4GB 'iPod Mini' and 15GB iPod

[gaijinjim]

Re: Stupid?

Originally posted by splashman
Stupid, huh?

[SARCASM ALERT]
You might want to keep in mind that not everyone has 78 gigs of illegal downloads in their possession, and of those that do, not all feel it absolutely necessary to have all 78 gigs available at all times.
[/SARCASM ALERT]

It's obvious you still find your 5gig useful. Why not someone else?

Sarcasm. Not needed, but humorous. For the record, every mp3 I own is legal.

I do find my 5GB iPod useful. But comparison wise. please look at the earlier post from wPod.

Originally posted by wPod

has anyone considered this? -->
40Gb @ $500 = $12.5 per Gb
20Gb @ $400 = $20 per Gb
15Gb @ $300 = $20 per Gb
4Gb @ $250 = $62.5 per Gb

That is my thinking as well. And that's why I don't understand why they set the price so high. And like I said in the first post, "I may have gotten a mini in the near future had the price been realistic."

Didn't see the keynote, but apparently people were silenced, instead of oohing and ahhing, when the price was revealed.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by Belly-laughs
I haven´t read the whole thread (now >20p) so please excuse me if someone´s had this view earlier....

My initial reaction to the price was negative. When comparing the mini to the flash player Jobs went "...half the size, double the memory..." Next I expected him to say "...half the price." But he didn´t.

This is one of my main problems with it. It is an amazing machine. 1000 songs in an elegant case the size of a business card and .5 inches thick. Amazing!

I just think they (Apple and Steve) did a poor job introducing it. Building up to the iPod as the final thing and going through the mini vs. the Rio Player line by line only for it to be more expensive?

Maybe all lot of the difference in reception by people is people who watched the keynote itself vs. people who waited for it to be over and checked out the site afterwards. I think I would been so riled up if I wasn't watching the Keynote just waiting $50 less to come out of his mouth only for it to be $50 more.

I want some one to tell me they watched the keynote and when they saw the Rio Player listed at $199 still thought the iPod mini was going to cost more.

 

[splashman]

Re: Re: Reconsidered.

Originally posted by wPod
has anyone considered this? -->
40Gb @ $500 = $12.5 per Gb
20Gb @ $400 = $20 per Gb
15Gb @ $300 = $20 per Gb
4Gb @ $250 = $62.5 per Gb

That is 300% (ish. . . actually a little more) more per Gb for the 4Gb than the 15 (or 20) For that much of an increase it better do something more than be small and have color.

With all due respect, Apple didn't design or price the mini with you in mind. They designed it for a particular market. I don't claim to know the details of their target demographics, but it might look something like this:

(a) people with music collections of 4 gigs or less
(b) people with larger music collections, but are on a tight budget and don't need to have all their music with them all the time.
(c) people who don't look at specs -- they just want what's hot
(d) people who are really into aesthetics, and happen to like this design and one or more of the colors . . .

I could go on, but the point is that none of the above groups care in the slightest about your dollars-per-gig numbers.

Whether or not you or I agree with Apple's strategy (I don't), and whether or not their strategy actually works (I hope it does), I think we can assume they have put some serious thought into the pricing.

 

[Rex44]

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
I suspect they may be dissappointed. I have mostly heard poor reviews for running with an iPod (I know my friend's skips about 25 minutes into his workout everyday - just about the size of the buffer). Since, the mini is also a hard drive device why would it be any better for this. Just because Apple sells an armband doesn't mean you can run with it on.

Any iPod owners have input on exercising while wearing the iPod?

Yes, I have not ever, not even once, had my 20G iPod skip on me when running, and I run 6 days/week. I think it is an issue that has been hugely blown out of proportion by a very small percentage of people. Maybe they're really spasmodic runners or something? And to be honest, if it ever did skip I doubt it would bother me much. It is such a huge pleasure to have when running that I almost couldn't imagine ever running without it.

I would guess the thinking is that having it strapped to your upper arm would cause far less movement that holding it in your hands (what I usually do), and should reduce the likelihood of skippage.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

I just rewatched the iPod mini presentation and things were much as I remembered. No reaction from the crowd when he gets to the price. In fact, Jobs doesn't even pause when he says it. He runs throught the comparison again and still no reaction. Basically, there is not another sound from the crowd until he shows what it looks like.

