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andrebsd said:
Well personaly in my own opinion, id never want to see something like that hit the shelf... I've always seen Apple computers as high end, expensive and I guess you could say exotic like a nice Porsche. For me personaly, having a product at that price range would be like Porsche making a car thats as cheap as a toyota. Good for the company? probibly, but I think that ruins the whole exotic idea.

Although I think the implications of your attitude are potentially quite offensive, we're all entitled to our opinions, and I won't knock yours. But as for me, although I don't drive a luxury vehicle, I would like to think that, were I to own a Porsche, I would wish that everyone could be able to enjoy the superior driving experience.

I feel the same way about computing.
 
AdamZ said:
Enough. But when I turn out to be right, you owe me one of the devices. Come on guys all the parts are there and it all fits into place. This DVR will eventually provide content to feed that stupid concept of a Video iPod. Jobs and Phil have spoken so much about TV's and all the clutter behind them.

I don't know, I took what Steve Jobs was saying to mean that TV functionality should never be integrated with a computer and if you want to tape something you should use your brain and set the VCR to do it. I don't think he gets the whole HTPC/PVR phenomenon and it is well known that he hates TV anyway. At one time they were working with Tivo for music and photo sharing but it seems Tivo is starting to fade into oblivion now. The PVRs that cable companies are providing are quickly surpasing them. I think once Blu-Ray recorders start hiting the market the HTPC/PVR idea will start to fade anyway. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I wouldn't mind having one. I just don't think he cares for this niche.
 
Waitin' on 10.4

Take it to the bank: this will only ship with 10.4 -- they will ship the same day, March 24.

My thoughts: The speed benefit from 10.4 will be necessary for this box not to seem ridiculously slow, even if marketed to those who just need the "basics". Plus, Apple's been waiting for a truly stable, polished version of OS X before launching an all-out effort to convert Windows users.

10.3 is stable but still has networking issues and a barn full of bugs. Their "switch" campaign was just a tester. With 10.4 everything is in place: huge brand recognition with iPod making Apple synonymous with hip, quality, and style; years of real-world beta testing of OS X; and mountainous dissatisfaction with Microsoft. And now finally, a reasonable price-point for the zillions of consumers who are buy-curious, but can't imagine spending a grand on an e-mail box.
 
I would be really interested in a small computer like this if it could be connected to the TV + wireless mouse and keyboard.
Internet, pictures, movies, games... All you have on your computer on your TV. Is'nt this what Steve has been talking about? You know, all in one place. Is'nt this the point of iLife? :)
 
Awimoway said:
Although I think the implications of your attitude are potentially quite offensive, we're all entitled to our opinions, and I won't knock yours. But as for me, although I don't drive a luxury vehicle, I would like to think that, were I to own a Porsche, I would wish that everyone could be able to enjoy the superior driving experience.

I feel the same way about computing.

Sure, for driving it would be nice to all have the same car experience (not nessisarly the same car though)... but I also feel as though with computers, if to many people are to use Apple systems you start to get problems like pc's have. You'll get viruses being made, you'll get the people that try to start destroying it and you'll get the whole thing where theres 100 programs from different people that do the exact same thing.

I just like Apple the way it is right now, maybe they don't have a super huge market share or the most users, but I think thats nice... personaly I don't want the device that everyone uses. Apple says "Think different"... well I want to be different; So I choose a mac.

If everyone started using a mac, id try to find something else even though the software would probibly end up keeping me since final cut pro doesn't run on anything else.
 
iJon said:
I don't know if we will see a SuperDrive as BTO. Right now I see it kind of hard and here why. Lets assume rumors are correct and we get a G5 eMac for about 799. A SuperDrive BTO would add $200 dollars to the price. Then you would be comparing a SuperDrive G4 to a Combo drive, G5 and a screen. It just seems all the BTO options would detract from will make this machine great. This just all seems a little off cause I am picturing everything in my head, we will just have to wait and see.

jon


You know, "Superdrives" dont cost $200...
 
I believe the eMac is going to see the end of its life and this new iMac mini is going to replace it.

This about it Apple has no reason to buy CRT other than the eMac, discontinue the eMac line offer something similar without the CRT, tie it in with the iMac and iPod and you have a nice machine that fit, for Educational, Schools, Students, Small Business, Home Users, Media Centers and so forth.

People who say 1.25GHz is not fast are crazy this is not a great speed for the price. This is be the iBooks internals without a battery, an LCD screen, touch pad, and keyboard. It might even be thinner than the iBook.

One can bet that AEC card will be included with a BT optional or tossed in for good measure.

You can buy cheap lcd screens and crt's from anywhere what is the point of competing and introducing a 15" LCD all over again or even a 17" for that matter.

eMac = RIP

iMac mini = new educational system. :)
 
Hopefully they can back this up with some good software, like Appleworks X!!!

