$499 Headless iMac?

[Marx55]

LARGE CORPORATE SWITCH REQUIRES THIS

The headless Mac (Mac mini) is what we have been waiting for years to switch from PC-Windoze to Mac.

But it must have the following features (at least in a deluxe model):

1 - No fan. No blowers. No noise. Quiet.

2 - Support for booting from large external FireWire disks (500 GB single-disk units just released by Seagate). Even a hard disk-less Mac would be great for us.

3 - Support for the large Apple Cinema Displays. We are pro users and require large displays. But do not want the noisy, bulky and expensive PowerMac G5 towers. For us it is most important a quiet headless Mac, even with a G4 (remember the cube) than a noisy G5. We plan to renew the headless Macs every year or so. And we do not want the all-in-one solution (iMac G5) because we want to purchase and keep expensive displays for years. We want to renew the headless part every year; not the display.

4 - Support for at least for 1 GB RAM.

5 - Analog and digital audio/video in/out.

6 - If possible, radio tuner.

7 - If possible, video tuner.

8 - If possible, at lease 256 VRAM.

9.-If possible, frontal connectors.

10.-If possible, connectors for SATA (2), FireWire 800 (4) & USB 2 (4).

Such machine would rock and expand Apple market share for sure.

We do not see it only as a Trojan horse to switch from PC-Windows to Mac. We see it also as a new concept of computing.

 

[Rod Rod]

Okay, so you don't need a Power Mac G5 because they're big and noisy, but you want a low-cost Mac that has tons of features Power Macs lack?

That was mildly entertaining anyway. The late Senator Paul Tsongas would likely call it Santa Claus or Pander Bear rhetoric.

 

[adamjay]

Until the world understands that the SOFTWARE makes the computer, Macs will struggle with marketshare.

I see, so its the world's fault.
Sorry, that just seems like backwards logic to me.
I look at it like this, Apple understands what the world wants and chooses not to give it to them because they are profiting without doing so.

This business model appeals to less users, but more importantly, it does appeal to users who want to "think different", as in "be different" and pay alot more for your computer than you should. The software kicks ass, but its not worth THAT much.

 

[iMan]

I was just thinking of the rumor from a year ago about how Apple was "planning" on porting OS X over to run on Intel machines. We all thought that this would scare Microsoft. But, I can see Jobs saying,"Why have them run it on Intel machines when they can run it on Apple machines?" Hence, this miniMac. Let's eliminate the only reason Windows user DON'T buy Apple computers: price.

1. I don't think for a second that Apple seriously considered OS X to run on PCs (native that is). OS X is just a vehicle to sell Apple hardware - why would they want to be losing hardware sales over a few possible converts? After all the Mac is all about the whole experience - not just OS X. Also see all the problems when the clones were around - did it do any good at all for Apple? Doubtful!

2. Price is by far not the only reason Windows users don't convert - at best it is one of the reasons. Reasons are (random order): Software accessability (including games), possibility to custom build (or even build yourself), fear of the unkown (easy to get help with a windows system - how many knows a techie that could help you out with a mac system?), periferals (you already have equipment that does not necessarily work with OS X - or you think so), compatibility with documents of different kinds (also to a degree a myth - but people believe that. Now also joined by the WMA DRM format...), Accessability (how many places can you go look at and buy a Windows system?)... + +
I don't even think most people even get to that price comparison at all...

 

[iMan]

Yes, but there is some sense in what phobophobia is saying. As a retailer it makes sense for Apple to be trying to sell everything the customer may need and a price comparable monitor is missing here.

i_b_joshua

True enough - but what does it take for Apple to make a smaller low-end monitor as well? After all - the current displays are aimed at pro-users, so if they make a all-new concept-computer, they might throw in the display for good measure... and the presence of such a display before the computer itself would certainly allow for some speculations... I mean who in their right mind would buy a G5 tower AND a 17" low cost monitor to go with it? Then you're better off with the iMac anyways...

 

[adamjay]

LIAR = STRONG WORDS AROUND HERE!

