27" iMac is dead....again.

[fixerman]

AMSYS called to say they will collect the iMac tomorrow and give it top priority. They tried their usual "We cannot give you a time when the courier will call" but I insisted that I cannot wait in all day waiting for the courier. They eventually agreed to call before 14.00. I think it's ridiculous in this day and age that collection and delivery times cannot be more specific.

The iMac was collected as arranged. Got a call from Amsys today advising me that the hard drive on the iMac has failed and will have to be replaced. It will be returned next Wednesday!

So far, the video card, a logic board and now the hard drive will have been replaced to cure this problem.

 

[WilliamG]

The iMac was collected as arranged. Got a call from Amsys today advising me that the hard drive on the iMac has failed and will have to be replaced. It will be returned next Wednesday!

So far, the video card, a logic board and now the hard drive will have been replaced to cure this problem.

I'm really not sure what you want us to say at this point... You got unlucky, whether through fault of Amsys or fault of the computer itself. Either way, it stinks.

That said, if you have any further issues with your computer, call AppleCare and they'll take care of it, no doubt. Three failed repairs warrants a system replacement.

----------

.....and this is why i'm not buying an iMac. I have 4 2010 27" iMacs with bad hard drives or mobo problems in my office. We ordered 50+ of the late 2012 27" iMacs, can't wait till they start having problems. At least the 2010's are easy to take apart.

I personally wouldn't recommend an iMac to anyone. I hope your repair center makes this right and you get a few more years out of it but i would save for a Mac Pro if you really need the power or maybe go with a Mac Mini. Just my opinion.

That's just not sound logic AT ALL. First, you're going to see more people complain that praise on the boards. Most people, I guarantee it, have no issues with their iMacs. Because if they did, it wouldn't be profitable for Apple to continue selling them.

Second, it's actually easier to take apart a 2012 than a 2009-2011. I can get to the internals of a 2012 iMac in about 60 seconds. Use a pick around the outside, and wham - you're in. Sure, you need to replace the tape around the inside, but for ME it's a much simpler job. And not having to worry about dust behind the glass or on the LCD makes life a lot easier.

Anyway, I don't think it's fair to bag on 2012 iMacs when most people are enjoying them. There are failures in any parts line, in any product. The iMac is no different.

 

[Mr Rabbit]

I'm in London and the agent is. http://www.amsys.co.uk/

Top notch folks, well respected in the IT community. I would expect quality work from them.

The problem Jim is that I have limited mobility and the 27" iMac is a big heavy old piece of kit. I'm surprised that Apple don't provide an "on site" repair service.

Apple DOES provide on-site service to AppleCare customers. They may not offer it up initially but should provide the service if you mention that you'd prefer it.

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD007ZM/A/applecare-protection-plan-imac

Under the "One stop for technical support" section

Onsite repair: Request that a technician come to your work site

Amsys would likely be dispatched for the onsite repair though as Apple/Care doesn't employ onsite technicians directly, instead relying on Apple Authorized Service Providers (AASP) to send ACMT technicians out for repairs.

With that said, you might still call to register your feelings with AppleCare. Luckily this doesn't sound like a business critical machine that is costing you hundreds/thousands by being out of commission for days at a time.

 

[HenryDJP]

I paid top dollar to Apple for a top of the range product. I also paid for AppleCare to provide me with extra protection in the event of problems with the product. I do not have a contract with Amsys. It is up to Apple to honour their obligations to me as a consumer. How they do this reflects on Apple themselves. If they choose a service partner that is substandard that makes Apple substandard. That is why I refuse to get into dealing directly with Amsys. To do so would result in Apple getting off the hook.

I just did a search on this forum on Amsys and I am not alone.

No no no, wrong attitude. Amsys is a repair facility who has a contract with Apple. They are an authorized repair facility that has been properly trained by Apple. When they do repairs for Apple's customers Amsys gets paid. I have read numerous times about 3rd party repair facilities doing half-a$$ed jobs because they know they will get paid anyway.
How is it that you came in for a problem with your screen going white/blank and then the repair facility tells you the video card is bad, they "repair" it by replacing the card and still the same problem after you get it home? Then Amsys tells you the HDD is failing? Come on! Sounds like to me they never did a proper diagnostic.

