$499 Headless iMac?

[deevey]

So very true. Working in a PC environment, I love to take on the Mac challengers.

What is really interesting, is seeing the lightbulbs go on as I show them how the Mac is integrated and easy to use.

I demo with my PB15. I start up 6 or so QT videos to play at once while using PP, Word and a few other apps. You know, things you can't do with a PC.

Of course I love to show off the multi language support that OS X has built in. That usually gets some significant jaw impressions!

...and I make sure that Word, PowerPoint and Excel are running. Totally amazes most PC folks as most say they heard that Mac will not run these apps. Of course the internet and e-mail are other ones that I demo since many believe that the Mac cannot do these tasks.

Force Quit is another jaw dropper. It simply works, unlike the various Windows task managers.

Better again fire up XP in VPC on a dual monitor, ibook and then for good measure open 95 and 98 in separate windows on the panther desktop .... seen some sour faces at that one (yeah it does kinda crawl, good effect though).

Cant wait to see if these rumors pan out...i'll take my place on the back of the Q thank you very much... looking for a cheap machine I can leave at home, and yup have a screen already ...

It'd be nice if they offered a 12' LCD screen, would think it'd be the cheapest and keeping with the mini form factor n' all

 

[deevey]

1 - No fan. No blowers. No noise. Quiet.

2 - Support for booting from large external FireWire disks (500 GB single-disk units just released by Seagate). Even a hard disk-less Mac would be great for us.

3 - Support for the large Apple Cinema Displays. We are pro users and require large displays. But do not want the noisy, bulky and expensive PowerMac G5 towers. For us it is most important a quiet headless Mac, even with a G4 (remember the cube) than a noisy G5. We plan to renew the headless Macs every year or so. And we do not want the all-in-one solution (iMac G5) because we want to purchase and keep expensive displays for years. We want to renew the headless part every year; not the display.

4 - Support for at least for 1 GB RAM.

5 - Analog and digital audio/video in/out.

6 - If possible, radio tuner.

7 - If possible, video tuner.

8 - If possible, at lease 256 VRAM.

9.-If possible, frontal connectors.

10.-If possible, connectors for SATA (2), FireWire 800 (4) & USB 2 (4).

Such machine would rock and expand Apple market share for sure.

Forgot the cappucino machine ... that'd sell me for sure ... even a windows box with one.... *shakes uncontrollably*

 

[rdowns]

People you know apple better than that, do you actually think that apple wants to get into the commodity market against other pc's. They would loose sales to imac's and emac's and I don't think they want that to happen. It's very wishful thinking but it won't happen. OS/x is getting bigger and better and I doubt that a 1.25 g4 will be able to keep up with the new os as well. The only cheap mac available is an emac, take it or leave (steve jobs would say).

I think the reason Apple hasn't released a low cost Mac to date is precisely the reason you state, they were afraid of cannibalizing higher margin sales. However, the market is now different due to the huge success of the iPod. Previously, the switcher campaign was merely some wet dream by a marketing type in Cupertino. Now with so many Windows users using the iPod, the time is right for a low cost Mac. Sure, it will take away some emac and iMac sales but there really is a market for switchers now.

 

[takao]

You should never buy such a computer... if it had an image of Zeta Jones on the other hand...

let's wait till the 11.

But I agree that form always should follow function - so I too will go with your priorities. I would say that Apple actually is pretty good at this (as is also Sony and to a degree IBM (on its laptops) and HP).

don't get me started on sony.. while on looks they have good designs sometimes the stuff they are doing inside of the cases are horrible at least with their PCs ...sure they are perhaps making the best TVs out and good sound equipment but their PCs are beyond discussion

my sister worked in a sony vaio promotion in december and i printed out some promotion stuff for her ..sony _seriously_ claims that 4200 rpm hard disks are better than 5400 or 7200 drives and such stuff

last year their repair service for laptops scored _last_ together with gericom (their laptops already look broken on pictures for ads etc.) out of 10 laptop manufactures (best 3: IBM,Apple,Acer)