I went to cyberpowersystem.com, first off, MY GOD are they UGLY!!! So yeah, no R&D like Apple to make a good looking machine, these are henious, they're typical peecee luser, ZERO taste!!!

So you almost had me bought, as probably you wanted other Mac users... but rather than take your word I did a configuration for supposedly a good machine under 64 AMD, and you clearly didn't post your, ahem, catch to all this. Add in a combo drive (beige, WTF, peecee luser weenies are still stuck in 98?!?) add a 5200 video card, add this and that to make it, say, the equivalent of the lowest end G5 and you're at $1326... and it's ugly... AND it doesn't come with any iLife apps, or Appleworks, basicaly you can play games, even get a coupon off half life. Funny how peecee luser/apologists are so quick to overlook that they're cheap-ass systems lack any and all software to do a damn thing, Apple's software would be worth hundred if all added up vs. peecee software. $1326 is NOT $600 or even $500!

How about $646 for a 64-bit system with 512MB DDR400, 160GB, 8x superdrive, XP Home, etc.? Comparable to a single G5 1.8ghz (the ones with 900mhz FSB's) Oh, you want the 5200 video card, then its $664.
certainly not $1326.

http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/custom/cfga64.asp

try it yourself, its not difficult to configure a 64 bit windows machine that costs 1/2 or sometimes 1/3 its Apple equivalent.

 

[Platform]

The headless Mac (Mac mini) is what we have been waiting for years to switch from PC-Windoze to Mac.

But it must have the following features (at least in a deluxe model):

1 - No fan. No blowers. No noise. Quiet.

2 - Support for booting from large external FireWire disks (500 GB single-disk units just released by Seagate). Even a hard disk-less Mac would be great for us.

3 - Support for the large Apple Cinema Displays. We are pro users and require large displays. But do not want the noisy, bulky and expensive PowerMac G5 towers. For us it is most important a quiet headless Mac, even with a G4 (remember the cube) than a noisy G5. We plan to renew the headless Macs every year or so. And we do not want the all-in-one solution (iMac G5) because we want to purchase and keep expensive displays for years. We want to renew the headless part every year; not the display.

4 - Support for at least for 1 GB RAM.

5 - Analog and digital audio/video in/out.

6 - If possible, radio tuner.

7 - If possible, video tuner.

8 - If possible, at lease 256 VRAM.

9.-If possible, frontal connectors.

10.-If possible, connectors for SATA (2), FireWire 800 (4) & USB 2 (4).

Such machine would rock and expand Apple market share for sure.

We do not see it only as a Trojan horse to switch from PC-Windows to Mac. We see it also as a new concept of computing.

OK sound great but

Why is apple going to introduce a macine that is this good and has features not found on the current top of the line macine, to the entry level machine??

 

[briomaster]

It's just a hoax ! ! !

People you know apple better than that, do you actually think that apple wants to get into the commodity market against other pc's. They would loose sales to imac's and emac's and I don't think they want that to happen. It's very wishful thinking but it won't happen. OS/x is getting bigger and better and I doubt that a 1.25 g4 will be able to keep up with the new os as well. The only cheap mac available is an emac, take it or leave (steve jobs would say).

 

[iMan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mactarkus
Until the world understands that the SOFTWARE makes the computer, Macs will struggle with marketshare.

I see, so its the world's fault.
Sorry, that just seems like backwards logic to me.
I look at it like this, Apple understands what the world wants and chooses not to give it to them because they are profiting without doing so.

This business model appeals to less users, but more importantly, it does appeal to users who want to "think different", as in "be different" and pay alot more for your computer than you should. The software kicks ass, but its not worth THAT much.

You are assuming that Mac's cost more than the equivalent Windows machine. It does not, really. At best there are minor price differences. The big difference is that in the PC-world you may opt out of a lot of the features always included with the Mac. A feature for feature comparison will benefit Apple more often than people think.
This based on if you compare with other big ww vendors like Dell, HP, IBM (Lenovo) etc. - not some speciality workshop catering to specific needs.