I really believe a lot of the negative criticism is because it was introduced so poorly. They should have shown it and then given the price. Forget about the comparison to the Rio Player (everyone watching the Keynote speech knew that flash players are a waste of money anyhow).

Everything else, price was the last thing mentioned. Tell me what I am getting then tell me how much. There must be a reason why you have to watch an infomercial for 10 minutes before you find out the product costs. Make me think I need it and then I will pay whatever you tell me. Tell me it's $250 dollars first and I zone out. I honestly didn't really pay much attention to the presentation once in realized it is still out of my price range.

Watch it yourself and judge:
Keynote Speech
The relevant part starts at about 1:53:00.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Upon further review

First of all, I have officially become obsessed with this topic. I think I went from "member" to "regular" since 3pm today.

Once again, I watched the iPod mini presentation (after this post I am going to bed - I swear). He seems pretty adamant that people do not use their sub $100 flash players. That you will end up spending another $100 to upgrade the memory if you do. I believe this is true (sure I use my 64Mb Rio a lot, but I do not pretend to be an average consumer).

So now, how does Apple convince people shopping for mp3 players that they could spend $100-150, but they are going to want to add memory soon anyhow. Or else, they are going to get frustrated with it and just not use it. So why not just spend $250 and get something they will want to have with them all the time.

For the first time it occured to me that a lot of people buying the minis may already own an older flash player and be sick of it's limitations and interface. The are better informed than some one going out to get their first digital music player.

Maybe Apple does know what they are doing.

That said, while trying to save for a house, I still can't justify $250 to my finacee for what is basically the coolest walkman ever.

Okay, now off to bed.
Maybe I will dream of a G5 Cube 😉

 

[feffer37]

Boy am I glad that forums like this exist, so we can all air out how we feel about important issues like these. I thought I was going to have to bottle up my mixed feelings about the iPod Minis until I broke down and bought the 15 GB iPod 🙁

At any rate, speaking as a marketing major, I can only say that I agree with Splashman, Apple is targeting a certain market, and I'm pretty sure that all of us who are disapointed right now aren't in that target market. We're all really bummed, asking ourselves how Apple could be so foolish. Well, after setting my dissapointment aside, and putting my marketing cap on, I considered the following:

1. Apple wants the biggest bang for the buck right now, and knows that it has a near stranglehold over the GENERAL POPULATION Market with thier iPods. Frankly, the vast majority of people who buy iPods aren't all of us on these forums or watching Apple's new releases with frevor. It's the everyday joes and sally's who want one of those mp3 thingies, becasue they're cool, will hold all of their music, and are clearly a better and stylish value over all the other mp3 players in the market. Those consumers are the ones who are walking in the ritzy malls and cities where the Apple Stores reside. They are the ones who are more than willing to buy the $249 iPod mini because of it's style and size. They're the same people who buy Gucci handbags, Bose Radios, drive nice SUV's or Cars, and don't think twice about the price when they see the pink or blue iPod Mini.

2. Apple has been positioning itself in a very advantageous place ever since Steve Jobs came back to the helm. If anyone has ever read "Trading Up", a very recent Market Analysis book that came out in March, you will understand what I'm about to describe (I highly recommend that book. Trading Up, it can be found in the business section). Apple has found the proper blend of form and function, and frankly, is becoming more well known as producing the BMW of computers. If you want a computer that is the creme de le creme of the industry, you buy a Mac, hands down. That is why Apple can charge more than the other guys, and get it too. Consumers who feel an emotional connection to the company, are willing to pay the money to have the Apple Product. Consumers who want the unique blend of style and technology are also willing to pay the price. That's why the new iMac has been such a success, and why the iPod owns the mp3 player market. For example, take my state, Michigan. We've got two Apple Stores. One in Novi's Twelve Oaks Mall, and one in Troy's Summerset Mall. Both are in Metro Detroit, smack right in the middle of two of the most affulent Detroit subarbs, where the Upper Class and Upper Middle Class like to shop. This is where the SUV driving, Gucci wearing people will go to buy thier iPod minis. They will put those stores out of stock without question. That is who Apple is selling these iPod minis to. That is why they will crush that market segment. They are marketing those iPod minis to the people who will buy them in droves, and who haven't even heard of Rio, and who think that a Nomad is a desert wanderer and a Zen is a state of mind.