The great thing with the diversity of solutions is that each fits to certain preferences; as Apple computers don't fit anyone, neither does most other brands. And form IS a big factor - especially now that PCs are moving in with the rest of the livingroom equipment. I know people that have bought Apple just because it was the only PC that "fit"... (there are people like that... of course I would say they have their priorities mixed up... but as long as they choose Apple

However - at least there should be some form to the function...

so far i (personally) haven't noticed much movement to the livingroom on the x86 side of PCs (i don't know anybody personally) ... but on the other side the numbers of housholds with multiple PCs seems to get bigger and bigger

because of this i think this rumoured 500-600$ apple might have fantastic chances
our family alone is i nthe market of _2_ new desktops: i want a new desktop for at home because at the moment i'm stuck on the family computer because my personal PC is sitting in the town i'm studying (my budget:800€ but i can squeeze out more if needed)
and my younger "mr -i'm-not-careful-around-the-internet" brother wants a new computer for himself because he is not happy that the old P 166 can't run iTunes (his budget: 500-700€ max)
screens are available for us both

[edit]: also consider that the people on this forum is not exactly in the target group for all things Apple make - as was apparently the case with the iPod mini...

yesterday at the sylvester party at a party i asked a friend of mine: "have you heard that rumour about that 500$ ..." i didn't need to finished my question within seconds we were discussing (very enthusiastic BTW) how many people we knew who would be in the "target group" and that we both would buy one if released

i would say if you can "win" the "being asked for advise on buying a new PC" guys like we two are (and neither of us ever owned any apple hardware) with a _rumour_ alone then i would dare to say that the sale numbers gonna be good....really good

 

[Sir_Giggles]

6 - If possible, radio tuner.

7 - If possible, video tuner.

8 - If possible, at lease 256 VRAM.

LOL. And this possibly for corporate users? Must I pull you through that thick curtain of marijuana smoke into reality?

 

[Sir_Giggles]

Someone might know better, but Think Secret seldom makes such a definitive prediction that doesn't come true.

Didn't TS predict that the iPod mini would see for $99? I wasn't sure, but when SJ made the price announcement at MWSF, I think you heard air sucking out of the room by the audience. I know I went into convulsive spasms and havent quite fully recovered.

 

[BillD222]

that includes Windows XP Home, as mentioned.
Windows Media Player and Picture Viewer are included with XP Home.
and of course iTunes is a free download to all.
Includes mouse and keyboard, and the mouse is optical.

i know the company that makes these machines very well, do you?

Here's one that is closest to the specs (Win XP Home - Gimme a break! With OS X everyone gets the full version + developer tools) of the cheapest PowerMac G5 ( at 1395 education price). A bit closer, eh? I think the 375 is worth the additional software, ease of use/productivity factor, plus Apple's history and the innnovations to come. Some may not see it as worth it, and that's OK, just be fair about comparisons.

Unit Price x Qty
Total

Athlon 64 Configurator - NO MONITOR

2ND_USB: STANDARD 2 USB PORTS + 2 EXTRA USB PORTS CONNECTORS [+9]

CABLE: None

CASUPGRADE: NONE

CPU: (754-pin) AMD ATHLON64 2800+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+512]

CAS: Silverstone Temjin SST-TJ01 Workstation Aluminum Case 420 WATT [+57] (BLACK COLOR)

CD: NONE

CDRW: PIONEER DVR-108 DUAL FORMAT 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER [+60] (BEIGE COLOR)

FLASHMEDIA: None [+0]

FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK

FLOPPY: NONE

HDD: 80GB 7200 RPM ATA 100 HARD DRIVE

HDD2: NONE

HALFLIFE2: NONE

IEEE_CARD: IEEE 1394 CARD WITH CABLE AND SOFTWARE [+29]

KEYBOARD: Logitech Elite USB/PS2 Keyboard [+33]

MOUSE: Microsoft® Optical Wheel Mouse [+5] (BEIGE COLOR)

MODEM: 3COM US ROBOTIC PCI V.92 WINMODEM [+19]