I go on, I know.
 
AdamZ said:
Enough. But when I turn out to be right, you owe me one of the devices. Come on guys all the parts are there and it all fits into place. This DVR will eventually provide content to feed that stupid concept of a Video iPod. Jobs and Phil have spoken so much about TV's and all the clutter behind them.

So does that presume that there's an OS X Media Center Edition?

LoL

I don't think so man. At least not at this stage. Maybe a few months after shipping as a build-on Tiger feature, but Apple hasn't noted of any plans for a Media-based OS. There's been no talk of anything like this being rolled into OS X. Not to mention... wouldn't it have a Superdrive built-in like the other DVR's that are shipping do that come bundled with TiVO, or the Media Center PC's that have Dual-Layer DVD drives available?!? ::scratchin' chin::

I don't see Apple tackling this *RIGHT NOW*... I could be wrong, but if they do... it likely would come built on a foundation similar to these specs that has a Superdrive in the list. If ThinkSecret is on with the specs... a lowly CD-RW in a unit gunning against TiVO's and Media Center PC's?!? I would presume it would have a SuperDrive, come with iTunes and iMovie integrated, likely some channel recording software that's similar to a TiVO box, and likely iDVD. The pieces are there... but where's the pretty simplified interface wrapper to wrap it in (think OS 9's "Simple Finder" or Media Center's interface as an example) that anybody can dive into? OS X is nice, but even it is too much for a lot of people that are used to "appliances". That's why Media Center's interface is simplified more.

Apple has the prowess to do it... no question. This machine lacks the specs to do it all as necessary. Even so, I think this machine if given a Superdrive and a patched up version of Panther (or maybe months later on Tiger) with a media-based interface that's easier for appliance-based users to decipher (think TiVO) than just trying to teach everyone to be a computer user out of the gates would work. It's just not going to happen with a CD-RW. LoL

Even so... nothing says that if/when Apple produces a machine like this, that it can't serve a dual-function purpose. It can be a low-end Mac, or a settop box. Either/or, or both. In fact doing so would likely mean even more sales of Apple units. They can hook into ::gasp:: Apple TV's, other companie's TV's, or even Apple or 3rd party monitors (which maybe... they're going to re-release a 15" and 17" monitor?).

I guess we'll have to wait and see...
 
Awimoway said:
Although I think the implications of your attitude are potentially quite offensive, we're all entitled to our opinions, and I won't knock yours. But as for me, although I don't drive a luxury vehicle, I would like to think that, were I to own a Porsche, I would wish that everyone could be able to enjoy the superior driving experience.

I feel the same way about computing.

In addition, you can't confuse price with quality. If your idea of a superior product is a high price tag, then you won't like this new computer. But there are examples of great design and poor design at all price points.

The car analogies are done to death, but if you want to compare this machine to anything, you can compare it to the Mini, which is a great handling little machine for a low price. Heck, it's even underpowered like this Mac, and has the "Mini" name! ;)
 
jadam said:
You know, "Superdrives" dont cost $200...

Why not price a SuperDrive they cost about 80 USD, a combo drive cost 50 USD might be cheaper now with holiday sales.

The only reason they put in a Combo is because more people burn CD's than DVD's since it takes way to long at present at 4x even 8x. I do not see it getting anything higher than an 8x if they have a BTO.

Dual layer burners cost upwards of 100+ USD.
 
Not gonna happen if you ask me. Hoax. Though it propably would be a huge success if it turns out to be fairly reliable. It only lacks a DVD writer.
 
andrebsd said:
Sure, for driving it would be nice to all have the same car experience (not nessisarly the same car though)... but I also feel as though with computers, if to many people are to use Apple systems you start to get problems like pc's have. You'll get viruses being made, you'll get the people that try to start destroying it and you'll get the whole thing where theres 100 programs from different people that do the exact same thing.

I just like Apple the way it is right now, maybe they don't have a super huge market share or the most users, but I think thats nice... personaly I don't want the device that everyone uses. Apple says "Think different"... well I want to be different; So I choose a mac.

Well viruses will be a problem, but my impression is that OS X is overall a more secure system than Windows (the absence of Outlook alone is a big difference), so I'm not too worried.

As for most other issues, I would rather live in a world where hardware and software are more compatible with OS X. I would rather live in a world where the average kiosk or workplace computer is running OS X.

It may be true that, were OS X to gain a lot of marketshare, it might lose some of its virtues, but I think it would pick up a lot of new ones.
 
madmaxmedia said:
The iBook is similarly spec'ed and is one of Apple's best sellers. A desktop should be better spec'ed than a notebook, but if this machine is $499 then it is really really cheap for Apple as it is. We'll see what the final specs are I guess (if this machine actually comes out! :) .)

