3G iPhone, Front-Sided Camera for Video Chat?

[t0mat0]

I don't friggin care if it has a built-in play dough press so i can squeeze pretend pasta out of the rear of my iPhone. All I want is an iPhone with 3G support. That's it. Keep the iPhone the way it is, but add the 3G hardware in order to catch up with the rest of the planet.

Well, I'd imagine someone could knock you up a playdough app.

Some stats from the most likely Infineon chip to get plugged into the next gen iPhone (unless they have some sneaky ones hidden out back).

The Infineon S-Gold 3H:

■ CPU, RGB display interface supporting high resolution color displays
up to HVGA
■ High-speed serial display interface for cost effective clamshell
mechanics up to HVGA
■ Support of cameras up to 5 MPixel
■ MPEG4 / H.263 hardware accelerator
■ MP3, AAC, AAC+, enhanced AAC+
■ 2D Graphic hardware
■ Support for video telephony, streaming, recording and playback
■ 2 x MMC/SD interfaces, SDIO capable (Think N96)
■ USB 2.0 on-the-go, full speed
■ Fast IRDA
■ Multimedia extension interface (MMIC-IF) for support of high end
graphic accelerators
■ 2 bi-directional digital audio interfaces (I2S) to connect audio
companion ICs and Bluetooth modules
■ HSDPA - category 8 (7.2 Mbit/s)
– Configurable to lower categories / data rates
– Option to switch off HSDPA to save power
■ WCDMA
■ EDGE multislot class 12
■ GPRS / GSM
■ Polyphonic Ringer support for up to 64 voices at
up to 48 kHz sampling rate
■ Echo cancellation/noise reduction

More good news: They were sampling Q1 06. Whilst the S-GOLD3H is the heart of Infineon's next-generation mobile multimedia platform, (MP-EH) another component of the MP-EH is an A-GPS positioning single-chip named Hammerhead.

 

[iStefmac]

If iChat would be the only iPhone messenger, than it would be completely useless in most parts of the world. For example in Europe nearly everybody uses msn.

No, see the world doesnt work that way. It would not be completely useless, because the people who desire to have mobile iPhone chatting will use whatever is provided for them. It won't be used more or less due to the lack of MSN. MSN messenger won't be included because it is incredibly UNPOPULAR, despite fanatic claims, and Apple does not believe in running competing apps. They see no reason to take up space with apps that are almost as good as others, but not quite.

 

[Poll Smoker]

I'm pretty sure everyone in the world has been expecting this for a while now and he calls this a scoop??? lol

It looks more real because you've mocked-up a web page and added clever tag lines!

 

[student101]

I don't friggin care if it has a built-in play dough press so i can squeeze pretend pasta out of the rear of my iPhone. All I want is an iPhone with 3G support. That's it. Keep the iPhone the way it is, but add the 3G hardware in order to catch up with the rest of the planet.

I second this sentiment.

 

[corywoolf]

I call shenanigans. There are more important things to be accomplished before video conferencing on iPhone. How about a higher mega-pixel camera, more storage (32 GB), Podcast app, Video recording w/ direct YouTube upload, video store, and Apple TV integration app. Why would Apple and at&t support video conferencing before a video store? Unless there is an extra monthly fee for the option of video conferencing, the video store would make way more money.

 

[Ironduke]

hopefully steve will go straight to hsdpa, 3g is so last year

 

[student101]

hopefully steve will go straight to hsdpa, 3g is so last year

I thought HSDPA was 3G.

 

[Ironduke]

I thought HSDPA was 3G.

gprs = 2G 5kb
edge = 2.5G 20+kb
3g = 3G 70kb
hsdpa = 3.5G 200-400kb

hsdpa in the uk is at 1.8MBits, moving upto 3.6MBits this year, I myself have experienced the glory of 1.8MBits on my old Toshiba g500, its the onlything that lets my iphone down.

ordinary 3g has speeds about 0.7Mbits I think

 

[t0mat0]

Why a video capable camera?
Well, have a look at David Pogue's article on the flip video cam. Best seller on Amazon for camcorders for some time, and taking >10% of the market. Turn on, shoot, upload. I have a feeling that come June, video will become big for the iPhone.