MSGAME1: NONE

MSGAME2: NONE

MSGAME3: NONE

MOTHERBOARD: (754-pin Socket) Abit KV8 PRO VIA K8T800 Chipset AGP8X w/LAN,USB2,&Audio

MEMORY: 512 MB PC3200 400MHz DDR MEMORY (GEIL VALUE RAM)

MONITOR: NONE

MP3PLAYER: NONE

NAPSTER: NONE

NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD

NVIDIA_GAMES: NONE

OS: Microsoft® Windows® 2000 Professional [+149]

PRINTER: None

PRINTER_CABLE: None

POWERSUPPLY: STANDARD CASE POWER SUPPLY

RAID: NONE

RUSH: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS

SCANNER: NONE

SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT

SOUND: 3D WAVE ON-BOARD 5.1 SOUND CARD

SPEAKERS: 600WATT PMPO SUBWOOFER STEREO SPEAKERS

SOFT1: Microsoft® OFFICE® 2003 BASIC EDITION [+159]

SOFT2: NONE

TEMP: NONE (AS SHOWN)

UPS: None

VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce-4 MX-4000 64MB AGP [-10]

VIDEOCAMERA: NONE

WIRELESSPOINT: NONE

WIRELESSCARD: NONE

ZIP: NONE

_PRICE: (+1022)

_view_: normal
Subtotal:
$1,022.00

 

[Sir_Giggles]

The HD shouldn't be too loud. But the fan will be louder, as the eMac has a louder fan than the iBook. Unless they're able to really improve on the airflow in this new model.

Do you think the iMac mini would use notebook drives as opposed to the larger 3.5" drives? The iMac mini could possibly be using notebook parts as the basis of its small form factor. I believe it would have an integrated video chip.

 

[Sir_Giggles]

If this is true, I think I'll buy one immediately, for my parents. For web surfing, email and IM, this kind of machine along with a 15" TFT screen is just perfect!

Exactly, because its inexpensive! Thats why you see the iPod mini outselling both the iPod 20gb and the much more expensive iPod photo 60GB. Even if the iPod photo is the latest and greatest, normal people don't care about that. So when the Mac mini comes true, people who would never consider a mac may just end up buying 2 or 3 in the household than they would have spent buying just 1 iMac for the entire house.

 

[adamjay]

Here's one that is closest to the specs (Win XP Home - Gimme a break! With OS X everyone gets the full version + developer tools) of the cheapest PowerMac G5 ( at 1395 education price). A bit closer, eh? I think the 375 is worth the additional software, ease of use/productivity factor, plus Apple's history and the innnovations to come. Some may not see it as worth it, and that's OK, just be fair about comparisons.

well if you want to be TRULEY fair about comparisons then, i see you're wanting to compare to the cheapest G5.....

change the 512MB to 256MB , change the 16X DVDRW to 8X, and get rid of MS Office. G5 PM's dont even come with Appleworks!

as far as XP Home vs. XP Pro, How many mac users on a daily basis use things like Remote Installation Service (RIS), or Windows Server Management. These are the 2 most distinguishing differences between Home and Pro, alot like the difference between Panther and OSX Server v10.3. Does Server 10.3 come with that EDU G5 ?

also look at the warranties.
Power Mac G5 comes with 90 days of free telephone support and a one-year limited warranty. vs. Lifetime free telephone support and a three-year limited warranty. Of course lifetime is a loaded word in the technology sector, though my mom just called them last month for a windows update issue, after buying the computer 4 years ago.

so are we splitting hairs now or what?

 

[BillD222]

hmmm

Do you think the iMac mini would use notebook drives as opposed to the larger 3.5" drives? The iMac mini could possibly be using notebook parts as the basis of its small form factor. I believe it would have an integrated video chip.

the smaller the component w/ the larger the capacity equals a higher price. They'd have to lessen the capacity to hit the price point, which doesn't hold well for "switchers". Most don;t recognize the cost of good design (not looks). They just see it only has XX GB not what it takes to get that capacity into a small & intuitive form factor.

ex.
at macsolutions.com 80GB 2.5 costs $189, 80 GB 3.5 costs $73

 

[BillD222]

How much doest thou cost, let me count the ways!

well if you want to be TRULEY fair about comparisons then, i see you're wanting to compare to the cheapest G5.....

change the 512MB to 256MB , change the 16X DVDRW to 8X, and get rid of MS Office. G5 PM's dont even come with Appleworks!

