4.7-Inch iPhone 6 Front Panel Subjected to More Rigorous Scratch Tests, May Not Be Sapphire

[Toltepeceno]

Worked hard, he just makes some videos. And I thought in America you scabbed off your parents when you were in School, I thought it was when you were in College you had to earn money?

So what age are you in School till?Why do you have to pay for it?

I'm not in the USA, I had to work to help put food on the table, buy clothes, items for school and yes you have to pay to go to school here. Not everyone comes from a home where mommy is able to spoon feed our whole life.

I won't claim to know his parents financial situation or how he much he contributes to his own life essentials enough to claim he doesn't. Neither do you.

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The phone needs to not only fit but go deep into the pocket or else it'll fall out. My pants with the deepest pockets fit my iPhone 5 easily, but some of my pants barely fit it, causing it to fall out really easily. The other problem is that trendy pants (at least in the U.S., don't know about Mexico) have very small pockets for some reason. You have to carefully choose pants to get decent pockets here.

The 11 year old has a 4.5" android and is able to carry it in his pockets very well without even coming close to falling out. Some of our clothes are from here, some we order from the US. The quality is better from the us. Yes, I know most both places are done in china, we just get the worst quality and brands.

 

[Toltepeceno]

Could be an entire new formulation of either one or a combination of both who knows. I do know its tough though and they will market the HELL! Out of it

It appears to be the same toughness as gg regardless. There are youtube videos of gg bending it the same and keys, etc. won't scratch it. The sand (sandpaper) will, just like the video.

Anything is possible, but I will believe it when I see it and it would be surprising that no patents have popped up for any kind of combination.

I'm betting gg3, but again anything is possible.

Gorilla glass 2 bending:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4j4wqA2Mko

Even regluar glass is harder on the moh scale than keys, etc. It's sand in people's pockets, etc. that scratches gorilla glass. It would not scratch sapphire. So far the tests shown reflect what would happen with gorilla glass.

 

[apolloa]

I'm not in the USA, I had to work to help put food on the table, buy clothes, items for school and yes you have to pay to go to school here. Not everyone comes from a home where mommy is able to spoon feed our whole life.

I won't claim to know his parents financial situation or how he much he contributes to his own life essentials enough to claim he doesn't. Neither do you.

That doesn't really answer my question though. Where you live could be a different education system etc to America.

 

[mozumder]

The only problem with this is that, if the outer layer is pure sapphire, it still shouldn't scratch any easier than if the entire substrate is sapphire. I really do not have a good explanation for what I'm seeing in the tests. I'm like you though, in the end, I guess it shouldn't matter that much. If it resist scratching by quartz, 95% of battle is done. There is so much less corundum is most people's soil that scratching from dirt is much less of an issue than before.

Perhaps not pure sapphire but sapphire with heavily doped materials placed in it during Czochralski growth process.

Or if they got fancy then maybe the dopants were Ion implanted.

But most likely he just scratched the oleophobic coating.

 

[StyxMaker]

I've seen these stupid scratch tests many times over the years, and somehow mere finger swipes on the front of a phone end up scratching it. Until/unless we get 100% sapphire screens, a screen protector is highly advisable.

Only sapphire crystal protects against minute particles of grit and sand which are in everyone's pockets and on everyone's fingertips.

You dip your fingers in emory powder before you swipe?

 

[iChrist]

Or, more likely, that isn't an actual front panel from the production line.

I already told you guys. There will be NO sapphire front panel in the iPhone 6.

They are saving it as a "new" feature for the 6S.

 

[Zerilos]

Oh give me a break.....

Some random bloke on a random You Tube channel apparently obtains what must be through illegal means an apparent part of the yet to be ANNOUNCED iPhone, and claims it isn't sapphire glass... because sandpaper scratches it, and Mac Rumors runs with the story. [insert facepalm]

Seriously, considering how much Apple has apparently invested into sapphire glass manufacturing, according to this site, I think it's safe to say the iPhone glass is Sapphire, but it is also not the normal sapphire glass considering how much it bends, it's been interlaced with other things or made differently.

I'm guessing you didn't even watch the video.

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It's probably Gorilla Glass 3 which is a newer version with more strength and scratch resistance then the original or GG 2. A few of the latest phones like the G3 and Galaxy S5 are using GG 3.

The 5s is believed to use GG 3.

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Anyways, I bet samsung already has seen the video, and canceled the plans for putting a sapphire screen on their next crappy thing.

Why are people saying this? It performed very well compared to GG 3 and does have the flaws associated with sapphire.

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I already told you guys. There will be NO sapphire front panel in the iPhone 6.

They are saving it as a "new" feature for the 6S.

If the video is accurate then the panel is likely a sapphire composite rather than pure sapphire.