 

[MacFly123]

Why a video capable camera?
Well, have a look at David Pogue's article on the flip video cam. Best seller on Amazon for camcorders for some time, and taking >10% of the market. Turn on, shoot, upload. I have a feeling that come June, video will become big for the iPhone.

I agree. I don't get why all these people in here think that it is so unrealistic. Ok so in the rest of the world you all have it, but it has been implemented like crap, too expensive, poor quality, so nobody uses it. That is what Apple will change, they will do it very cool, simple, and as far as I'm concerned it would be free because you already have unlimited data and WIFI and all you will be doing is iChatting over the data network or WIFI NOT making video phone calls. So I don't see a problem. I think it will be sweet. I think that the other features that people are saying are more important will come as well. That is the point of iPhone OS X 2.0. It is not just going to be some little upgrade, it will be like going from Tiger to Leopard with lots of new features. And yes I know the hardware is currently quite powerful, that is why I think the only real changes in hardware will be 3G, iSight & higher megapixel camera on the back, 32GB memory, and hopefully GPS too.

You all need to open your minds a bit. It's like saying, oh who cares if Apple is going to make a cell phone, those have been around for 15 years. . . . Well we have all seen what the iPhone has done to the industry even with some lacking features because it is an Apple implementation AKA amazing interface, cool, simple, elegant, fun.

So yes, I think video will be making a big appearance in iPhone 2.0 and the rest of the worlds problem of crappy video chat implementation will change pretty quick!

Look at my mockups in my previous posts on page 3 if you want to see how simple it would be!

 

[alansmallen]

Plus. AT&T offers a VideoShare service where you can video chat with anyone that has a 3G Capable phone. I don't think they'd allow Apple to do their own thing on their own phone without using their network.

 

[Theatrics]

bah, K.Rose is fulla feces. Remember his first iPhone rumor? "it's gonna be fully unlocked, GMS and CDMA, blah blah blah. If apple doesn't want you to know about iPhone 2, you won't. End of Story. Now go eat some hagus and stare at your Diggnation poster while listing to audio loops of kevin rose on your ipod while watching reruns of the screensavers.

/clap

 

[TheSlush]

Front-facing camera

As for a front-facing camera, this might not require a lens: Apple has a patent in place which describes a way for a display's pixels to capture an image in front of them, rather than a traditional camera lens:

Apple Integrated Sensing Display

 

[t0mat0]

I think that the other features that people are saying are more important will come as well. That is the point of iPhone OS X 2.0. It is not just going to be some little upgrade, it will be like going from Tiger to Leopard with lots of new features. And yes I know the hardware is currently quite powerful, that is why I think the only real changes in hardware will be 3G, iSight & higher megapixel camera on the back, 32GB memory, and hopefully GPS too.

You all need to open your minds a bit. It's like saying, oh who cares if Apple is going to make a cell phone, those have been around for 15 years. . . . Well we have all seen what the iPhone has done to the industry even with some lacking features because it is an Apple implementation AKA amazing interface, cool, simple, elegant, fun.

The 2.0 software SDK allows Apple to outsource application development to an extent. It's a positive thing , as it will foster a community, and the developers will be able to feel a lot more involved hopefully. They let developers rip on building applications utilising the phone's capabilities.
Come A-GPS, 3G and video, even more potential features become possible.

 

[wizard]

Well, I'd imagine someone could knock you up a playdough app.

Some stats from the most likely Infineon chip to get plugged into the next gen iPhone (unless they have some sneaky ones hidden out back).

The Infineon S-Gold 3H:

Frankly not good enough! Broadcom has a better solution. Even then I want to see HD video on these things, that is 720P.