>>> you're right - i missd those - just saw the pioneer and didn't read on.

as far as XP Home vs. XP Pro, How many mac users on a daily basis use things like Remote Installation Service (RIS), or Windows Server Management. These are the 2 most distinguishing differences between Home and Pro, alot like the difference between Panther and OSX Server v10.3. Does Server 10.3 come with that EDU G5 ?

>> Server 10.3 is for servers. You get a lot more with Pro than home and a lot more with X than XP.

also look at the warranties.
Power Mac G5 comes with 90 days of free telephone support and a one-year limited warranty. vs. Lifetime free telephone support and a three-year limited warranty. Of course lifetime is a loaded word in the technology sector, though my mom just called them last month for a windows update issue, after buying the computer 4 years ago.

>>>ok add 119 for AppleCare.

so are we splitting hairs now or what?

I guess so, but we're still closer in price than where you started.

At least we're not making as many errors as our TV and print media does on a daily basis!! The only good thing about all of our technology is that we're get ill-informed more quickly!!

 

[Kagetenshi]

How about $646 for a 64-bit system with 512MB DDR400, 160GB, 8x superdrive, XP Home, etc.? Comparable to a single G5 1.8ghz (the ones with 900mhz FSB's) Oh, you want the 5200 video card, then its $664.
certainly not $1326.

http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/custom/cfga64.asp

try it yourself, its not difficult to configure a 64 bit windows machine that costs 1/2 or sometimes 1/3 its Apple equivalent.

Specs you posted aren't comparable. I'd peg that as comparable to top of the eMac line, all in all.

Or would you like to explain to me how my Powerbook G4 500MHz crunches numbers better than a 2.2GHz Pentium 4? The P4 machine has less RAM (512 vs. 768), but we're talking sub-megabyte data sets so that shouldn't make a meaningful difference.

as far as XP Home vs. XP Pro, How many mac users on a daily basis use things like Remote Installation Service (RIS), or Windows Server Management. These are the 2 most distinguishing differences between Home and Pro, alot like the difference between Panther and OSX Server v10.3. Does Server 10.3 come with that EDU G5 ?

And you're making it blatantly obvious that you've never used Server (or any server OS at all, period) if you think XP Professional is anything remotely like it. But wait! All that OS X Server offers is a well-designed GUI frontend for managing everything; all of the actual server software is in a basic OS X install, so your answer is yes.

BillD: the machine you specced still isn't comparable because it's a winmodem; they're too damn cheap to throw a real modem on the thing. Won't add much, but is just one more thing.

~J

 

[Mord]

Do you think the iMac mini would use notebook drives as opposed to the larger 3.5" drives? The iMac mini could possibly be using notebook parts as the basis of its small form factor. I believe it would have an integrated video chip.

when you say integrated you don't mean shared video memory do you?, that will never happen on a mac, apple will always use ati and nvidea gpu's unless faster ones that are comparable in price become available elsewhere.

 

[Rootman]

as far as XP Home vs. XP Pro, How many mac users on a daily basis use things like Remote Installation Service (RIS), or Windows Server Management. These are the 2 most distinguishing differences between Home and Pro, alot like the difference between Panther and OSX Server v10.3. Does Server 10.3 come with that EDU G5 ?

I don't think you can use XP Home as a client on a corporate LAN, even. Meanwhile, OSX "Home" plays well with corporate networks, comes with a web server, and can also be a LAN server on a very large mixed-platform network of its own. OSX Server competes with pricey Windows Server products, not XP Pro.