 

[jetlitheone]

I always carry sand in my pocket.
Image

Actually, a lot of sand ends up in pockets. Idk why lol

 

[iolinux333]

2mm is very thick for flexible glass, not to mention crystals (just to cover all the bases). The thickness of the entire 5s is under 9mm. A CD/DVD is 1.2mm, but let's say that it is 1.0mm, for the sake of argument. The lateral shift scales linearly with substrate thickness, so it is under 0.2mm of relative displacement between glass and sapphire, measured in a plane parallel to the substrate. This means that the spots also smear very significantly, and collimating a beam smaller than 2mm is very difficult. A 2mm beam would smear to more than double it's width, so we would be trying to detect a shift that is a small fraction of the beam width. There is a critical angle associated with light propagation in glass. If it is higher than a certain angle it cannot escape. You get close to this angle if you can illuminate the substrate at almost 90 degrees. For standard glass of an index of 1.5 this value is asin(1/1.5) = ~34deg. For sapphire this is asin(1/1.78) = ~42 deg. This means that the maximum relative shift of of spots between these two types of glass is 0.22mm per 1mm thickness of the glass. To get 1cm of differential shift, the glass would have to be more than 45mm thick. This is why the company that owns the web page you linked stays in business. This kind of thing isn't trivial to figure out without high precision tools, and this is one of the services they provide.

We'll then what about just seeing what the critical angle is for the 5 panel vs the supposed 6 panel? 34 vs 42 degrees seems like something pretty easy to measure.

 

[kdarling]

If the video is accurate then the panel is likely a sapphire composite rather than pure sapphire.

It would have to be a layered composite. Sapphire and glass are two totally different materials, made in totally different ways. They can't mix them together, they have to be layered separately.

So either the top surface is sapphire or it is not. In the video, it doesn't seem to be, because it scratched while the Touch Id (made of sapphire) did not. (Unless that was the oleophotic coating that scratched instead. I wish someone with some engineering background would test one of these screens. It's like when Gizmodo got hold of that prototype and didn't even think to examine the screen to figure out its resolution.)

Of course, the screen in the video might not be a production piece.

Maybe just people are wanting it to be sapphire and they can't come out and say it's gg? I did read up on apples patent on flexible sapphire and the glass is not flexible, the liquid metal is.

If you read about it on Patenty Apple, they got it wrong (as usual).

Not only is the patent NOT about flexible sapphire (as you noted), but it has nothing to do with liquid metal either. Whoever wrote that article obviously didn't understand that the alumina in the patent is used to create the sapphire, and is not related to liquid metal at all.

 

[bobenhaus]

The people claiming MKBHD is biased to Android is hilarious when he uses a Mac Pro as a desktop and other Apple products. He even stated in the first video about the display that he's excited to see other phone manufacturers adopt a display similar to this one in their phones because it's that good.

Why you think he's Android biased because he isn't brainwashed to believe that Apple is the holy grail of the tech world is beyond me, especially for posting a fair and non biased review...

Word. He isn't brainwashed and uses other devices because of their functionality.

 

[Wishbrah]

Plot twist: sandpaper was made with diamond granules.

 

[alexgowers]

But Apple will somehow call it "sapphire" as a selling point. Didn't they push sapphire for the home button and camera cover? I except the same for the display. All they did was create a hybrid display that still scratches; it just makes a different sound.

And what's the problem with that, it's been shown to be better than gorilla glass 3 and may contain sapphire. There is no one obscuring the facts here to sell phones we are speculating on what Apple might do with their marketing and calling them guilty of misselling already? That's a bit mad IMHO,

A better screen is better regardless of what spin apple eventually decide to put on it. It certainly looks promising considering apple has not been making glass before and Corning are already behind? Says something maybe about Corning not making the very best glass they can make, to later sell an improved version they could have made already, now that is shady!!!!

 

[wovel]

It's great to see MKBHD on the front page of MR. He's a fantastic tech reviewer.

So this display is kind of gimmicky then.



This becomes an issue if you get sand in your pocket, as that is mostly made of Quartz (7 on mohs scale — see first sandpaper test).

Sure because having sand in your pocket is exactly the same as vigorously scrubbing the screen with sandpaper. It may be time to float back down to earth now before you drift away.

 

[fullauto]

Maybe it's the curved edge but these panels appear thicker than previous models? Are these one offs or available parts? Skeptical.

 

[ChrisA]

1. Find physics 101 student
2. Light source
3. Measure angle
4. Have student calculate index of refraction

Takes one minute then you know for certain.

sheesh

Yes, I was also wondering why this guy was using such primitive test methods. Scratching with sand paper is not very accurate. A soft object can scratch a harder object. The softer part just sees more wear.

Even soft wood can wear down the sandpaper and reduce the size of the abrasive grains.

As quoted above measuring the refractive index is a good high school physics project. Also they could take a sample of the "glass" and measure its density.

I could think of a few tests that would determine if the glass is laminated or a solid substance.

 

[MrX8503]

So you chose not to answer my question about American Schools then. Good for him being successful, if he wants to waste his money on thousands of dollars worth of camera then more for him. Total waste for You Tube.