If Apple comes out with a 3G phone that isn't any better than the current one just o satisfy the whining 3G crowd I'm really going to be pissed. They have a huge opportunity to move the platform ahead of the crowd right not and really need to get off the pot and deliver something impressive. As it is 3G is most of appeal to Europeans and other idiots that talk with their hands. That is all that video conferencing/chat or whatever you want to call it is, an opportunity for the older cultures to keep from adapting to the new realities.

The reason there are few front facing cameras in the USA is simply the reality that we don't need people to see our faces and hands to get a point across.

Dave

 

[t0mat0]

Frankly not good enough! Broadcom has a better solution. Even then I want to see HD video on these things, that is 720P.

If Apple comes out with a 3G phone that isn't any better than the current one just o satisfy the whining 3G crowd I'm really going to be pissed. They have a huge opportunity to move the platform ahead of the crowd right not and really need to get off the pot and deliver something impressive. As it is 3G is most of appeal to Europeans and other idiots that talk with their hands. That is all that video conferencing/chat or whatever you want to call it is, an opportunity for the older cultures to keep from adapting to the new realities.

Oh my. <waves hands> Can we have both an early update of the hardware, and a huge hardware upgrade? I understand your point, and i'd love to see the Broadcom chip in there in preference, but the fact of the Infineon-Apple deal, plus Infineon already covering the baseband chip...One problem with this chip is when it's going to come out. Whilst taped for 2H 08, the details are murky:

"The only question is when will it be in a production-level cellphone? Broadcom claims that the BCM21551 is "available now to early access customers," but on their introductory conference call they indicated that the chip they have now is the first tape-out and billed it as "Version 0 Rev A," and not yet completely verified. That indicates to us that general sampling is probably not before the second half of 2008. Broadcom said that the device would be shipping in cellphones "in 2009," but we assume that's the second half of 2009, since a typical handset design-in takes about 18 months."
http://www.eetindia.co.in/ART_8800486666_1800001_NT_0e2346ad.HTM
Infineon will have chips out in 2Q 08, and are ramping up big style in 2008. Broadcom seem to be shooting the gun slightly by announcing early. I'll save this thread from the detail of the Infineon earnings call info I put on the "3G Iphone - Its release date" thread, but suffice to say, someone is buying big to get the Infineon chips out come June this year.

The Broadcom BCM21551 - doesn't do Wifi, or GPS, but can be paired with other Broadcom devices that do. But the BCM21551 lacks support for EV-DO.

It is available for early access customers. We'll see I guess! If Apple wanted they could turn the iPhone into say a 3 phone line up - Infineon in the lowest one, with then Broadcom in the other two, with higher capacities...

 

[atropos]

From different source told me that, they have 3D visualization screen and you can grab and feel the button~~~~blah blah blah....... LoL.... .. I can BS around too

 

[Ironduke]

Frankly not good enough! Broadcom has a better solution. Even then I want to see HD video on these things, that is 720P.

If Apple comes out with a 3G phone that isn't any better than the current one just o satisfy the whining 3G crowd I'm really going to be pissed. They have a huge opportunity to move the platform ahead of the crowd right not and really need to get off the pot and deliver something impressive. As it is 3G is most of appeal to Europeans and other idiots that talk with their hands. That is all that video conferencing/chat or whatever you want to call it is, an opportunity for the older cultures to keep from adapting to the new realities.

The reason there are few front facing cameras in the USA is simply the reality that we don't need people to see our faces and hands to get a point across.

Dave

no 3g is most appeal to anyone who prefers broadband speeds over edge which is jumped up dialup mkay.

benefits?

You wouldnt need to be connected via wifi to download from the itunes store
Proper Fast loading Web Pages and Higher quality videos

 

[raykhrud]

You CAN make video calls while in 3G networks! Even in Russia you can. It costs like 25 cents per minute here.
And it is quite embarrassing to use EDGE while we have HSDPA here for the same prices.