3. For all of us who were hoping for a iPod that we could get for $149, well, I don't know what we're going to do. We're the type of people who sum up our feelings in Gigabite/$$ comparisons like wPod. I wanted a 2 GB iPod I could take to the Gym, and would have happily paid $149 for it, or maybe even $200. But, Apple is looking to stay with it's high class, high profit approach. As a business owner myself, I applaud them for it. I want Apple to succeed so that I can continue to buy and use their products. I think that our best bet is to go somewhere like Best Buy or CompUSA, get one of their no-interest deals on a Credit Card deal, and pick up the 15GB iPod. If anything, that may have been Steve Job's message to all of us: "Hey guys, get your head's out of your a$$, and buy a 15GB iPod, we can't feasably make enough money on a cheapo iPod." And that may be true. Or Jobs may have the 2GB iPod card up his sleeve for a future release. He could drop the price on the iPod minis down to $199. I predict this happening before the next Holiday Season, along with the introduction of a 6GB or 8GB iPod mini for $249, along with a revamp of the regular iPod line, 15GB @ $299, 40GB @ $399, & 60 or 80GB @ $499. If we're lucky, Apple will go ahead and introduce a lesser priced version of the iPod mini at a 2GB rate for $99 or something, but I doubt this.

So, my recommendation to the naysayers, is to keep the faith, Apple knows what it's doing. The market has changed since 1984, and Apple has SURVIVED this long beacause of this kind of approach. Read Trading Up, it'll show Apple's seemingly dumbass moves for the brilliance they truely are.

Me, I'm going to Best Buy to get my 15GB iPod when it comes out. I need some music for the gym. Or maybe a 20GB since I want the dock too 😉

Uncle Ted

 

[Sir_Giggles]

I re-watched the iPod mini presentation and it doesn't seem like quite the shocker as it was this morning. If anything, Jobs made some very valid points regarding the flash player market and how people either use it or pay extra to upgrade it.

He also did say they were going after the high-end flash market, without addressing the low-end... yet. All the people on here complaining should wait for Apple to tackle the low-end as it seems that's where all the complainers are coming from.

Regarding the form factor, I think it is ultra-sexy. It looks absolutely gorgeous, sleek metallic with a much nicer select button than the 3G iPods.

 

[juancarloz]

A New Smaller iPod

I think that the iPod mini will replace the iPod when the hard drives increase in storage size and the 4G will come down in price.

I think that they should use the technology in the iPod mini on the iPod to come out with a more compact ipod

same screen size.
What do you think?

 

[tjwett]

Re: A New Smaller iPod

Originally posted by juancarloz
I think that the iPod mini will replace the iPod when the hard drives increase in storage size and the 4G will come down in price...

agreed. right now all it's gonna do is attract people to the 15gb instead, if they have any good sense. i really like yr mockup. i think they should slim the iPod with the new Click Wheel while keeping the larger screen. probably go in that direction once the drives start to scale. ugh, what a disappointment. they really could have had something special. not that i don't like the mini, it's beautiful! but the price is just a complete joke.

 

[NusuniAdmin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No offense

Originally posted by drproctor
Not too shabby at all. Maybe you could also ask them to find out how many of those people already own iPods, how many are die-hard mac fans, and how many decided that today they would go out and look for low-end digital media players. I'm glad they're selling, but first people in the door doesn't equate to great sales. Fact is, apple has the form & function down perfectly, but they've got this weird price factor that means it'll probably still appeal to individuals looking to spend in the 250/300 price range.

How weak are you? I've yet to cramp up from carrying my iPod.

Sure the 12'' pb is awsome, but it's also not $50 less than the 15'' pb.

right off the bat? is that real survey takin' lingo?

I was just stating I was going to get a 14" ibook or 12" pb this had nuttin to do with the convo. Plus 15" they have the monitor issues, another mistake by apple (or the monitor producer).


And yes it was a real survey that I did, And since this is a new school that i just started 4 weeks ago i still have no idea who the mac freaks are, so it was totaly fair.

 

[iChan]

Originally posted by srobert
Anybody tought about this?:

Mr. X argue that he might as well get a 15 Gig iPod. 15 Gig iPod is advertised to hold 3,700 songs. Thats 3,700 99¢ legally purchased songs. This amounts to $3,663 worth of music.