You HAVE to place blame on who does the repair. Sounds like you just want to blame Apple because they are Big Brother, rather than blaming the actually facility who did the work, which is what you're suppose to do. Authorized repair facilities don't just call the manufacturer and tell them what's happening and get told what to do, the repair facility is suppose to do a full diagnostic and figure out the real problem.
For Amsys to come back and tell you now the HDD is failing shows that they did not do a proper diagnostic in the first place and they are to blame.

Also, you mentioned that you did a search here on MR about Amsys and you are not alone. Okay, well that facility is screwing up, not the manufacturer. Once again, keep in mind, it's very possible that Amsys was/is doing a half-a$$ed job just to get you out of their hair and so they can quickly get paid. Guess what? They are getting paid again because they "found" more things wrong with your Mac that they will have to repair. Please use logic. I know when it's time to blame Apple, I've had my own issues with them but that's when I've had their actual stores repair my products. That's when it's time to blame them directly.

For the record, I have a late 2011 27" iMac and it's been flawless. Sadly another poster here said they also have the same machine for 2 years without problems but now you've scared them. It would be nice if you were to post the entire outcome of the situation rather than the step by step news updates because you still don't know who's at fault or what caused the issue. If you got something repaired by Apple or a 3rd party authorized service center and it came back defective then simply send it back and when all is said done then it would be fair come here and post of the entire experience. I don't allow forum threads like yours to scare me like this but you have made others feel uneasy about iMacs when you don't know for sure if the repair facility screwed up or if the machine is just a lemon.

You're being way too nice here protecting the repair facility and blaming Apple instead. Remember Amsys gets paid every single time they find something else wrong. GPU, Logic Board and now HDD? Hmm.

That being said, I hope your issue gets resolved, and please let us know the end result, after it's up and running again or possibly a replacement? But yes, you should definitely get Apple Customer Relations involved about it.

 

[DianeK]

timcook@apple.com

Just tried sending Tim Cook an email at this address and it was bounced back with the error message being "invalid address". So much for that avenue.

 

[Mr Rabbit]

Just tried sending Tim Cook an email at this address and it was bounced back with the error message being "invalid address". So much for that avenue.

tcook@apple.com

 

[firedept]

Just tried sending Tim Cook an email at this address and it was bounced back with the error message being "invalid address". So much for that avenue.

Sorry about that. Mr Rabbit has it correct. Thanks Mr Rabbit!

Here is the link to the thread I started when I was having problems with my iMac. Maybe it will help you in your approach to getting things solved.

 

[DianeK]

Sorry about that. Mr Rabbit has it correct. Thanks Mr Rabbit!

Here is the link to the thread I started when I was having problems with my iMac. Maybe it will help you in your approach to getting things solved.

Thank you to you and Mr. Rabbit. I had already stumbled upon the correct email address before coming back here and had fired off my email successfully. My computer went in for repair shortly after that. My service provider heard back from Apple and they want me to go through with the hard drive and logic board replacement before considering me for a new computer so I will go through with this.

Wow, typing this reply on my iPad is really making me miss my iMac. Typing on an iPad is a PITA!

 

[fixerman]

Thank you to you and Mr. Rabbit. I had already stumbled upon the correct email address before coming back here and had fired off my email successfully. My computer went in for repair shortly after that. My service provider heard back from Apple and they want me to go through with the hard drive and logic board replacement before considering me for a new computer so I will go through with this.

Wow, typing this reply on my iPad is really making me miss my iMac. Typing on an iPad is a PITA!

I think it's remarkable that your experience mirrors mine exactly. Screen issue followed by graphics card, logic board and now hard drive replacement. Mine is due to be returned on Wednesday. I am not angling for a new computer, I just want mine to work.

Good luck with yours!

I am also typing the on my ipad!

 

[firedept]

Thank you to you and Mr. Rabbit. I had already stumbled upon the correct email address before coming back here and had fired off my email successfully. My computer went in for repair shortly after that. My service provider heard back from Apple and they want me to go through with the hard drive and logic board replacement before considering me for a new computer so I will go through with this.