 

[iEdd]

gprs = 2G 5kb
edge = 2.5G 20+kb
3g = 3G 70kb
hsdpa = 3.5G 200-400kb

hsdpa in the uk is at 1.8MBits, moving upto 3.6MBits this year, I myself have experienced the glory of 1.8MBits on my old Toshiba g500, its the onlything that lets my iphone down.

ordinary 3g has speeds about 0.7Mbits I think

Isn't it actually...?
gprs = 2G 7+kB/s (56-114kb/s) [wikipedia]
edge = 2.5G 20+kB/s (236.8kb/s) [wikipedia]
etc, as 1b ≠ 1B, 8b = 1B

 

[iWizzard]

gprs = 2G 5kb
edge = 2.5G 20+kb
3g = 3G 70kb
hsdpa = 3.5G 200-400kb

ordinary 3g has speeds about 0.7Mbits I think

What the operators call 3G in Sweden is either 365Kbit, 3.6Mbit or 7,2Mbit depending on where you live. The closer to a large city the better. (Price is $33/month)

The most important thing about 3G is that you can both talk and surf/IM etc at the same time with EDGE seem to lack from what I have read.

 

[xenotaku]

It's coming in June. Between hints from apple, financial institutions talking about it, the release of the official SDK, getting ready for the new school year, and small rumors like this...yada yada....its gotta come out in June or sometime in the summer. A june or late summer release will also allow them to see what demand is like, and work out any kinks in manufacturing before the holidays. I don't have any inside info, I'm just using common sense. Apple knows there are MILLIONS of customers that don't have an iPhone because they are waiting for 3G and/or corporate software. This is just in the States, across the pond, the iPhone is a laughing stock. A smart phone without 3G...no wonder its selling like crap in Europe. They have had 3G for years in Europe.

 

[EagerDragon]

I believe him.

The issue with the double battery was likely correct and a change to a single battery at the last minute.

The slide out keyboard was probably coming out of mis-information from Apple itself, to trow people off. Remember there were many different models of the iPhone, at least 10, likely there were more than that but some of them were for dis-information.

The video on the front is something logical that many of us have asked for and can be used by iChat.

I think he is being honest, but some of his sources maybe compromised or the information maybe several months old and some of the decisions may have changed.

 

[t0mat0]

From different source told me that, they have 3D visualization screen and you can grab and feel the button~~~~blah blah blah....... LoL.... .. I can BS around too

I guessed you missed the recent round of tech conventions
What with the 3d displays, haptic feedback with floating controller...

 

[winterspan]

Some stats from the most likely Infineon chip to get plugged into the next gen iPhone (unless they have some sneaky ones hidden out back).
The Infineon S-Gold 3H:
More good news: They were sampling Q1 06. Whilst the S-GOLD3H is the heart of Infineon's next-generation mobile multimedia platform, (MP-EH) another component of the MP-EH is an A-GPS positioning single-chip named Hammerhead.

Oh my. <waves hands> Can we have both an early update of the hardware, and a huge hardware upgrade? I understand your point, and i'd love to see the Broadcom chip in there in preference, but the fact of the Infineon-Apple deal, plus Infineon already covering the baseband chip...One problem with this chip is when it's going to come out. Whilst taped for 2H 08, the details are murky:

"The only question is when will it be in a production-level cellphone? Broadcom claims that the BCM21551 is "available now to early access customers," but on their introductory conference call they indicated that the chip they have now is the first tape-out and billed it as "Version 0 Rev A," and not yet completely verified. That indicates to us that general sampling is probably not before the second half of 2008. Broadcom said that the device would be shipping in cellphones "in 2009," but we assume that's the second half of 2009, since a typical handset design-in takes about 18 months."
http://www.eetindia.co.in/ART_8800486666_1800001_NT_0e2346ad.HTM
Infineon will have chips out in 2Q 08, and are ramping up big style in 2008. Broadcom seem to be shooting the gun slightly by announcing early. I'll save this thread from the detail of the Infineon earnings call info I put on the "3G Iphone - Its release date" thread, but suffice to say, someone is buying big to get the Infineon chips out come June this year.
The Broadcom BCM21551 - doesn't do Wifi, or GPS, but can be paired with other Broadcom devices that do. But the BCM21551 lacks support for EV-DO.