Also; the a computer is of course not about the software OR the hardware; it is about user experience, or the way the user benefits from using given software on given hardware. One without the other is for people with very special interests

 

[iMan]

How about $646 for a 64-bit system with 512MB DDR400, 160GB, 8x superdrive, XP Home, etc.? Comparable to a single G5 1.8ghz (the ones with 900mhz FSB's) Oh, you want the 5200 video card, then its $664.
certainly not $1326.

http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/custom/cfga64.asp

try it yourself, its not difficult to configure a 64 bit windows machine that costs 1/2 or sometimes 1/3 its Apple equivalent.

Depends on what you think of as equivalent... Just the case on these are far from anything you'll ever get from Apple. Try to put these components together in a superquiet box the size of your slim DVD player and see what happens...

I would also say something about dealers offering three color of neon lightning as a standard option - but I'll refrain...

 

[adamjay]

You are assuming that Mac's cost more than the equivalent Windows machine. It does not, really. At best there are minor price differences. The big difference is that in the PC-world you may opt out of a lot of the features always included with the Mac. A feature for feature comparison will benefit Apple more often than people think.
This based on if you compare with other big ww vendors like Dell, HP, IBM (Lenovo) etc. - not some speciality workshop catering to specific needs.

Also; the a computer is of course not about the software OR the hardware; it is about user experience, or the way the user benefits from using given software on given hardware. One without the other is for people with very special interests

You're right, i am assuming that Mac's cost more than the equivalent Windows machine. My basis for assumption? the last 5 macs i've owned.
And i can't think of a better place to compare to Apple than a "specialty workshop catering to specific needs". When i bought my first mac, thats exactly how i saw Apple, a specialty computer, catering to the needs of Graphic Designers and Audio Specialists. I'm not going to compare Apple to a company with 50% market share, that wouldn't be fair to Apple.

I have so many friends in the Audio field that since the recession began, when it came time to upgrade their G4's to use any of the audio software written in the last 3 years - opted for Windows machines. They did not want to spend $3,000 for a G5 when $1,500 bought them a 64-bit Windows machine with dual channel ram, i.e. a G5 x86-64 equivalent. In fact of all my friends that were using Apples 4 years ago, the only that remain are staying for Final Cut Pro.

For years Apple was seen as a specialist manufacturer for the creative fields, in addition to being just an excellent company that made excellent products. But their pricing models of "lets have our highest end desktop start at $2,999 and not a penny less" for the last five and a half years, has totally polarized their user base. Where most creative artists wish they were indeed creative "professionals", we can't afford $2k or even $3k for a modern computer that will meet the demands of the day. So, Apple, a company that used to be so idealistic when it came to what you do with your computer, has now turned the Apple logo into a Lifestyle badge. And many folks in creative fields either woke up and climbed out of the trap, or looked into their wallets and found them empty thanks to years of patronage.

 

[adamjay]

The fact that often times the #1 argument for the huge premiums encountered when buying an Apple vs. a PC is how much "better" it looks or how much more "stylish" it appears really feeds into the consumerist disease that has totally plagued the western world in the last 20 years.

My mother always taught me never to judge a book by its cover and that whats on the inside is what truley counts. And since we all love to personify our computers... you can use the same ram, hard drives, optical drives, etc. in either platform.

I spend more time looking at the screen of my computer, you know the GUI for all the math its ACTUALLY doing, than oogling over its clean or non-clean lines and curves on the case.

If i want to pay an extra $1,500 for a piece of art, then i'll buy my $1,500 PC and support a local painter or sculpter whose work i appreciate with a subsequent $1,500 check. Theres just something about a mass produced, made in China, aluminum box that doesn't scream "aesthetic" to me. :::shrug:::
Oh, but its designed in California? As printing on the box and case indicates. Well then that must make it art.

 

[Platform]

The fact that often times the #1 argument for the huge premiums encountered when buying an Apple vs. a PC is how much "better" it looks or how much more "stylish" it appears really feeds into the consumerist disease that has totally plagued the western world in the last 20 years.