Well. I think that if mr. X can afford to purchase more than $3,500 worth of music he should'nt be so picky on the iPod mini price.

Just my 2 mini cents.

who said anything about the song having to be legally purchased at $99? (i'm assuming you are talkking about the iTMS)

what about all the song that are ripped?? which could add up to the tens of thousands.

 

[brywalker]

After seeing juancarloz's image, I can say that I like the "Smaller" one best. The porportions are fantastic! I think the mini is too tall and the screen looks too small for its height.

Here is my take on what the mini should look like. I think they should have sacrificed the "business card size" just a bit in order to get the proportions better. All I did was fill the gaps, its the same width, and the screen is the same size. Just make it a bit thicker to move stuff around or something.

 

[iMan]

A lot of the people here are hissing about the "high" price of the iPod mini and the lack of "real" stuff at the latest MacWorld. Most of these I suppose are the victims of reading too much rumour pages and maybe set their expectations a bit high. I suppose also Apple could have released a real ballbreaker, but hey: they actually made a severe server competitor and RAID solution, they made probably the greatest home ed music app ever and they released the minipods. What else should they do? Make a car?

And the minipod is not over the top in my opinion. I recall that someone was flaming about the high price of the iPod 2 years ago also. People still buy it. I suppose Apple is quite happy receiving 55% revenue from 31% market share. The minipods are going to be a hit!! The "high" price will just keep the "want" factor up there. I definitely want one!

Also the minipod is not competing with the iPod. Yes it is 50 bucks more for 4x capacity, but that is not the point. The point is it is smaller and has 16x capacity of a $199 High End MP3 player. I'll get the minipod any day over that! Besides; what is "reasonably" priced? You never expect a "cheap" Mercedes do you? Cheap is alltogether for the others. I believe that Apple will have trouble (as with iPod) to deliver enough of the miniPods - even at the fairly stiff price - so why charge less?

Steve Jobs knows what he's doing. He also had some glitches, but ask yourself were Apple would be today without him!!? The man's a genius - and even makes money of it!

 

[the future]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
$250 is Apple's greed showing once again. If the quoted $70 price of the internal hard drive is true then Apple is making a massive killing in these iPod minies ... I've seen the UI for the Dell Jukebox. It's as easy, if not easier what with an up down scroll wheel, as the iPod. ... Greed. Its may have been refined by Microsoft but Apple has its own version. I have no problems with companies making a profit off their products. That's the beauty of capitalism but only when the price is reasonable

The $ 70 was for a 2 GB HD from Cornice (Apple apparently uses 4 GB HDs from Toshiba in the miniPods) ... re: Dell UI - HaHa, very good joke ... re: capitalism - last time I checked the market decides if the price is reasonable. and btw., greed is the *only* thing that matters in capitalism.

 

[Wash!!]

To all the naysayers...

Have you actually touch or use one yet to say if it is worth the price to IMHO I'll wait until I see one in person to judge.

My daughters saw them last night on the web site and now have to buy 3 blue, pink and silver 😀

This going to be the hottest toy for kids

 

[el gringo]

It's easy for Apple to lower the price "IF" the "mini" doesn't sell as expected - right 😉

So - an initial price of 249 USD will easily get to 199 USD when and if supply exceeds demand...

 

[uv23]

Just thinking out loud.... a great way for Apple to make the iPod mini seem like a worthwhile purchase would be to just go ahead and include the mini dock and armband; two things that are pretty much essential for the active crowd, to whom this is being heavily marketed. If that were the case, I know I for one might be swayed. Just my early morning $0.02CDN ($0.015US).

 

[FlamDrag]

iPod and iPod mini

I've read nearly every post, but I'm sure I'll repeat other's thoughts nonetheless. Not that anyone is really paying attention at this point.

1. $50 is still $50. It may not be a lot to some folks, but it is to others. That's $50 that can go towards any number of bills that go with being a grown up, groceries, rent, insurance or even some other luxury item like going out to dinner.

Yes, it is fifty bucks for eleven GB, but my tree that grows $50 bills is dead. I don't know about yours.

2. Not everyone needs 20 GB. Nor wants it.

3. If I go to Sams Warehouse shopping, I can get an oil drum size box of cereal for about $2 more than the regular size. So why doesn't everyone buy mega-size everything if it costs less?