Wow, typing this reply on my iPad is really making me miss my iMac. Typing on an iPad is a PITA!

I think it's remarkable that your experience mirrors mine exactly. Screen issue followed by graphics card, logic board and now hard drive replacement. Mine is due to be returned on Wednesday. I am not angling for a new computer, I just want mine to work.

Good luck with yours!

I am also typing the on my ipad!

Feel for you both having to work exclusively from an iPad. Yes, my concerns were mostly about how many times my machine was being opened and closed for repairs. I know it was being done by Apple employee's and they were trying their best to fix it for me. At no point did I blame them, but with it opened so much, something was bound to get broken.

My iMac was just one of those stubborn ones. It happens. But Apple did right by it and replaced mine with a new iMac. I have had my new iMac for several months and not one single issue. It is the complete opposite of the old one.

Good luck to both of you in getting it solved. I am one of the ones that can attest to Apple doing it right.

 

[DianeK]

Feel for you both having to work exclusively from an iPad. Yes, my concerns were mostly about how many times my machine was being opened and closed for repairs.

I hope you feel honored that I am laboring on an iPad to reply to you
Apple had shipped the logic board to the service provider so when they called yesterday they had both the hard drive and the logic board in hand so both can be done in a single reopening of my computer. And it certainly sounds like if there are any further issues after this I am likely to get a new computer. I am rather unhappy though that Apple sent out a Hitachi drive to replace my defective Seagate. My understanding is that even with the same specs Hitachi's are slower than Seagate or WD. But apparently under AppleCare I don't have a say in what replacement part Apple chooses to use. Who knows, maybe they are avoiding using a Seagate because of known issues but I suspect it's more an issue of what happens to be in stock at the time.
Thanks for your well wishes and I will post back after the computer comes home to update.

 

[firedept]

I hope you feel honored that I am laboring on an iPad to reply to you
Apple had shipped the logic board to the service provider so when they called yesterday they had both the hard drive and the logic board in hand so both can be done in a single reopening of my computer. And it certainly sounds like if there are any further issues after this I am likely to get a new computer. I am rather unhappy though that Apple sent out a Hitachi drive to replace my defective Seagate. My understanding is that even with the same specs Hitachi's are slower than Seagate or WD. But apparently under AppleCare I don't have a say in what replacement part Apple chooses to use. Who knows, maybe they are avoiding using a Seagate because of known issues but I suspect it's more an issue of what happens to be in stock at the time.
Thanks for your well wishes and I will post back after the computer comes home to update.

Very honored!

Hitachi is a good reliable drive. That is the drive I use for my external backups on both my iMacs and iBook. I have had one for 7 years, one for 6, one for 2 years and have never had any problems with them. Not sure if they are slower as I never used them as a main drive. They are ultra quiet and have been extremely reliable though. I would recommend them. I'll watch for your post when you get you machine back.

 

[Larry-K]

I've never known an iMac to fail before. I'm not saying you are lying or anything but it's a very rare event. Macs general just work for decades without issues that's why they are the best computers on the market.

We keep around a dozen iMacs in the office and we've had four fail since 2009, usually it's a crappy hard drive Apple threw in.

On the other hand we've never had a MacPro fail, we just finally get tired of using the old ones. I do throw out the hard drives and memory that come with them and replace it with my favorites though.

----------

I hope you feel honored that I am laboring on an iPad to reply to you
Apple had shipped the logic board to the service provider so when they called yesterday they had both the hard drive and the logic board in hand so both can be done in a single reopening of my computer. And it certainly sounds like if there are any further issues after this I am likely to get a new computer. I am rather unhappy though that Apple sent out a Hitachi drive to replace my defective Seagate. My understanding is that even with the same specs Hitachi's are slower than Seagate or WD. But apparently under AppleCare I don't have a say in what replacement part Apple chooses to use. Who knows, maybe they are avoiding using a Seagate because of known issues but I suspect it's more an issue of what happens to be in stock at the time.
Thanks for your well wishes and I will post back after the computer comes home to update.

I use Hitachis for everything that isn't an SSD and I doubt you'd ever notice any performance issues.