 

[maya]

~One of the longest threads in MR history~ :: crazy :: ​

 

[barnett25]

i would say if you can "win" the "being asked for advise on buying a new PC" guys like we two are (and neither of us ever owned any apple hardware) with a _rumour_ alone then i would dare to say that the sale numbers gonna be good....really good

All of the "being asked for advice on buying a new PC" people I know (excluding myself) are PC users and would say that Macs are only good for Graphic Artists. That always drives me nuts, but thats the way most PC guys i know (read "d00d! Im GeTtInG 7985fps on D00M 3!!!!!") think.

 

[rock711]

Is this the new eMac?

Has anyone entertained the thought that this is simply the next evolution of the eMac? It's aging in its upgrade track and is due for at least a speed bump anyway. Maybe the apple execs decided to simply drop the crt and market it in new avenues while still touting it as a cheap education platform. It would make more sense to alter the eMac platform than to create a new product line, or create a competitor to your brand-spanking new iMac.

Just a thought.

 

[AidenShaw]

I don't think you can use XP Home as a client on a corporate LAN, even.

Of course you can - it's using standard TCP/IP.

What you can't do on a "corporate" LAN is to use XP Home to log into a Windows Domain - you need XP Pro to become a member of a domain.

 

[BillD222]

Has anyone entertained the thought that this is simply the next evolution of the eMac? It's aging in its upgrade track and is due for at least a speed bump anyway. Maybe the apple execs decided to simply drop the crt and market it in new avenues while still touting it as a cheap education platform. It would make more sense to alter the eMac platform than to create a new product line, or create a competitor to your brand-spanking new iMac.

Just a thought.

That's what i would think. Also, the fact that there was no 17" display replacement in the aluminum lineup. This would be a good move for the ed. market which sees an influx of "mini" Peecees with 15" LCDs. Looks like the Wintelers are finally seeing the benefits of a small footprint. Me thinks there'll be a matching 17" or 15" display. Hope the price is a bit more competitive (though most compare them to analog LCDs instead of DVI). If it's not aluminum it won't match the 1.8 G5. It'd be a little more in reach for those who don't want to shell out for a 20" @ that price.

 

[Yvan256]

Do you think the iMac mini would use notebook drives as opposed to the larger 3.5" drives? The iMac mini could possibly be using notebook parts as the basis of its small form factor. I believe it would have an integrated video chip.

I sure hope that if there's a "Mac mini", it uses regular desktop parts. Laptop parts always perform less and cost more than their desktop equivalent. What's the point in trying to make a low-cost Mac if you put more expensive parts in it? For the damn form factor? No way! Put what you need inside it (G4, 3.5" IDE HD, etc), then let Ive make a case for it. NOT the other way around. This ain't the iMac!

Heck, even a few older parts would be ok (like using regular parallel IDE instead of the SATA, etc). Now, don't skimp too much on the GPU/VRAM though. My guess here would be "make it the same as the eMac".

As for the CPU itself, I do have a personnal experience from a few days ago. I was playing around with an old PowerMac G4. It had OS X on it. Not sure which version, but IMO it wasn't the most recent one. Not sure how much RAM it had, but let's say 512MB. Well, I was running iTunes, ripping a CD into Apple Lossless, and at the same time running Photoshop to scan a few pages at 300dpi (4MB, 6.5MB and 7.1MB worth of data). It sure wasn't blazingly fast, but at no point did I think "damn, why is it so slow".

So, I figured that thing was about a G4/800MHz or something. Hey, let's check that "About my computer" menu....

That box was only a G4/400Mhz. And it didn't really felt any slower than my old P3/1000MHz, 512MB, XP Pro box I had at work.

If there really is a "Mac mini" coming up, with a G4/1.25GHz, it's going to kick serious ass. Sure, a G5 would be nice, and a lot faster, but IMO we're at a point where more speed isn't as important as usability (except for the pro users, who need both anyway).

"Mac mini" for 500$US at the current exchange rate?

"Mac mini" for 600$CAN? Bring it on!

 

[Yvan256]

Has anyone entertained the thought that this is simply the next evolution of the eMac? It's aging in its upgrade track and is due for at least a speed bump anyway. Maybe the apple execs decided to simply drop the crt and market it in new avenues while still touting it as a cheap education platform. It would make more sense to alter the eMac platform than to create a new product line, or create a competitor to your brand-spanking new iMac.