Watching his video, it is flawed, for one he has a non stable piece of glass, and the other is it looks to me his iPhone 5S has a screen protector on it, but if not then who is going to do that to an iPhone 5S without someone sending them the phone, or paying them to do it?

Would you make a You Tube video and scratch the glass of all your devices?

You're obviously jealous of his success.

 

[wikiverse]

So since it seems to be only a little bit harder I'm going to guess it might be a newer version of Gorilla Glass.

Out of curiosity is there a already known version of GG that the 5S isn't using?

Well, I already have a 9h rated glass screen protector on my iphone5. I can hit it quite hard with a hammer and there is no scratching or damage at all.

Also, if it ever does crack or scratch, I can just peel it off and put a new one on. It's like a sacrificial layer that will protect my phone ever to the point of failure.

 

[TheGenerous]

I wonder if Marques Brownlee has setup himself into a persona non grata for Apple by using leaked parts, or stolen, and broadcasting them into a major audience. Jason Chen from Gizmodo gained fame by announcing a stolen prototype of an iPhone 4.

Honestly it is sad to see Marques doing this kind of thing just for the high of appearing in every tech and non tech site with an iPhone 6 rumor.

Glorious were the days when we had true Mac rumors with concept artwork distributed across the internet and the blurry –yet misterious– photographs of newer Apple devices.

 

[Gnomepatrol]

Oh give me a break.....

Some random bloke on a random You Tube channel apparently obtains what must be through illegal means an apparent part of the yet to be ANNOUNCED iPhone, and claims it isn't sapphire glass... because sandpaper scratches it, and Mac Rumors runs with the story. [insert facepalm]

Seriously, considering how much Apple has apparently invested into sapphire glass manufacturing, according to this site, I think it's safe to say the iPhone glass is Sapphire, but it is also not the normal sapphire glass considering how much it bends, it's been interlaced with other things or made differently.

I don't know, to me it makes much more sense to do a layered approach with the sapphire. It's hard, very hard, but that also means it is brittle. A drop of a pure sapphire screen from a normal pocket or talking height would probably lead to a shattered screen. Coating or applying a highly scratch resistant layer of sapphire over a more giving glass base, should in theory, give you a bit of the best of both.

Pure sapphire for those small parts that need it, like the camera lens and touch-id is a good thing. They are also smaller and protected by the rest of the phones casing. It would be a very odd situation for them to take a direct hit from anything.

 

[pedromcm.pm]

While you are at it, would you mind picking up a dictionary as well our kid..

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Lets not forget. "Retina" is still marketed as a good phone screen.. Jeez.. Its not. Even 720p, it's cringing as to how far behind the curve Apple is these days.. When fanboys see the light which more and more are doing it's as if a light bulb has been switched on..

a) Apple never sold as many devices (most of them to previous android users)
b) the screen used on the iPhone is the very best on some areas and one of the best overall. Apple is in the same spot of the curve as Samsung and LG.

Anyone knows this, even trolls. Check Anandtech.

So you are completely wrong and you should see the light ASAP. You are one of those poor souls that only see 13 MP as being bigger than 8 MP (making it better camera) and more cores = better.

Inform yourself. Learn something.

 

[MacDarcy]

Or...um....maybe that's not even a real iphone 6 panel at all. Ever think of that?

 

[Moto G]

Is this all people have to obsess over these days? Wow...


*yawn* - wake me up when it's actually released

 

[whtrbt7]

I don't remember if Apple announced that any materials would be pure sapphire on the new phones. GTA originally purchased TCT in order to make cheaper laminate material which would contain sapphire for electronics usage which would be slightly better than Corning's new GG tech. This alongside oleophobic coatings for sapphire composites leads me to believe that the new material Apple wants to use is a thinner, stronger composite material for their touchscreen electronics instead of go with a traditional sapphire crystal display which would be extremely heavy and expensive, not to mention thick for the application. Some of this laminate material is already used in high-end automobiles that use it for rock protection.

 

[apolloa]

You're obviously jealous of his success.

Erm? No, not really. I don't think he's very moral.

I'm guessing you didn't even watch the video.

Wrong, I did watch it.

I don't know, to me it makes much more sense to do a layered approach with the sapphire. It's hard, very hard, but that also means it is brittle. A drop of a pure sapphire screen from a normal pocket or talking height would probably lead to a shattered screen. Coating or applying a highly scratch resistant layer of sapphire over a more giving glass base, should in theory, give you a bit of the best of both.

Pure sapphire for those small parts that need it, like the camera lens and touch-id is a good thing. They are also smaller and protected by the rest of the phones casing. It would be a very odd situation for them to take a direct hit from anything.

Android Authority used to make the best screen resilience tests by dropping the devices, unfortunately they seem to have stopped making them, but that is how to properly test a screen, drop it, that's what people will do with their phones.

And that comes to your point above. I think it is sapphire but made differently in some way, perhaps added as a layer as you state. I don't know what he has on the video, but it will be interesting to see those drop test videos of the real iPhone 6.