4K iTunes film does that in a year or so.
    For £20, or 10% extra, it seems crazy to not go with max storage/performance.
     
  10. vertical smile macrumors 68020

    vertical smile

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    #10
    The scenario of using a lot of apps in a short period of time? Very realistic, at least for me. It is not uncommon for me to jump around and use 10-20 or more apps within a half hour or less.

    I still notice the slowdowns, but it is not as bad as it once was like the first week after downloading a crap load of content. Other symptoms include unresponsiveness, app crashes, and OS crashes. I assume this would be worse if it was a 32GB model, but I don't know for sure.

    Again, I am not saying that if you have a 32GB, you will be screwed, and you will notice problems due to it.

    The 64GB is not that much more money. Unless I was going to get a really good deal on the 32GB model, I would just spend the extra amount and get the 64GB one.

    Since it is temporary, I was hoping that the cache would empty when restarting. I made that comment for anyone that was thinking that a restart might empty the cache.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2018 ---
    I am not sure if the Apple support person is correct about this.

    I noticed that after using iTunes to stream a movie, that the storage used increases on my ATV. I think this is also true for the other streaming movie apps. Maybe I will test this tonight.
     
  11. Rigby macrumors 601

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    San Jose, CA
    #11
    That should not be a problem. You'd probably have to switch between that many in a few minutes to overwhelm the on-demand downloading. And most apps don't use much storage anyway.
    I have the 32GB model and have never seen anything like this.
    Emptying a cache when it's not needed doesn't make much sense (rather it'll potentially delay things if/when the content is needed again).
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2018 ---
    I don't remember them ever having that on their web page. I think the fact that Apple obviously manufactures so few of the 64GB models speaks volumes.
    I don't see why buffering the entire movie (or even a large part of it) would be required for playback. I obviously don't have access to the AVKit source code, but I'd be very surprised if they didn't have a flexible buffering system that adapts to the available storage, network speed and other things.
     
  12. BODYBUILDERPAUL macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    --- Post Merged, Jan 14, 2018 ---
    I don't remember them ever having that on their web page. I think the fact that Apple obviously manufactures so few of the 64GB models speaks volumes.
    I don't see why buffering the entire movie (or even a large part of it) would be required for playback. I obviously don't have access to the AVKit source code, but I'd be very surprised if they didn't have a flexible buffering system that adapts to the available storage, network speed and other things.[/QUOTE]

    Most definitely written on the ATV 4K page under 'Which option should I go for?' Strangely, it got edited 2 weeks later.

    Definitely seems to download the entire film Mr Rigby. The only way to get rid of it on my iPhone is to restart the device & then it clears it. Maybe ATV 4K is different but it certainly used to operate in the same way.

    The fact that ATV 64GB is never is stock is either 1. It sells out instantly OR 2. Apple is so greedy that they realise they are not making enough profit on it and are limiting its production as they realise that it must never go above the 199 price bracket. I love some of Apple but my brain, heart and soul along with conscience tells me that they are the greediest company that has ever existed in the history of the world and incredibly arrogant with pricing.
     
  13. martinm0 macrumors 6502a

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    Feb 27, 2010
    #13
    Very possible. I almost added a "take with grain of salt" warning initially lol. That all said, I pretty much only use streaming services and I have never had an issue getting the best quality out of the device (at least to my eyes). I have the Oppo UDP-203 and find the video quality nearly identical in my testing. For the $20 saved on my end (and no wait), the 32GB version has been perfectly adept in all my usage scenarios.
     
  14. niteflyr macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    #14
    If you watch a downloaded iTunes movie on the ATV via the computers app and Home Sharing, you can actually see the entire movie buffering ahead into memory along the time line at the bottom of the screen.(If there is available memory) I would assume Movies app and other Apple apps, act similarly.
     
  15. Rigby, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018

    Rigby macrumors 601

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    San Jose, CA
    #15
    Even if it does download the entire movie when enough memory is available, that doesn't mean it's unable to stream if there isn't. More than likely it buffers opportunistically, i.e. it uses the memory if enough is available, but simply buffers less if there isn't.

    BTW, the ATV4K
    I think the more likely explanation is that they looked at how the previous ATV4/64GB model sold and adjusted the production numbers accordingly. Personally, after two years of using two ATV4/32GB I still haven't encountered a single situation where I would have wanted more. I really can't imagine why anyone would, unless perhaps you game a lot. It's a streaming box, not a storage device.

    BTW, Fry's offers the ATV4K/32GB for $159 almost every week, and there is also the DirectTV offer for $140. The 64GB is never in stock and I haven't seen it discounted yet, so in practice the price difference is more like $40-50.
     
  16. Michelasso thread starter macrumors 6502

    Michelasso

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Location:
    Treviso, Italy
    #16
    Well, just to say that I am downloading the screensaver daily (and I didn't think about them consuming internal memory indeed. My fault. Hopefully that's where most space has gone!).

    Then I have Kodi installed (but tvOS says that only 340MB are used by it). With iTunes I watch only the trailers. Then I have Infuse, Amazon and Netflix, but as it has been pointed out everything should be just streamed.

    Then I didn't consider that tvOS will optimise the cached space. I have just got scared that with few apps installed I had already 2/3 of flash memory used! So yeah, I should be fine.

    Thanks everyone for clearing things up!
     

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