4. Form factor counts for something. if they looked identical to the iPods, I'd agree with the arguments much more. That is to say, the diff. b/w the 15 and 20 is hard for me to understand. However, the iPod mini is smaller, lighter and in the opinion of some, cuter/cooler looking than the iPod.

5. If everyone in America had an iPod mini (which everyone seems to think would happen if they cost $199 or $149) then the "cool factor" is lost nearly entirely. Apple is attempting to control both ends of the fundamental law of Supply and Demand. The price point still makes it a luxury item to be seen owning.

6 I think that the colors are about perfect. They're not too loud (fire engine red for example) and each has their own perfect market.

Silver: Execs and those who prefer non-colored items.
Gold: Bling Bling crowd.
Blue: Nearly everyone - a very safe color.
Green: Nature folks + most of blue.
Pink: Women / Girls and the Gay/Lesbian community. Many have mentioned Japaneese school girls. I hope Apple ships a boatload of Pink to Japan.

7. The iPod mini isn't perfect, but it's still very, very nice in a lot of ways.

8. Relax, we're talking about iPods. Please get a little tiny bit of perspective on the issue.

 

[VicMacs]

redundancies

people please read the other 21 pages of this thread .. stop repeating things others have said! they should have rumor copyrights... 🙂 happy day!

 

[mullmann]

Originally posted by autrefois
I understand your point and it does make sense, but I just disagree.

I've thought of another example.

My sister has my old Power Mac G3 400 MHz with Panther installed. I've asked her several times about how it's working out, and she says that it works perfectly with absolutely no problems so far (if only we could all say the same thing about our Macs!!). A little slower than their iMac G4, but certainly not enough to be a problem according to her. I was worried Panther might be too much for it, but it's not.

That's a perfect example. Why couldn't Apple sell a cheaper product which works perfectly fine? It would cost them $0 in R&D to continue selling Power Mac G3s, and if they sold them cheap enough I'm sure people would buy them.

That is a good example, but without trying to be an Apple apologist, I think they would say they do sell a cheaper product that works just fine. The eMac starts at $799. Sure, you can buy a bargain-basement PC for even less than that, but at some point we would have to start saying you get what you pay for. While they probably could still be selling older G3 hardware at even lower prices, in the long run that seems like a lose-lose proposition. That chipset won't support a lot of the newer software that Apple and others are developing, which either freezes those customers out of most developments going forward or ratchets up Apple's development costs to continue supporting them (if it were even possible). Neither outcome would seem to be tenable.

 

[el gringo]

FlamDrag: I couldn't have said it better 🙂

 

[Count Blah]

Re: Re: Reconsidered.

Originally posted by wPod
That is the only rational I could think of. . . Apple can't produce that many right now so they will jack up the price, once production improves they will drop the price. I was going to buy one imidiatly had the price been around $150. . . I would wait one week to buy if it had been around $200. . . but at $250 I might as well buy a 15gb . . . but niehter 250 or 300 I want to spend, only 150 but no more than 200!!!

has anyone considered this? -->
40Gb @ $500 = $12.5 per Gb
20Gb @ $400 = $20 per Gb
15Gb @ $300 = $20 per Gb
4Gb @ $250 = $62.5 per Gb

That is 300% (ish. . . actually a little more) more per Gb for the 4Gb than the 15 (or 20) For that much of an increase it better do something more than be small and have color.

BINGO!!!!! We have a winner. I would have purchased one on the spot if it had been $199. We are talking about a nice to have do-dad(I already have a portable firewire drive). People(LIKE PARENTS!!!!!) usually have a hard cap they are willing to spend. People(LIKE PARENTS) have a problem with giving junior a $250 MP3 player to smash up while skating. For some reason $199 is a easier(mentally) to accept than $249.

I did get some extra mony for x-mas, I guess I'll put that towards the 15 Gig iPod, but I'll hold off for a little while incase I can find a 10Gig iPod for less than $299.

 

[VicMacs]

noticed?

the mini colors are the "same" as the flavor imacs

 

[rtdunham]

yes, better form factor

I think that they should use the technology in the iPod mini on the iPod to come out with a more compact ipod

(this from the post with the pic of regular, proposed smaller regular, and mini pods)...

I agree. I'd rather have the middle device. Keep the big screen, for god's snake. I'm tired of products becoming LESS, instead of more. Can anyone argue that the smaller screen's as good as or better, more desirable in any way, than the larger one?