As for Seagates, nothing fails faster. We've had three recalled and now there's another to ship off. Don't know why they bother to make drives really.

 

[DianeK]

I use Hitachis for everything that isn't an SSD and I doubt you'd ever notice any performance issues.

As for Seagates, nothing fails faster. We've had three recalled and now there's another to ship off. Don't know why they bother to make drives really.

Ok. I'm starting to feel much better about getting a Hitachi replacement

 

[dumastudetto]

We keep around a dozen iMacs in the office and we've had four fail since 2009, usually it's a crappy hard drive Apple threw in.

Apple doesn't make the hard drives so it's not their fault. Feel free to blame whoever manufactured the drive though.

On the other hand we've never had a MacPro fail, we just finally get tired of using the old ones. I do throw out the hard drives and memory that come with them and replace it with my favorites though.

Yep Mac Pros are absolute workhorses that run and run and run forever. They are expensive but the longevity is amazing and market-leading.

 

[Larry-K]

Apple doesn't make the hard drives so it's not their fault. Feel free to blame whoever manufactured the drive though.

The problem is they've had Seagate recalls for years now, in almost every model.

It's especially problematic in iMacs when they make it such a pain to remove them.

Besides our iMacs, my friends MacBook Pro's Seagate Drive failed after three months (another recall). There aren't that many hard drive manufacturers left, but Apple could certainly pick someone else.

Not blaming Apple is like getting food poisoning at a restaurant that consistently gets their fish next to a sewer outfall.

 

[DianeK]

The problem is they've had Seagate recalls for years now, in almost every model.
Not blaming Apple is like getting food poisoning at a restaurant that consistently gets their fish next to a sewer outfall.

Good point!

 

[Maxx Power]

Apple doesn't make the hard drives so it's not their fault. Feel free to blame whoever manufactured the drive though.



Yep Mac Pros are absolute workhorses that run and run and run forever. They are expensive but the longevity is amazing and market-leading.

The application environment of the hard drives (or anything else for that matter) is just as important as the quality of the hard drives themselves. Hard drives, according to numerous studies (the Google study cited here, but there are also other ones, like the Russian study, and one additional study that breaks down the brands and types of failures associated with them), temperature is correlated with failure. At the 3 and 4 year mark, temperatures at 35 degrees Celsius and above have disproportionately large failure rates (annualized failure rates of 12% - 15%), about 2 to 3 times that of cooler running drives of this age.

I would think that temperature is the main culprit here, in that it is the real difference between the operating environment of the Mac Pros and the iMacs when the same HDDs are used.

PS. I do remember reading from the Russian study (I think), that Seagates drives are really not fond of higher temperatures and the read head deteriorates rapidly at those temperatures. For the WD consumer drives (except the Black series) there is something about the motor spindle on larger capacity drives... All of the manufacturers had their quirks with their HDD designs, I just can't remember all of it.

 

[DianeK]

Very honored!

Hitachi is a good reliable drive. That is the drive I use for my external backups on both my iMacs and iBook. I have had one for 7 years, one for 6, one for 2 years and have never had any problems with them. Not sure if they are slower as I never used them as a main drive. They are ultra quiet and have been extremely reliable though. I would recommend them. I'll watch for your post when you get you machine back.

Computer is home and so far so good. The screen issue appears resolved. When I saw the cost of the repair being charged to AppleCare it wasn't a whole lot less than a new computer. But if this computer runs like she did before all the problems started then so be it.

A bit off topic but can anyone explain why the dock icon for Photoshop CS5 looks like this after re-install? Photoshop appears to be working just fine but the dock icon is somewhat disconcerting. Hoping someone here might have an idea because the thought of dealing with Adobe support is going to keep me up tonight
Diane

 

[DianeK]

I think I fixed it. Just dragged the weird one off the dock into a puff of smoke and dragged the proper looking icon from Finder to the dock.
Diane

 

[Larry-K]

I've never known an iMac to fail before. I'm not saying you are lying or anything but it's a very rare event. Macs general just work for decades without issues that's why they are the best computers on the market.

Well, once upon a time Apple wasn't obsessed with making everything thinner for no functional reason.

Number one killer of electronics stuff? Heat!

