3D CSS Effects in Snow Leopard Safari, And More on Future of Video and Flash?

[macUser2007]

....The fact is that the internet is permeated with Flash, whether it SHOULD be or not. So knowing that a huge number of sites use Flash, my alternatives are to fight the whole of the internet, one forum at a time, or...install a plug-in and deal with it. For me, the choice is easy. Apple has chosen option A, and I honestly hope they win. The problem is that until a winner is selected, there are millions of iPhone users, myself included, who are incapable of viewing content on MOST websites.

Finally, some sanity....

I should also point out, that if Flash is replaced for video in a few years, it will not be Apple that benefits the most, but Microsoft, with its Silverlight. So, be careful what you wish for.

Anyway, some here seem willing to cut off their nose, to spite their face: they'd rather their iPhone is left as the only mobile platform without support for one of the most common formats on the web.

BTW, there are a number of sources mentioning "80%" for the portion of web video viewed, and over 95% for Flash Player penetration. Here is just one source example:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/technology/20adobe.html?_r=1

 

[Cerebrus' Maw]

Good point...

I actually think PHP/SQL sites are the best (plain ones with no fancy jazz). When I look at such graphics I think... what if I'm not at home using my fibre optic connection?

What if I'm my mum/dad?

What if I'm in a different country where broadband simply isn't as fast...

I'm a BIG fan of low-bandwidth sites... making this standard would only make more high-bandwidth sites that look cool, but take a year to load. Just like flash! Christ... Flash is responsible for SO MANY sites that just don't load.

An example for Aussies (like me although I live in Japan) is Bigpond TV... all flash with Windows Media video's. This site hosts lots of sports broadcasts + Australian TV stuff (the content is very useful while living abroad, but the delivery can drop dead.) Video's just don't play!!! I have Flip4Mac and Flash... all up to date, and video's simply don't play. So I thought... oh... must just be because I'm using a Mac. NOPE... cracked open VMWare and got the same issues with XP and Vista. Opera helps load things a bit better (no idea why.)

So... I don't like big bandwidth hungry sites. I'd much prefer people did everything using PHP, compressed their graphics so that they're insanely small, and rather than using Flash for video's just offered an RSS feed showing the latest video's (or something like that!) Why use flash in conjunction with movies when you don't have to?

We are a dying breed, my friend. A dying breed.

As a PHP/web design/ site back-end/ programmer, I enjoy slick, well maintained sites that, above all else, offer good navigation, and are fully complete.

So many sites nowadays are just.... gaudy.

 

[Cubert]

I apologize if this has been answered already but I think the article is misleading. I am running Leopard with the very latest WebKit build and the site doesn't work for me. Is that sentence in the article poorly written and you need both Snow Leopard and the latest version of WebKit or the version of Safari that comes with SL build 402?

Or, is it a PPC vs. Intel thing. I'm running a G4 PowerBook - but it is one that is officially supported for Leopard. Anyone else having this problem?

 

[Auzburner]

That genuinely looks amazing. I want.

 

[Auzburner]

I apologize if this has been answered already but I think the article is misleading. I am running Leopard with the very latest WebKit build and the site doesn't work for me. Is that sentence in the article poorly written and you need both Snow Leopard and the latest version of WebKit or the version of Safari that comes with SL build 402?

Or, is it a PPC vs. Intel thing. I'm running a G4 PowerBook - but it is one that is officially supported for Leopard. Anyone else having this problem?

It needs to be Snow Leopard. Sorry.

 

[MattInOz]

H.264 might have more hardware support but Safari and Chrome's market share on the desktop is tiny. According to Net Applications, if you added Chrome and Safari's market share and multiplied by 4, Firefox would still have a bigger share of users.

Now if IE were to support H.264 (not for another 3-4 years if their previous record is anything to go by), Mozilla would probably have to concede defeat and find some way of supporting H.264 that fits in with their ethos. But it's doubtful anything will happen before then, even when you factor in the iPhone's popularity on the mobile side.

Personally I think Google is taking the right approach here - support both and let content creators decide what they want to use.

Isn't H.264 supported by not just hardware but also most media transport systems from Blu-ray disks to broadcast Digital TV?

 

[str1f3]

I agree. Being a better technology SHOULD warrant its widespread use. And every man, woman, and child SHOULD have a roof over their head and food on their table. But as we all know, there's often a difference between what SHOULD be and what really is.

The fact is that the internet is permeated with Flash, whether it SHOULD be or not. So knowing that a huge number of sites use Flash, my alternatives are to fight the whole of the internet, one forum at a time, or...install a plug-in and deal with it. For me, the choice is easy. Apple has chosen option A, and I honestly hope they win. The problem is that until a winner is selected, there are millions of iPhone users, myself included, who are incapable of viewing content on MOST websites.