My mother always taught me never to judge a book by its cover and that whats on the inside is what truley counts. And since we all love to personify our computers... you can use the same ram, hard drives, optical drives, etc. in either platform.

I spend more time looking at the screen of my computer, you know the GUI for all the math its ACTUALLY doing, than oogling over its clean or non-clean lines and curves on the case.

If i want to pay an extra $1,500 for a piece of art, then i'll buy my $1,500 PC and support a local painter or sculpter whose work i appreciate with a subsequent $1,500 check. Theres just something about a mass produced, made in China, aluminum box that doesn't scream "aesthetic" to me. :::shrug:::
Oh, but its designed in California? As printing on the box and case indicates. Well then that must make it art.

OK nice to pay someone for hard work but with apple you can have it factory made and with excelent quality too that's why it cost a bit more than the wintel machines and last but not least their leap in software and OS

 

[iMan]

The fact that often times the #1 argument for the huge premiums encountered when buying an Apple vs. a PC is how much "better" it looks or how much more "stylish" it appears really feeds into the consumerist disease that has totally plagued the western world in the last 20 years.

My mother always taught me never to judge a book by its cover and that whats on the inside is what truley counts. And since we all love to personify our computers... you can use the same ram, hard drives, optical drives, etc. in either platform.

I spend more time looking at the screen of my computer, you know the GUI for all the math its ACTUALLY doing, than oogling over its clean or non-clean lines and curves on the case.

If i want to pay an extra $1,500 for a piece of art, then i'll buy my $1,500 PC and support a local painter or sculpter whose work i appreciate with a subsequent $1,500 check. Theres just something about a mass produced, made in China, aluminum box that doesn't scream "aesthetic" to me. :::shrug:::
Oh, but its designed in California? As printing on the box and case indicates. Well then that must make it art.

You are so clearly a disappointed bitter man - I don't even understand why you are on this forum posting your feverishly sad experiences... I feel sorry for you, if that helps, but maybe not in the ways you would want me to...

Obviously though it is not possible to discuss the matter of this subject with you, as you prove for all that you are not able to see more to compare than just the one brick to another.

Have a nice life man!

 

[jccbin]

Think, people. Think

The number one reason people don't switch may indeed be the perceived cost, but the number two reason is:

They already know how to use Windows. Switching would require them to learn how to use a computer all over again.

That is their perception. Even though Macs are easier to use, and more intuitive, they already know how to use Windows. People inherently don't want to look stupid. Its embarrassing.


--------
The following is a political statement: adamjay might have no ability to understand human beings at all because apparently he thinks killing Americans is fine and dandy as long as the liberal commies get their way. Socialism is for losers and power mad fools. If he gets to call someone and idiot, I reserve the right to call him one as well.

 

[iMan]

The number one reason people don't switch may indeed be the perceived cost, but the number two reason is:

They already know how to use Windows. Switching would require them to learn how to use a computer all over again.

That is their perception. Even though Macs are easier to use, and more intuitive, they already know how to use Windows. People inherently don't want to look stupid. Its embarrassing.


--------
The following is a political statement: adamjay might have no ability to understand human beings at all because apparently he thinks killing Americans is fine and dandy as long as the liberal commies get their way. Socialism is for losers and power mad fools. If he gets to call someone and idiot, I reserve the right to call him one as well.

I would somewhat agree with you - except Mac OS is not that more intuitive than Windows anymore (thanks to OS X).

(As for your political statement: that sort of opinions usually backfires... power mad fools you find everywhere - I would not see the american president & government especially on the socialist or even liberal side - still a lot can be said about them being exploiting the powers on their hands and their sanity... american lifes are not one bit more worth than anyone elses, and fact is that the two Bush presidents has been responsible for killing a lot more innocent people than all terrorists on the planet combined - but then again, this is not a political forum, and the idiots will usually reveal themselves to the world without anyone having to point at them... )

 

[takao]

You are so clearly a disappointed bitter man - I don't even understand why you are on this forum posting your feverishly sad experiences... I feel sorry for you, if that helps, but maybe not in the ways you would want me to...

