4 months of Snow Leopard, I've had enough

[Mlobo01]

Episode IV: A new hope...

"....I have high hopes on Apple..." I think there in lies the issue, you may have to go on logic and not hope in order for you to be a better user, I understand your dilemma, my advice seems like admonition but it is not, I usually keep things cool and detached because I need you to read my post, at some point you need to get that there isn't enough education out there regarding upgrading to a new OS specially if you are new to mac, still, you need to have a proper dialogue with your fellow users since they may be able to help or not depending on how you establish your communication and the tenor of your writing, keep the speculation and the phantasmagoria of what may or may not happen to a minimum, unless Steve Jobs tells you:"I don't care about first gen, Intel users" then avoid articulating these types of distortions, there are better ways of expressing frustration and anxiety, save your energy for the sole goal of getting your system to optimum levels. You will find this community has great users and are helpful, and when they read things like your posts they may avoid replying since it lacks a certain restraint, keep it cool, since you may still yet find solutions to your issue, and regardless of how may gems Apple has had, avoid upgrading unless its a controlled experiment or procedure, in the end you will find this to save you time and resources. Ciao

 

[Jason Beck]

At least as far as operating systems go, it's light years better than Vista and
ME.
LOL.
That in itself makes it worth it.

 

[dmmcintyre3]

My Epson printer made in the DOS era still works fine in Snow Leopard, just as good as on leopard. Actually it is better looking than win XP. Now, if that PoS would just work without me having to babysit it while it prints.

 

[mabaker]

There will inevitably be problems with older printers indeed. This is unfortunate indeed and should be definitely fixed by the company producing the printers...

Having said that I still have my FIVE year old HP LAserJet 2300 working flawlessly under Snow Leopard. It's Bpnjour enabled so absolutely no problems whatsoever.

And guys, do you really have so many problems with Office 2008 after the latest SP? IMO it helped solve a lot of issues. Not perfect by any means considering the speed but it's faster than it was initially.

Oh, and please don't compare Windows 7 to SL. IT's a misguided comparison. Especially when you think that the very same "dock" that has been heralded as "new" has been there in Windows XP all along with some minor adjustments.

 

[eRondeau]

...nothing at work wants to work with snow leopard. (mainly lotus notes, which is heavily relied on).

Snow Leopard rejects Lotus Notes in much the same way your white blood cells fight-off an infection. (And for the same reason.) I have used Lotus Notes at work on a PC-based system for eight years and it is absolutely awful. It's like their programmers sat down and challenged each other to write the most user-UNfriendly software they could. If Snow Leopard won't let you run it consider yourself lucky.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I downloaded the Epson drivers from their website several times, and they still did not show up in my printer options in Snow Leopard. I had nothing but Gutenprint to select from. This was Snow Leopard's fault since Epson said they were compatible with 10.6+. I never got a decent print, and that's the bottom line.

No it is EPSON's fault. They made the drivers and claimed them compatible with 10.6. If they aren't then they need to re-do them.

 

[TAJones99]

I have SL on my 2006 white iMac and early 2006 macbook pro and I have not had any problems at all I did clean installs on both I'm loving SL, and really love the xcode looks now

 

[Xavier]

I archived and installed Snow Leopard on my 2007 MBP and I have not had a single problem. (knock on wood.)

 

[alleycat]

No it is EPSON's fault. They made the drivers and claimed them compatible with 10.6. If they aren't then they need to re-do them.

I disagree completely. Rosetta is the technology which should make the drivers work. It doesn't, thus being stuck with Gutenprint in 10.6.

 

[celticpride678]

I archived and installed Snow Leopard on my 2007 MBP and I have not had a single problem. (knock on wood.)

You Archived and Installed after you upgraded Snow Leopard?

 

[sidewinder]

I disagree completely. Rosetta is the technology which should make the drivers work. It doesn't, thus being stuck with Gutenprint in 10.6.

You can disagree all you want, but that does not make you right.

If Epson has drivers that are supposed to work under 10.6, it is Epson's responsibility to make sure they work with 10.6. Apple has zero responsibility here.

S-

 

[sidewinder]

I archived and installed Snow Leopard on my 2007 MBP and I have not had a single problem. (knock on wood.)

You Archived and Installed after you upgraded Snow Leopard?

No. The default install for Snow Leopard is a modified "archive and install".

S-

 

[ABG]

I'm sick of all the b*tching about Snow Leopard.

& I'm sick of all the b*tching by people with no problems blaming everyone and everything except Apple for SL issues. Ces't la vie.

I've had problems with Mail since going to SL on my 24" iMac. Generally I can only exit by using force quit.

 

[TonyK]

Heck, if it weren't for removing PPC code, there would be no Snow Leopard.