Ibooks, powerbooks (12") sell because there is no 12" laptop at that price range untill very recently (dell 700m etc). Most of the time laptops are mainly used for giving presentations, websurfing etc that not really platform specific! Exclusiveness in a market segment is the key to ibook success. i am not saying that they being cute is hurting them either. allowing people to customize the stuff for their needs definitely helps. As a small example i donot have to buy Dell XPS to get a gaming machine. A 4700/8400 + good 200$ graphics card would be fine and a lot less. Dell is not forcing me to take that Gaming machine down the throat. letting the end user costomize what he wants is some thing parallel to listening to the customer; Apple has a much more top-down kind of an approach where you need to fit into their offereings.
 
Recording Television is not a niche!

TWinbrook46636 said:
I don't know, I took what Steve Jobs was saying to mean that TV functionality should never be integrated with a computer and if you want to tape something you should use your brain and set the VCR to do it. I don't think he gets the whole HTPC/PVR phenomenon and it is well known that he hates TV anyway. At one time they were working with Tivo for music and photo sharing but it seems Tivo is starting to fade into oblivion now. The PVRs that cable companies are providing are quickly surpasing them. I think once Blu-Ray recorders start hiting the market the HTPC/PVR idea will start to fade anyway. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I wouldn't mind having one. I just don't think he cares for this niche.

VCR's on on the outs man, let's all take a hit of digital. Digital Hub I mean. Just wait and see. #1 Record live television, (who wants to take up sys resources doing that on their Powerbook. As Steve said "We want DVR's built right into the gosh darn TV!" #2 Stream Music and Photos from any of the in house Macs, #3 Use to WATCH TV on your Mac. I got an old 15in iMac in the bedroom, connect via firewire. The replacement for Elgato Firewire device. Let's all be really forward thinking now. They pulled the darn quicktime stream!! Just watched it last week!
 
The "iCentre" concept design is loosing one factor it has an exhaust slot on the top like the iMac G5 however it has no intake might not need one since it running cool all it might need is a small silent fan with a side or back vent for intake at the bottom.

And Apple claimed the iMac G5 was more silent than a whisper. :)
 
iJon said:
I can't see Apple releasing this computer without some RAM expandability. It will probably be one of two things. 256 soldered to the logic board with 1 free slot for a total of 1.25 or two replaceable slots, one being filled by most likely a 256, total storage of 2 gigs.

jon

That's true, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. However, just because they keep that ability doesn't mean that a significant portion of the target market is going to use that ability unless they do it BTO.

~J

"Jons of the world, cast off your 'h's!"

Edit: IVIIVI4ck3y27 actually brought up a really good point, and I am now praying that they do not introduce this. If they do, the resale value of old Macs will crash through the floor.
 
Wow Apple.. way to go, yeh.. great idea. Let's sell a machine that has our old slow cpu and a tiny amount of ram to the switchers. Yeh, that'll keep 'em coming back for more. (sarcasm)

Seriously, why not take a bit of a hit on the profit margin and include 512mb of ram?? I mean what's wrong with Apple in the ram department? The base is always lacking.

I'm interested to see how small they can make it... but I'm not sold on the idea.

:cool:
 
budugu said:
Ibooks, powerbooks (12") sell because there is no 12" laptop at that price range untill very recently (dell 700m etc). Most of the time laptops are mainly used for giving presentations, websurfing etc that not really platform specific! Exclusiveness in a market segment is the key to ibook success. i am not saying that they being cute is hurting them either. allowing people to customize the stuff for their needs definitely helps. As a small example i donot have to buy Dell XPS to get a gaming machine. A 4700/8400 + good 200$ graphics card would be fine and a lot less. Dell is not forcing me to take that Gaming machine down the throat. letting the end user costomize what he wants is some thing parallel to listening to the customer; Apple has a much more top-down kind of an approach where you need to fit into their offereings.

Yes but that's part of going the Apple route. They've built machines with soldered in processors and video in the past when PC manufacturers were building stuff out of a modular bucket of parts that were built in large factories in China by subcontractors that plug into industry standard sockets. Apple is about making healthy margins per component, and their customer-base will support that because they support Apple's existence regardless of whether or not their hardware at every pricepoint is bleeding edge. That's not the issue at all. The issue is the user experience as Apple gives it to them, with the performance that they're given to work with. The only people that compare the 2 are people who cross shop or are platform agnostic, and that is a smaller group. Some Mac users do know that the PC's are faster in some key areas... but they know that having to run Spybot on a daily basis is also not their cup of tea either, and being sold down the river to 1 OS vendor that controls the whole kit and kaboodle and fires off draconian tactics, or another OS that's open-source, widely available, not quite as polished, and lacking in certain key applications is their 2 roadmaps to deal with.