C'mon. Solving world peace and stopping global famine is not on the same level as a video plugin. One is a 7 year old problem. The other hasn't been figured out since the beginning of humankind. For you the choice is easy. It's to do nothing but accept status quo even when you are in the midst of the status quo changing.

Here's the thing. Don't do anything and don't care. For your desktop, you won't notice the difference. You're not particularly interested in your battery life, instability, memory/processor usage, how fast a webpage loads, how loud you fan spins,etc.. You just want to watch your videos. When H.264 becomes the standard you won't really give a damn either way.

As for your phone, if Flash is that important to you, don't get an iPhone. The iPhone has a minute chance of supporting Flash. Look at what they've been doing. They're supporting the newest web standards in HTML5 & CSS 3, using http live streaming, and heavily supporting h.264. In every way they are working against Flash. This isn't the kind of battle where you give up after a year. If Apple is doing this, it means they are in it for the long haul. As for others who think that this is just another copy & paste, they are blind. Apple has been very honest in saying that they had priorities on their list and it wasn't very high. Jobs has been blunt about Flash.

Flash has been crap for OSX and it could only be worse on the iPhone if you're using any measure of logic since it is using a stripped down OSX.

 

[str1f3]

Isn't H.264 supported by not just hardware but also most media transport systems from Blu-ray disks to broadcast Digital TV?

Yes and to the comment you replied to IE8 should already support H.264. Most Windows users already have Quicktime and iTunes which supports it. Not only that, Windows already licenses it. It supports H.264 in XBOX and, I believe, Windows Media Player. The problem with IE is that it doesn't support HTML5 & CSS3 because they're too busy trying to shove Silverlight down our throats.

 

[David G.]

It needs to be Snow Leopard. Sorry.

No.

I "only" have Leopard as my OS but do have the latest WebKit nightly. It does work for me, just like in the video.

I tried it on my 2.4 GHz WhiteBook with 4 GB of RAM with the latest webkit nightly build and the Quartz Debug Frame Meter reported that I was getting around 55-60 fps while moving about. ...

 

[ewoods]

Here's the thing. Don't do anything and don't care. For your desktop, you won't notice the difference. You're not particularly interested in your battery life, instability, memory/processor usage, how fast a webpage loads, how loud you fan spins,etc.. You just want to watch your videos. When H.264 becomes the standard you won't really give a damn either way.

You've just described perfectly the group that I'm advocating for: the typical user, the norm, the majority. MOST people don't care. Most people aren't particularly interested in the inner-workings of their computer. Most people just want to watch their videos, and if the switch happens, most people won't really give a damn either way.

What I'm arguing, and have been arguing, is that right now, in our current state, Flash needs to be available. It's too widely used to simply ignore. Imagine if other aspects of life took Apple's approach to this. Imagine if some governing body said, "You know what? Cars are destroying our environment. So until we have a solution to this problem, cars are henseforth banned. Nobody is allowed to use their car until an alternative can be found." Too many people use Flash for Apple to simply say, "No Flash for you! Shut up and wait until we figure this out!"

 

[Boneoh]

The problem with IE is that it doesn't support HTML5 & CSS3 because they're too busy trying to shove Silverlight down our throats.

+1

I have yet to accept the nagging prompt to install Silverlight. I now call it Silverfish! MS can keep it. Just what we need, a proprietary solution from MS.

 

[AidenShaw]

Why is anyone voting "yes" for Safari implementing a non-standard proprietary extension?

I thought that Internet Explorer has been demonized here for non-standard behaviour - yet people think that it's good for Safari?

The mind boggles...

 

[DAMNiatx]

just test it in my macbook pro

Youtube
http://yit.me/wm3f76

 

[aristotle]

This is not new at all! just install Cooliris plug-in http://www.cooliris.com/ and you can reproduce the video ?!?

I don't see it as aa demo of new features?! just a plain rip off.

I have Cooliris and I think it is great but learn to read. Read the damn article before commenting or you will look like a fool like right now.

This is a technical demo using only CSS 3 Animations. You could do something that does not look like Cooliris with this technology but the guy who created the demo decided to make a demo look like this. Do you understand that this demo is basically an advanced collection of HTML, Cascading Style Sheets and possibly some javascript?

Implementing CSS animations does not mean that Cooliris is being ripped off just because you can copy Cooliris with just some CSS code in a webpage.

 

[aristotle]

Why is anyone voting "yes" for Safari implementing a non-standard proprietary extension?

I thought that Internet Explorer has been demonized here for non-standard behaviour - yet people think that it's good for Safari?

The mind boggles...

The mind boggles that you feel the need to comment without reading the article. This is a proposed extension to CSS3 which is still in the process of becoming a standard at some point in the future. People are supporting having this added to the CSS3 standard.