It took me 4 months to upgrade and prune my system in anticipation of SL. Wanted to give independent developers time to upgrade their apps, and to get the first 1 or 2 patches out. SL is on this system and it is pretty happy. Lost an older app (RealViz Stitcher) but it was an OLD app. Never used it much anyway and I'll find a replacement when I need it.

take care folks,

...This entire thread is similar to PPC users complaining about SL not supporting PPC processors. People have to stop providing support sometime.

Okay, sorry for the tone this might take...

Rosetta is for applications. Applications operate at a high level. Rosetta sits between the OS and the application. Drivers sit at the OS level, thus Rosetta probably cannot see them. Drivers are VERY low level creatures. That is why they can bring an OS to its knees quickly and with horrible consequences.

I disagree completely. Rosetta is the technology which should make the drivers work. It doesn't, thus being stuck with Gutenprint in 10.6.

LOL

Was a Notes programmer from 1993 through 1997. Thankfully I've forgotten all I knew about it. It was horrible then, I can only imagine the mess it is now.

Snow Leopard rejects Lotus Notes in much the same way your white blood cells fight-off an infection. (And for the same reason.) I have used Lotus Notes at work on a PC-based system for eight years and it is absolutely awful. It's like their programmers sat down and challenged each other to write the most user-UNfriendly software they could. If Snow Leopard won't let you run it consider yourself lucky.

Faith is good for a lot of things. When dealing with companies though we need to look at track records, past performance and interactions with customers to hopefully guide us in a company's future performance.

I was a MS user from DOS 2.1 through Windows XP (well, Vista, but not by choice). During the day I am a Windows 2003 web developer using Visual Studio 2008 and Adobe Flex Builder/ActionScript.

My first Apple experience was with the IIe and it was not good. A word processor that ate HOURS of my wife's work. Probably a misplaced pointer reference but the work was gone. A floppy drive that blew a hole in a chip in the drive. My first professional association with Apple came with System 6 and System 7. Did a little bit with System 9 while diagnosing browsers isseus with IE 5.5 ( a Mac only bug in the JavaScript engine).

Apple, in the past, has produced some duds. The Lisa (possible SP error there) was a dud. I consider the IIc a dud. But we can count a lot more duds for MS: WinME (some say 98SE but I liked it well enough) and Vista are the 2 most visible. Trust me, both companies have enough duds in their closets to keep us busy for a LONG time.

But when my wife switched from Windows to OS X it was a life changing event, at least for her with her visual disabilities. MS does not even compare. Looking at how Apple generally treats their customers tells me I prefer to deal with Apple than Microsoft.

But your mileage may vary.

Take care,

...To be honest I had faith in Apple because they usually hit a home run every time. That's why I upgraded with high hopes because Apple's track record is very good. It's just too bad that Snow Leopard is one of their duds, again unless you have the newest in hardware.

Question please. Are there any plug-ins or add-ons running in Mail for you? I had one but removed it prior to the upgrade. It was no longer supported and I anticipated it causing problems.

& I'm sick of all the b*tching by people with no problems blaming everyone and everything except Apple for SL issues. Ces't la vie.

I've had problems with Mail since going to SL on my 24" iMac. Generally I can only exit by using force quit.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I disagree completely. Rosetta is the technology which should make the drivers work. It doesn't, thus being stuck with Gutenprint in 10.6.

Rosetta has nothing to do with Drivers. Drivers NEED to be matched to the architecture of the Computer (PPC/Intel) and the Kernel (PPC/X86/X64) of the OS it's running on.

One of the biggest criticisms of Vista wasn't Microsoft's fault. It was a lack of suitable drivers. That was entirely down to the hardware vendors. The same is true of Snow Leopard

Rosetta is a software emulation of some of the features of the PPC command set in OS X. It gives a limited emulation which allows SOME applications to work.

Please stop bleating on at Apple and go and kick off at Epson who should support their hardware properly. If they claim their drivers are 10.6 compatible then they should fully work with the version of CUPS supplied with 10.6, They should also be written for Intel Macs and run on both 32 bit and 64 bit kernels.

 

[SaSaSushi]

Microsoft wished they own 40% of Apple. Then they wouldn't suck 100%, but only 60%.

That's because Microsoft is a professional company - they don't need to ridicule other products to promote their own stuff.

I want to take a moment to thank both of you partisans for going the extra mile to actually name yourselves SnowLeopard2008 and Winni and removing all doubts whatsoever regarding your agendas before even reading your posts. Winni goes so far as to basically sum up his mission statement in his tagline

If you're willing to go that far for your craft then I say it's fine to be a fanboy.

The ones that get under my skin are those that pretend to be free-minded independent thinkers.

 

[ABG]

Question please. Are there any plug-ins or add-ons running in Mail for you? I had one but removed it prior to the upgrade. It was no longer supported and I anticipated it causing problems.

The only add-on I use is Spamsieve but updated it with the SL update.