Both sides have pro's and con's... I can build a cheap PC that's a gaming powerhouse. Correct. Yet... I can't build a Mac out of spare parts. Apple's days of that being a dream died the minute Jobs told Motorola to take their CHRP-based clones and shove 'em. Get used to it... because it aiiiiiiiiiiin't comin' back m'friend. It wouldn't have lasted long anyhow. Apple would've died. End of story. Jobs did what he had to do, whether he wanted to do it or not (I tend to think so) is something you'll have to take up with him.

Apple can't and won't compete with PC's at the BTO-level the PC manufacturers can sustain. There's far more parts created for the PC to do this, and they're available at dirt cheap pricings with tight margins. The fact that the Mac's endian-ness + driver support aren't there for every single PC add-on card under the sun puts it in a position where it makes due with what it can. Apple can invest into areas where it sees a need... but you can't expect them to match what's available on the open seas of PC-dom. Whereas Dell, Gateway, HP/Compaq, eMachines, et al. can tap into a huge sea of available hardware options, and present them in guise that is compatible with their OS. For anyone that's tried to boot Mac OS of any variety on a non-Apple spec'ed optical drive... you tell me the success you've had? ;)

In fact... high margins are the Apple way. The more Apple can eek out of you, the more likely you are to see a product surface. I think it's only been the iPod that's slowly starting to change this philosophy some as they see what marketshare can and does mean. I think that with Apple's reserve from mass leadership in the handheld audio market, that they're going to do what they can to build the marketshare up in the Mac market by a slightly more cut-rate machine. I guarantee though they won't play toe to toe with the marginless badboys at the bottom of the barrel with the speculated machine of record in this thread, and they'll be smart if they don't. Comparing the low-end Mac to the low-end PC is like Apple's to well... oranges. ;) Yet the difference between the person intrigued by some variety in their diet comes down to how cheap said Apple's are in comparison to said oranges. I think $499 is close enough to whet their appetites. ;) Might just give them enough fodder to "Think Different" for a change.
 
I know this is very forward thinking but imagine Apple becomes like Micro$oft, and everyone hates it because it becomes a monopoly. :(

Just Kidding I have much faith in Steve. :)
 
sjpetry said:
I wonder what the name will be for the headless Mac? :cool:

iHeadless ??


Actually, I'll say it again, the availability of an Apple-branded display that could fit in this price range is the critical factor as to whether this rumor is true or not. Apple isn't going to want a novice user to leave the Apple store without a complete system. Also, I think the $500 price point only becomes compelling if it includes a GPU that will support Tiger's hardware-accelerated Core Image. That means at least a GeForceFX 5200 Ultra (same as in the G5 iMac -- okay, gamers can now start complaining). However, we can't hope for any more than that unless they upgrade the G5 iMac at the same time.

I think the eMac will stay in the lineup (if for nothing else other than the education market). However, it would be nice if Apple could produce a sub-1000 dollar G5-based product (that being, obviously, a G5 eMac).
 
If this is all true, the hype would make it sound like a nice solution for many folks.

Realisticly when was the last time that rumors of new systems had the right pricepoints to the dollar? My previous experience with such rumors seems that the pricing is always off by one or two hundred. Also one has to wonder about where the eMac and iMac line fall into this. eMac's are probably on their way out finally. iMacs are going to likely take a hit in sales unless price or heavy feature changes occur. The price gap *if* the rumors are true will be too great.

Basically thus far it sounds a bit like a laptop without the screen. Speaking of which if they use the same cpu as their lowend laptops, they could drive demand of the cpu's so that they can order from their supplier at cheaper prices.

Even with all of this the marketing will still need to come to the rescue with some sort of niche marketing scheme which will probably be to ipod users...possibly some specific ipod/itunes solution. I say this because it's not hard to purchase decent, fast pc's for under $499. I know there are many Dell bashers here but sales and marketing are what matter and Apple will have their hands full if they really are going to compete in this price range. Leveraging the ipod and itunes is just about their only chance of making this successful for the long run.

At any rate I'll certainly have my eye open to see if this truly comes about. If it's tiny enough, I'd imagine there'll be some linux dweebs interested in this as well.
 
jadam said:
You know, "Superdrives" dont cost $200...
Assuming Apple uses a laptop form factor, presumably the iBook for factor it will. The difference between the two 14" iBooks is $200 dollars. The difference between the two 12" Powerbooks is $200 dollars. Go to the Apple Store and look at the $1999 15" Powerbook and add a superdrive, a $200 increase.

jon
 
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