Obviously though it is not possible to discuss the matter of this subject with you, as you prove for all that you are not able to see more to compare than just the one brick to another.

Have a nice life man!

i doubt he is the only one here who prefers function over form

seriously i don't find the current imac,emac,ibook very aesthetic at all but they are good machines and i would buy an 500€ Apple even when it's colored pink,has a picture of beckham printed on the one side and britney spears on the other

for me the primary thing is whats inside and what is running on the computer not which shape the powerbutton has or if it fits my furniture

 

[iMan]

i doubt he is the only one here who prefers function over form

seriously i don't find the current imac,emac,ibook very aesthetic at all but they are good machines and i would buy an 500€ Apple even when it's colored pink,has a picture of beckham printed on the one side and britney spears on the other

for me the primary thing is whats inside and what is running on the computer not which shape the powerbutton has or if it fits my furniture

You should never buy such a computer... if it had an image of Zeta Jones on the other hand...

But I agree that form always should follow function - so I too will go with your priorities. I would say that Apple actually is pretty good at this (as is also Sony and to a degree IBM (on its laptops) and HP).

The great thing with the diversity of solutions is that each fits to certain preferences; as Apple computers don't fit anyone, neither does most other brands. And form IS a big factor - especially now that PCs are moving in with the rest of the livingroom equipment. I know people that have bought Apple just because it was the only PC that "fit"... (there are people like that... of course I would say they have their priorities mixed up... but as long as they choose Apple

However - at least there should be some form to the function...

[edit]: also consider that the people on this forum is not exactly in the target group for all things Apple make - as was apparently the case with the iPod mini...

 

[Les Kern]

You are so clearly a disappointed bitter man - I don't even understand why you are on this forum posting your feverishly sad experiences... I feel sorry for you, if that helps, but maybe not in the ways you would want me to...

Obviously though it is not possible to discuss the matter of this subject with you, as you prove for all that you are not able to see more to compare than just the one brick to another.

Have a nice life man!

Bit over the top, don't you think? "Feverishly sad" ?? You must live in a vacuum. A perfect, completely lifeless, vacuum.
Anyway, while I don't agree with most of his post, the bit about consumerism hits it. Just ask the folks who were injured fighting over a "tickle me elmo" or whatever the latest equivalent is.

 

[Les Kern]

...at least there should be some form to the function...

Excellent point, but I might add what I believe: that XP is NOT the answer. Nor is Linux. It just so happens that OS X is CLOSER to the answer, and comes in a pretty spiffy package to boot. Win-win.

 

[BillD222]

Compare Apples to Apples (cliche intended)

How about $646 for a 64-bit system with 512MB DDR400, 160GB, 8x superdrive, XP Home, etc.? Comparable to a single G5 1.8ghz (the ones with 900mhz FSB's) Oh, you want the 5200 video card, then its $664.
certainly not $1326.

http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/custom/cfga64.asp

try it yourself, its not difficult to configure a 64 bit windows machine that costs 1/2 or sometimes 1/3 its Apple equivalent.

on this... is this just a bare system? Now, add Windows, MS Works, Photo, music, Video Edit , DVD, and all of the third party software that comes with a Mac. Also, keyboard, optical mouse, etc. Also consider the R&Dand product quality of Apple or even a Dell or HP.

On the "headless iMac"...

If it's true it'll probably be the new eMac. I don't think Apple needs a bargain PC in their line up other than the eMac. People say they want to keep their monitors. CRTs are so cheap now (add a 17 CRT and your at the eMac price) and LCDs getting cheaper. In 5 - 7 (how long I kept my last Mac desktop) years when I'm ready to replace my iMac G5, I'll be ready for a new monitor, even if it happens to outlast the usefulness of the PC. IF it's ture I just hope it comes with a faster CPU or a 1.25 dual. 512 of RAM and some TV options would be nice, too. A kind of universal mac, desktop, semi-portable, media center, etc.

 

[iMan]

Bit over the top, don't you think? "Feverishly sad" ?? You must live in a vacuum. A perfect, completely lifeless, vacuum.
Anyway, while I don't agree with most of his post, the bit about consumerism hits it. Just ask the folks who were injured fighting over a "tickle me elmo" or whatever the latest equivalent is.