Frankly not good enough! Broadcom has a better solution. Even then I want to see HD video on these things, that is 720P.

I'm not an engineer, but I try to know my stuff. When you are guys are essentially talking about next gen iPhone features other than purely communications support (AKA UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA) like multimedia capabilities of 720P video, 3d hardware acceleration, etc, why are you guys discussing the baseband and communications chips and not the applications processor SOC ?

Assuming Apple is not going to keep perfect performance parity between the newer and older iphone, the new iPhone should have an updated processor, right?
Although shouldn't this have a large effect on software development? think of a game developer trying to fine-tune a games graphics capabilities within the limits of the iPhone.. If a newer has faster 3d rendering/processing, wouldn't they have to maintain parallel developments or at least performance profiles for each iphone model?

Anyways, AFAIK, the current iPhone has a Samsung ARM11-based S3C6400. Wouldn't the next logical step be to go to a Samsung or TI based ARM Cortex model? Im assuming 65nm ARM Cortex A8/A9 series would be available by now for Apple to use in the 3G iPhone.

I don't friggin care if it has a built-in play dough press so i can squeeze pretend pasta out of the rear of my iPhone. All I want is an iPhone with 3G support. That's it. Keep the iPhone the way it is, but add the 3G hardware in order to catch up with the rest of the planet.

HAHHAHA! Play-dough pasta maker... That brought back some old memories...

gprs = 2G 5kb
edge = 2.5G 20+kb
3g = 3G 70kb
hsdpa = 3.5G 200-400kb
hsdpa in the uk is at 1.8MBits, moving upto 3.6MBits this year, I myself have experienced the glory of 1.8MBits on my old Toshiba g500, its the onlything that lets my iphone down. ordinary 3g has speeds about 0.7Mbits I think

It's sort of odd that you are quoting those speeds in kilobytes instead of kilobits.. Anyways, I hate how cell phone companies use don't keep the generations to integers, with all this 2.5G, 2.75G and 3.5G nonsense. I say everyone calls 1xRTT/GPRS/EDGE 2G. Similarly, EVDO rev0/EVDO revA/UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA are 3G... and LTE/HSPA+/HSOPA/WiMax/WiBro are 4G.

While I'm on the topic, does anyone know how much of AT&Ts existing 3G network has HSUPA? And per their announcement that they are trying to roll out 3G to the top ~100 markets ASAP in 2008, is that including HSUPA in addition to 7.2 HSDPA? (about time.. Verizon has had 3G EVDO in most of the country's cities and suburbs for years). I really hope so, for god sakes, Japan is launching a "4G"/LTE based HSOPA network before 2010.

As it is 3G is most of appeal to Europeans and other idiots that talk with their hands. That is all that video conferencing/chat or whatever you want to call it is, an opportunity for the older cultures to keep from adapting to the new realities. The reason there are few front facing cameras in the USA is simply the reality that we don't need people to see our faces and hands to get a point across.

Dave

That is so incredibly ignorant I don't even know how to respond. First of all, 3G "doesn't appeal" to Americans because they don't even know what it is or that it's available and because they have no use for it on their cheap POS handsets. Remember, most Americans spend less than $100 on cellphones and do not get the giant subsidies (read: competition is poor) that Europeans get on phones with contracts. Phones that are actually useful for having a fast data connection, like an N95/HTC Tytn II/8525/Iphone are not available for free or $25 on a 2-year contract, and most Americans are incredibly cheap when it comes to phones anyways.

Your other premise that a 3G data connection is only useful for video calling is just as moronic, as is your stupid rant about Europeans "not adapting to new realities" because you think they use too much non-verbal communication. Have you even been outside the ignorance-inducing walls of United States?