Sir_Giggles said:
This headless iMac has GOT TO BE expandable. You got to give consumers a reason to care. Expandable graphics, HD and memory. And I think $499 is reasonable, considering a iPod photo costs about the same.
Cheap enough, I might just get one myself and use it as a server or media centre PC.
::screeeeeech::
No, no, no. No offense, but wrong. It doesn't need to be expandable more than RAM really. At $499 it's a minimal profit modular machine based on older specs/hardware (i.e. eMac/iMac G4/iBook/Powerbook) that has a good design that suits it's intended purpose. It's not going to have a G5 (initially), but eventually it will find a G5 inside in a few revisions... likely a 1.6-1.8 Ghz. model and a iMac G5-based architecture with soldered in graphics around the time the G5's are at 2-2.5 Ghz. for the base.
Apple could do well to offer a similarly devised G5 version with better graphics and specs based off of the iMac G5 architecture that could work as a low-end server or budget-rate intermediate desktop (say... $899-1,099; counting on at least a $200+ profit per machine by axeing the LCD's which has to be palatable to Steve Jobs' tastes; can cut tighter if he "wants" to on margins). Once again though, this will *NOT* be a Pro desktop. It's a consumer model that's geared to be cheaper. Even a slimline G5 wouldn't be upgradable. That's where the G5 single processor tower comes in, along with the dual processor towers. The iMac isn't upgradable... never has been really.
Gaming rigs are more like workstations, and that's exactly what your High End G5's are. I know a lot of people keep arguing "But I can build a PC for a lot less that plays <game name here>" but the fact is, look at what Dell and Alienware and the rest sell as Gamer's boxes? They're all high-end, top shelf, and cost a mint. Yes you can play games on a lesser box... but Apple isn't in the PC market of making 40 different available configs. It's not cost-effective. It won't happen.
Not that the Mac is a major gamer's platform anyhow to begin with. If you want a gaming box... either 1) buy a PC for the task, or 2) buy a console. Until Apple sells enough boxes like these to make the marketshare viable, your not going to see games en masse nor gaming conceived hardware configurations that aren't a G5 Pro Desktop. Not that piracy concerns hasn't hamstrung the release of new PC games as it is. A lot of gaming franchises now are becoming almost exclusively console-related for this reason.
So while I can see a higher end G5 iMac-based version of a thin client like what has been said (said this on Applenova's board eons ago)... there's little point for the low-end to be upgradable when Apple's likely to be cutting them out at tight margins and wanting you to use it, and ship it out and buy a new one in a few months. A sub-$500 desktop cuts in on the used Mac market. Right now you're hard pressed to find a 733 Mhz. QuickSilver G4 for less than $500 on eBay, even the DA Graphite 733 is selling for $519-549 depending on config. That's a
USED machine people. No option for Applecare. A lot of risks and ::finger-crossing:: involved.
As far as the argument about monitors...
Horsehockey! LoL Even if you count tax + shipping on one of these, it's 2x's the speed of an eBay bought
USED machine and I can put whatever monitor on it I want whenever I want to. I can throw a $99 19" PC CRT monitor. I can buy a $23" Apple Cinema. I can buy one, and upgrade to the other one later at my leisure as I can afford to, which also later helps me when I decide I want a G5 desktop or another G5-based version of one of these low-end single processor slimline boxes.
It's INGENIOUS. It's a much better value per $!
I've got a PC friend that would love to get a cheap Mac. When I show him the costs of used PowerMacs + the Mhz. count... he freaks out. Where $400 can buy you a brand new cheap PC... on the Mac it buys you... used... more than 2-3 years old used at that! A 733 Mhz. Quicksilver at $600-800 used is flat-out robbery (price the same machines as refurb and you're better off buying a NEW G5!!).