Just a thought.

Well, we did see an Apple note about the next eMac rev. having "minor external and major internal changes"... Changing the G4 for a G5 counts as a major internal rev. to me... But does dropping the CRT counts as a minor external rev?!

Will we see an eMac upgrade (to G5 and Radeon 9600) or a completely new eMac (still G4, no CRT, way lower cost)?

IMO it'd make no sense to have both a low-cost headless G4 box and a new G5 eMac that kind of plays in the new iMac playground.

Then again the top iMac does kind of play in the lower PowerMac playground...

Help, I'm confused!

Oh well, only about 10 days before we know (I hope).

 

[maya]

Has anyone entertained the thought that this is simply the next evolution of the eMac? It's aging in its upgrade track and is due for at least a speed bump anyway. Maybe the apple execs decided to simply drop the crt and market it in new avenues while still touting it as a cheap education platform. It would make more sense to alter the eMac platform than to create a new product line, or create a competitor to your brand-spanking new iMac.

Just a thought.

This has already been mentioned in earlier posts.

This just might be the product to replace the eMac in the near future, I see no difference that the iMac G5 will follow suit in a few years.

Think about the iMac line for example Apple has to design a new case for it when moving from the G3-->G4--->G5. And where can the design go next i mean a screen is the only thing to see this makes me wonder what a G6 iMac might look like.

If the new Mac were to replace the eMac as of in the near future and when moved to a G5 replace the iMac G5 in a few year the line would be very easy to refresh and have multiple options open that the current eMac and iMac G5 cannot full fill. Stacking, Weight, Portability with out a screen.

I would not be surprised if the iPod evolves to a mini computer it can already do photos, it lacks power for video. (ultra portable)

Think of it this way the Mac all in one will soon me an iPod, the current all in ones will only be a desktop/portable minus screen, the notebook will be desktop/portable plus form fitting screen and then the PowerMac and Xserve which will be a desktop and server rack solution.

This is just the start of a whole new computing experience.

 

[Zaty]

Has anyone entertained the thought that this is simply the next evolution of the eMac? It's aging in its upgrade track and is due for at least a speed bump anyway. Maybe the apple execs decided to simply drop the crt and market it in new avenues while still touting it as a cheap education platform. It would make more sense to alter the eMac platform than to create a new product line, or create a competitor to your brand-spanking new iMac.

Just a thought.

Actually, I have thought about that, too. But if the information TS received is correct, it can't be an eMac replacement as the headless Mac is apparently not marketed towards educational customers but rather towards potential switchers and Mac users who want an additional computer which is attractively priced. Like you said yourself, this headless (e)Mac would practically bring no changes specs wise, except for the omission of the CRT. Furthermore, there have been rumours that Apple plans to replace the current eMac with a new G5 model sometime later this year. I expect the new eMac to be a stripped down version of the current iMac if it really gets a major overhaul this year already.

EDIT: Just another thought that crossed my mind, when the eMac was introduced, it was only available to educational customers. Apple only made available to everyone after popular demand for it. Therefore, the "e" in eMac sort lost its meaning. Because of that, Apple might have decided to drop the eMac all along and introduce a special stripped down version of the current iMac, perhaps with a 15" display, which will be available only for the educational market. (Of course, Apple could still name that special iMac an eMac.) The headless Mac would then take the place the eMac is now covering in the non-educational market: An attractively priced Mac for customers who only need their computers for basic task.

 

[Rod Rod]

[ . . 17" LCD missing in displays lineup . . . ] If it's not aluminum it won't match the 1.8 G5. It'd be a little more in reach for those who don't want to shell out for a 20" @ that price.

If it's white it will match the Power Mac G5's keyboard and mouse, and that will look great. It may look mismatched if someone were to have a dual-screen setup with an aluminum display plus a white-framed display, but if the white-framed display has a similarly small bezel it won't look that bad.