Well it so happens that in my lifeless vacuum I use technology not only for the technology itself. So both the function and the form is of interest to me. To be losing out will be to focus solely on the one - and the consumerism part applies to both sides in my opinion; either if you are so busy measuring up the money you pay or just the form of the thing.

A computer is nothing but a thing that is supposed to make life a little easier and better for you. Just like anything else you buy - like buying groceries in the store instead of growing them yourself. It is ok to question the need for absolutely everything we buy, but to throw it all after a new rumored headless Mac just because Apple happens to make computers that people actually enjoy the looks of as the symbol for the worlds consumerism is - in fact - both over the top, sad and completely naive. He should probably consider the fact that the manufactorer he himself endorses delivers their so completely functional boxes with NEON lights! What does that says for the cover of the book - and consumerism?
I just find it all sad...

 

[Rootman]

You're right, i am assuming that Mac's cost more than the equivalent Windows machine. My basis for assumption? the last 5 macs i've owned.
And i can't think of a better place to compare to Apple than a "specialty workshop catering to specific needs". When i bought my first mac, thats exactly how i saw Apple, a specialty computer, catering to the needs of Graphic Designers and Audio Specialists. I'm not going to compare Apple to a company with 50% market share, that wouldn't be fair to Apple.

I have so many friends in the Audio field that since the recession began, when it came time to upgrade their G4's to use any of the audio software written in the last 3 years - opted for Windows machines. They did not want to spend $3,000 for a G5 when $1,500 bought them a 64-bit Windows machine with dual channel ram, i.e. a G5 x86-64 equivalent. In fact of all my friends that were using Apples 4 years ago, the only that remain are staying for Final Cut Pro.

For years Apple was seen as a specialist manufacturer for the creative fields, in addition to being just an excellent company that made excellent products. But their pricing models of "lets have our highest end desktop start at $2,999 and not a penny less" for the last five and a half years, has totally polarized their user base. Where most creative artists wish they were indeed creative "professionals", we can't afford $2k or even $3k for a modern computer that will meet the demands of the day. So, Apple, a company that used to be so idealistic when it came to what you do with your computer, has now turned the Apple logo into a Lifestyle badge. And many folks in creative fields either woke up and climbed out of the trap, or looked into their wallets and found them empty thanks to years of patronage.

I think you've got some good points. But Apple took a more difficult road than Wintel over that period, transitioning to RISC first, then UNIX - major expensive architecture reengineering efforts that took its toll on product offerings during the last seven years or so; but they were good long-term bets, and I think we (in creative fields) are all the richer for it. Who else could have pulled it off - fairly smooth leaps from OS 9 to OSX, and from CISC to RISC? The important thing is to see where Mac vs Intel is positioned today. Who can scale the fastest? If Apple can make powerful boxes under $1000 (G4, G5, G6) (and do things like iPod, which is one of the most amazing product successes of the decade), Dell can't compete in the computer space any more than they can succeed in the music space. Plus grid computing, virus-free computing, set-top things, etc.

We are now arguing over whether people will pay $100 more for one or the other. This is nothing.

Has anybody thought that this new headless has more to do with supporting iPod growth and securing Apple's music/whatever's-next dominance than vice-versa? Because the only thing that gave any other loser music player any hope was perceived Windows compatibility/improved functionality.

 

[adamjay]

on this... is this just a bare system? Now, add Windows, MS Works, Photo, music, Video Edit , DVD, and all of the third party software that comes with a Mac. Also, keyboard, optical mouse, etc. Also consider the R&Dand product quality of Apple or even a Dell or HP.

that includes Windows XP Home, as mentioned.
Windows Media Player and Picture Viewer are included with XP Home.
and of course iTunes is a free download to all.
Includes mouse and keyboard, and the mouse is optical.

i know the company that makes these machines very well, do you?

 

[rdowns]

Hell froze over once. It can freeze over again.

Here's the proof