Now that Apple is potentially shipping a *BRAND NEW* APP eligible $499 machine that's nearly 2x's as fast as said Quicksilver... why bother with used?!? They can both use
the same monitors. The bus speeds are similar unless Apple foolishly hamstrings it (I doubt it), and while it's not as upgradable... how upgradable do you really need to be in one of these? If I wanted bleeding edge and max upgradability I'd be ordering a G5 (and that's still tempting with the single 1.8's but still, that's likely 8 months or more away for me). I don't have the $ at this time so a G4 of one of these is a definite consideration. I know that asking for anything more isn't doing Apple any favors, will cost more per unit to produce, and cuts their margins (Apple has always played on higher margins, to ask them to even make a machine like this one has been "TOUGH" to negotiate). The Cube failed because it was trying to be a fetish item rather than a usable low-cost or lower-cost computer. At it's pricepoint it was a failure because it wasn't a
value as much as a sexy design, and design alone "FAILED" to sell it en masse... if sold at 1/2-2/3 of a Pro G4 desktop's tag it would've been a success, but it sold at roughly 90-110% of the much more upgradable desktop's tag!!
Hell I'm on a 700 Mhz. Sonnet equipped 9600 and I find my machine at this juncture usable! If Apple had put out something like the above machine's specs on the market 18 months ago (with less processor of course at that stage) I guarantee I'd *NOT* be on my 9600 today. If they don't do it now... I won't be on "NEW" Apple hardware in another 6-8 months at the very least, if not considerably longer.
Used machine sales don't directly guarantee a new profitable Apple sale, the $ purchased doesn't go into Apple's pocket directly or even guaranteed indirectly. This ::noting above machine specs:: will. Even if the profits are "minimal" per machine Apple sells... it'll be more than nothing and it'll cut the costs of used machines substantially because the supply vs. demand will shift. All of the above will likely increase Apple's marketshare.
I'm not saying Apple needs to bleed themselves dry to make this a success... at $499 I'm sure they're going to make a nice profit per machine. It might not be as hefty a profit as a G5 desktop... but it'll be something they're not getting right now. It's not about Apple building a $299 PC. It's about Apple coming "close enough" to 1) remain profitable per unit and 2) increase overall Mac OS X penetration. Their closest option to a $3-499 PC that often comes with monitor, is a $799 eMac where you're locked into a 17" monitor. Want to use a 19" CRT, an existing PC 19" monitor you have lying around? Want to hook a Mac up to a KVM that includes your PC monitor, keyboard, and mouse? You're buying a G5 at $1499, or a used Mac at highway robbery pricepoints.
At least... until now (presuming this holds true).
As far as upgradability... if it's got Firewire (for external drives), and USB (preferrably USB 2 if they can make that happen)... maybe Bluetooth... it's set. You don't need much more than that. Any drives you need to add... can all be done via Firewire 400 or USB 2. Printers... via USB and Bluetooth. Scanners... Firewire or USB. Beyond that... as long as you can stuff in a Gig of RAM, add hard drives (Firewire or USB2), and add a DVD Burner (maybe as a BTO Superdrive version for $529 [which I'd even jump for], or an external Firewire [i.e. Lacie]). You're set. That's all this box needs. Anything else is people wanting Apple to give them the farm, the keys to the new John Deere, and enough money to sustain a Woodstock-like party with on the grounds. Apple won't do this type of machine unless they can make a profit. They (assuming they build it) will cut corners, initially, and add configs. at specific pricepoints as demand warrants/begs. I guarantee if Apple builds these en masse, the costs of Mac's will drop and more and better configs will come. It's just the law of supply and demand and costs of production at work. Apple machines cost $ to build because they're built in less supply and based off of proprietary motherboards that Foxconn doesn't just ship out to everybody for OEM usage as well as sell variants in their own boxes at Fry's and other BYO machine retailers.
I just hope they do it.
I can guarantee at least 1 sale now (considering I've been shopping G4's on eBay of late, Christmas put a hefty dent in my G5 fund), if not 2 in the next 18 months. Build it Apple... and they will come.