I have lots of Macs more than a decade old that I'm pretty sure would boot in a second if I wanted them to, but I also have a few more recent ones around here that died prematurely, and weren't worth resurrecting.

The best thing about MacPros? Lots of airflow! That may be coming to an end soon.

 

[dumastudetto]

Well, once upon a time Apple wasn't obsessed with making everything thinner for no functional reason.

Number one killer of electronics stuff? Heat!

I have lots of Macs more than a decade old that I'm pretty sure would boot in a second if I wanted them to, but I also have a few more recent ones around here that died prematurely, and weren't worth resurrecting.

The best thing about MacPros? Lots of airflow! That may be coming to an end soon.

I honestly haven't seen any evidence that suggests older macs are more reliable than the new ultrathin models. On the contrary, I've seen evidence that suggests the newer models are more reliable than ever before with non-moving part drives, no optical drive, and precision engineering.

I think it's just plan wrong to suggest Apple's enviable product design leads to reduced product life cycles.

 

[HenryDJP]

Well, once upon a time Apple wasn't obsessed with making everything thinner for no functional reason.

Number one killer of electronics stuff? Heat!

I have lots of Macs more than a decade old that I'm pretty sure would boot in a second if I wanted them to, but I also have a few more recent ones around here that died prematurely, and weren't worth resurrecting.

The best thing about MacPros? Lots of airflow! That may be coming to an end soon.

I have to agree with this. Sadly over the past recent years I've had issues with seemingly non-repairable hinges on my Macbook Pro and Macbook Airs along with screens developing bad pixels. Screen issues with my aluminum 24" and 27" iMacs along with logic board issues in my 27" model.

My first iMac was the 15" Sunflower. Not only a beauty to look at (even with today's tech standards) but built very well. Had it for 6 years with zero problems with constant use, I mean ZERO. Sold it to my best friend and he used it for 2 more years. Finally the hard drive failed. Easily replaced it. After 8 years it only needed a hard drive replacement. Still runs today, he's had it 10 years now.
My PowerMac G5 dual had zero issues of hard use. My iBook's logic board finally died after 5 years of ownership and it's been dropped multiple times and the LCD never broke. My 17" Powerbook only ended up with a slightly loose hinge over years of ownership. Apple fixed it during the warranty time. Never had a single screen problem, logic board issue, hard drive issue or anything. Ran perfectly. I am no common websurfer so my Macs get heavy use. Can't remember if they were made in the USA but I'm pretty sure they weren't made in China at the time.

 

[Larry-K]

I honestly haven't seen any evidence that suggests older macs are more reliable than the new ultrathin models. On the contrary, I've seen evidence that suggests the newer models are more reliable than ever before with non-moving part drives, no optical drive, and precision engineering.

I think it's just plan wrong to suggest Apple's enviable product design leads to reduced product life cycles.

Wow, you have been drinking the Kool-Aid haven't you?

"Precision Engineering" is a relative term, but engineering in the service of marketing gimmicks (like making your computer a quarter inch thinner, a feature which, in most cases, only the installer will see, and then for just a moment) is misguided if it sacrifices function, reliability and serviceability. Anything that puts you data at risk needlessly is a bad idea.

How many moving parts do you think are in a Mac now versus a decade ago? Do you think those old PowerMacs had rods and pistons? And how many catastrophic optical drive failures have you seen?

Fortunately I use Mac Pros for everything except my checkbook, any indication that the new one has heating issues means it's Windows time.

 

[DianeK]

Wow, you have been drinking the Kool-Aid haven't you?

"Precision Engineering" is a relative term, but engineering in the service of marketing gimmicks (like making your computer a quarter inch thinner, a feature which, in most cases, only the installer will see, and then for just a moment) is misguided if it sacrifices function, reliability and serviceability. Anything that puts you data at risk needlessly is a bad idea.

How many moving parts do you think are in a Mac now versus a decade ago? Do you think those old PowerMacs had rods and pistons? And how many catastrophic optical drive failures have you seen?

Fortunately I use Mac Pros for everything except my checkbook, any indication that the new one has heating issues means it's Windows time.

+1
Apple's obsession with form over function has just gone too far.