 

[deputy_doofy]

because microsoft owns 40% of apple, every apple product you buy, ms gets 40%

I see this myth still persists. Stop watching PoSV. This is untrue. Geez...

I'm torn on this thread. I like SL a lot, BUT... I didn't like the upgrade process, which hosed my Leopard install. It seemed to successfully upgrade, but then my home folder no longer worked. I had to back up all files (yeah, yeah, I suppose I should have done that anyway), reformat, and reinstall. Thankfully, 90% of my stuff was saved and it was the impetus to buying an external drive and finally using Time Machine.

However, my 10.5.x OS ran slower and crappier than everyone else's, so I can't help wonder if that caused my issue.

That said, the only complaint I have is superficial — I'd rather SL report the hard drives in base 2 (hard drive manufacturers should be converting to base 2).

 

[cjmillsnun]

I see this myth still persists. Stop watching PoSV. This is untrue. Geez...

I don't even think PoSV mentioned 40%...

IIRC they bout 0.04% in non voting stock, converted to ordinary stock 3 years later and sold it.

 

[Keleko]

There are two factors at work here. The first is compatibility with older software and hardware. The second is the ability to move forward with new OS and hardware technology. Snow Leopard is Apple's move toward the latter. Unfortunately when doing so, they are forced to lose some of the compatibility.

This is the problem that plagued MS with Vista. Vista was the same break with the old to support the new, and they blew it with the hardware compatibility. It took way too long for manufacturers to provide new drivers that worked with Vista, and in a lot of cases you just had to buy new hardware. And that's why so few people moved to Vista. However, with Windows 7 MS made a bigger effort to get support ready. And they didn't change the driver model from Vista, so Vista compatible hardware usually works. It has been long enough that people are starting to be more willing to replace their old hardware with Windows 7 compatible stuff.

This is what Apple is going through now, though not as poorly as MS did with Vista. Snow Leopard did not require much greater hardware than Leopard did, unlike Vista's requirements over XP. A 3 year old Mac can happily run Snow Leopard today. However, if you're using software that doesn't work well on Snow Leopard, you either have to upgrade it or stop using it and find something else. There is plenty of software that doesn't work on Vista/Windows 7 that did on XP. MS even has web pages that list such software, and recommendations of replacements or "stop using it" (like stop using Lotus Notes and use Exchange...).

So one choice is to upgrade your software and hardware to some that is compatible with Snow Leopard. If you wish to keep using Snow Leopard, that is the only choice. The other choice is to keep using the software and hardware that you have. It looks like you have to stay with Leopard to do that because that software and hardware fall on the "wrong side" of the clean break Apple has made. This is the same choice the majority of people made when it came to XP vs Vista.

So, until you are ready to upgrade your hardware and software for Snow Leopard, you do have a workable setup with Leopard. It is quite a stable and well running setup, too, so be happy with it.

 

[deputy_doofy]

I don't even think PoSV mentioned 40%...

IIRC they bout 0.04% in non voting stock, converted to ordinary stock 3 years later and sold it.

No, it didn't mention 40%, but the movie left the impression that MS owned Apple after the 1997 agreement. That was the only real problem with the movie, considering I know movies about "real stuff" are changed for dramatic purposes.

 

[HLdan]

No, it didn't mention 40%, but the movie left the impression that MS owned Apple after the 1997 agreement. That was the only real problem with the movie, considering I know movies about "real stuff" are changed for dramatic purposes.

I have that movie and watched it several times and there was no impression left that MS owned Apple at that time or any time. Not sure where you got that impression in the movie.

 

[deputy_doofy]

I have that movie and watched it several times and there was no impression left that MS owned Apple at that time or any time. Not sure where you got that impression in the movie.

I just fired up the movie. It says on the screen, "Microsoft now owns part of Apple Computer." This the scene at the end where Gates is on the big monitor, the movie freezes, and is about to roll credits. This is extremely misleading.

 

[HLdan]

I just fired up the movie. It says on the screen, "Microsoft now owns part of Apple Computer." This the scene at the end where Gates is on the big monitor, the movie freezes, and is about to roll credits. This is extremely misleading.

Fair enough, I'm at work, I don't have access to the movie for verification but you do realize that event took place more than 10 years ago and Apple has billions of spending money in the bank. Do you honestly think that after all this time Apple didn't buy back the non-voting shares from MS? Misleading or not, there's a certain level of common sense needs to be used at this point, Apple is no longer a small company.

 

[deputy_doofy]

Fair enough, I'm at work, I don't have access to the movie for verification but you do realize that event took place more than 10 years ago and Apple has billions of spending money in the bank. Do you honestly think that after all this time Apple didn't buy back the non-voting shares from MS? Misleading or not, there's a certain level of common sense needs to be used at this point, Apple is no longer a small company.

But the point I was making is that, like the guy I was responding to, some people still believe MS owns Apple and every profit Apple makes is really to MS. PoSV probably helped with that thinking.