 

[pito189]

submitted way to late, sweet sweet wireless internet

 

[str1f3]

You've just described perfectly the group that I'm advocating for: the typical user, the norm, the majority. MOST people don't care. Most people aren't particularly interested in the inner-workings of their computer. Most people just want to watch their videos, and if the switch happens, most people won't really give a damn either way.

What I'm arguing, and have been arguing, is that right now, in our current state, Flash needs to be available. It's too widely used to simply ignore. Imagine if other aspects of life took Apple's approach to this. Imagine if some governing body said, "You know what? Cars are destroying our environment. So until we have a solution to this problem, cars are henseforth banned. Nobody is allowed to use their car until an alternative can be found." Too many people use Flash for Apple to simply say, "No Flash for you! Shut up and wait until we figure this out!"

That's fine. But Apple already knows what the effect of Flash for the iPhone. Apple isn't allowing Flash on the iPhone because they hate Adobe. Even though they do. If they believe that something will adversely affect their product ,they won't allow it. People have been complaining about battery life since the 3G and App Store. Using Flash will kill it incredibly fast and make Safari totally unstable. Just going to a Flash site sucks a battery down as if you were watching a movie.

I would like to watch Hulu on my iPhone as much you. But if that means that I lose a ton of battery life on my phone (which is still the main function) then I can live without. Especially is there is something better on the horizon.

Remember it is not only Apple who is not allowing it. RIM is also not allowing. The two companies who arguably make the best smartphones are not allowing it. Both of these companies are extremely battery concious. RIM has it's Blackberry Servers and Apple made sure to first offer the Push Notification System before they allowed multitasking on the iPhone. Even with multitasking (which is more important) they cited battery life as their main concern.

 

[Bubba Satori]

It will never happen - flash needs to die.

Why, because Apple doesn't like it ?

I avoid flash sites but that might be just me.

Ya think ?

 

[Bakey]

No offense buddy, but get a clue.

Couldn't agree more! How many times does the subject of Flash need to be discussed?

There's another more prominent reason as to why Apple wish to keep Flash at bay, and that's the App Store.

Not a huge revelation, but an obvious reason all the same - hello Flash, goodbye revenue!

Simples...

 

[Colrath]

Why is anyone voting "yes" for Safari implementing a non-standard proprietary extension?

I thought that Internet Explorer has been demonized here for non-standard behaviour - yet people think that it's good for Safari?

The mind boggles...

Who said anything about non-standard proprietary extensions? Since when is CSS proprietary?

 

[ipoppy]

In case anyone is wondering, the music is by Ratatat ('Track 01' off of '9 Beats'). And it f***ing rocks.

You have answered my question before I asked

 

[ryrock77]

mac OS needs to run flash like windows

I make my living making flash website, animation and commercial videos. I work on a Mac and PC. My PC out works my Mac hands down. Why after all these years can't Mac OS run flash as well as a PC?

That's why every Mac person says that my Mac Book can't run flash well. Do PC users feel the same way? NO they don't.

I can design and build websites with out flash but my clients want what flash can do.

 

[dragossh]

The photoshop-like interface has made creating with flash a breeze. Is there an application available that has a GUI for CSS3 (or anything)? As I said before, I haven't done much research on it because with Flash, I haven't had a need for it.

You can always try iWeb, Dreamweaver or check out W3C’s pages on HTML and CSS. They are pretty easy to learn and you don’t really need an IDE — just a text editor and you’re rocking.

I feel Flash has a huge following because anybody can do it. You could hire your buddy down the street to make a Flash advertisement. What is Apple doing to push their desired format?

Thanks for your insight.

Apple doesn’t have to do anything. They are proposing this as a standard, Google Wave is coming this year and makes use of HTML5 and everyone except Microsoft pushes for HTML5 and open standards.

I make my living making flash website, animation and commercial videos. I work on a Mac and PC. My PC out works my Mac hands down. Why after all these years can't Mac OS run flash as well as a PC?

That is Adobe’s problem. They seem to be incompetent at making Flash run well on anything but Windows.

 

[ryrock77]

That is Adobe’s problem. They seem to be incompetent at making Flash run well on anything but Windows.

No it's not Adobes problem. It's Apples problem. They are running the same cpu's now and your Mac Book can't keep up. Grow up Mac fan boys. Same code
for Mac and Windows.

Who's problem is it? Anyone build a programm that can replace Photoshop? No.

Flash can do so much and is never going away.

 

[memco]

Slightly OT: this doesn't work when running the latest webkit nightly with the last Safari 4 Beta. I'm very tempted to update, but I'm still holding on to my tabs on top. Does anyone have a way to update 4.0.2 with tabs on top and using the Webkit nightly?