4K Apple TV Could Feature A10X Fusion Chip and 3GB of RAM

[bommai]

Please 2 HDMI outputs and DTS-HD//DOLBY TrueHD support! Been asking this for years!

Why would you want 2 of them - so one goes to your non-4k receiver and one goes to your 4k display?
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Have to agree. First you gotta get past all those that don't have enough bandwidth. And those that do won't see much difference. You need a big screen tv to really see the difference. 75" or more.

More than 4k, support for HDR and WCG. My Sony x800 UHD player is absolutely fabulous displaying HDR/WCG content on my Epson 5040UB. It can do this from a disc, or any of the streaming services such as Netflix, you tube, etc. and yes I can tell the difference. I have a 150" screen and I sit 13' away.

 

[ValO]

Why would you want 2 of them - so one goes to your non-4k receiver and one goes to your 4k display?
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More than 4k, support for HDR and WCG. My Sony x800 UHD player is absolutely fabulous displaying HDR/WCG content on my Epson 5040UB. It can do this from a disc, or any of the streaming services such as Netflix, you tube, etc. and yes I can tell the difference. I have a 150" screen and I sit 13' away.

Yes, why indeed, with arc hdmi from your tv, wouldn’t you be able to play the sound on your receiver, even if this receiver has an older hdmi standard(from1.3)? Would that work?

 

[fishmoose]

Wonder how many people actually have the bandwidth for 4K content.

Most of Europe and Asia.

 

[Nugget]

Yes, why indeed, with arc hdmi from your tv, wouldn’t you be able to play the sound on your receiver, even if this receiver has an older hdmi standard(from1.3)? Would that work?

HDMI ARC is limited to 5.1 (at best) so it won't work with any of the newer positional audio formats (ATMOS and DTS:X) or with lossless audio. Many televisions can only pass 2.0 PCM via HDMI ARC.

 

[triangletechie]

So I guess this will be called Apple TV 4K. I wonder if it will come in black, or if they change the color to
differentiate from the last gen model.

 

[ValO]

HDMI ARC is limited to 5.1 (at best) so it won't work with any of the newer positional audio formats (ATMOS and DTS:X) or with lossless audio. Many televisions can only pass 2.0 PCM via HDMI ARC.

Ok, thanks!

 

[Rigby]

DTS-HD I'm not so concerned about. DTS on the other hand is more feasible when considering bandwidth.

Hm, why would you use another lossy codec (which isn't really much better than plain old AC3) if bandwidth isn't an issue?

It doesn't take that much for regular DTS, as I run a Plex VPS with movies that I have encoded with the DTS audio track and have no problems with bandwidth on my 50Mbps connection.

For local streaming of your own files you can already use high-bitrate lossless codecs using apps such as Infuse (which can play them back without transcoding). You can use DTS-HD, TrueHD or multichannel FLAC. But there is currently no Internet streaming service that uses such audio codecs, so it doesn't make much sense for Apple to support them in their native apps.

 

[simon lefisch]

Hm, why would you use another lossy codec (which isn't really much better than plain old AC3) if bandwidth isn't an issue?

Dynamically speaking, DTS is superior to DD. Also, the higher the sample/bit rate of the audio track, the larger the file. If I had a 10TB+ RAIDed drive, then I'd prob use the HD audio. Regardless, it's very easy to REMUX the audio track at a later date if I want.

For local streaming of your own files you can already use high-bitrate lossless codecs using apps such as Infuse (which can play them back without transcoding).

Yes I know this as I already have a local Plex Server. However that is my point about the ATV not supporting DTS/DTS-HD/TrueHD. If you have your own local server with these codecs, ATV should support pass-thru. The fact that it doesn't puts the ATV behind the Shield TV.

 

[amro]

H265 inside mp4 container. I tried creating my own h265 inside mp4 file and it failed to transfer to my 10.5” iPad over latest iTunes.

I converted an MKV to H265 using Handbrake Nightly and it played just fine on my iPad Pro 10.5" with iOS 11 beta.

 

[mmm1345]

A GTX 1080Ti can barely play 4K games at 60 FPS, and you're expecting a mobile chip to do the same?

It's called platform optimization which is a concept PC Gamers can't seem to grasp. And I'm not talking about heavy AAA Console games. I'm talking MOBILE games. There is a difference and I could care less about 60FPS. But mobile games in 4K, no real reason why some developers couldn't do it.

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I'd be willing to bet, Apple won't price it more than $129 and it will be only one version (64GB).

(Many did not buy the 64GB version because they never filled their 32GB box with more than 16GB of apps).

I'll take you up on that bet

 

[bommai]

Yes, why indeed, with arc hdmi from your tv, wouldn’t you be able to play the sound on your receiver, even if this receiver has an older hdmi standard(from1.3)? Would that work?

Apple is way behind in audio standards as well. When bluray was introduced over 10 years ago, along with HDMI 1.1 there was a way to transmit lossless audio to a sound processor/receiver. For HDMI 1.1 it was in the form of multi channel PCM (up to 7.1) and starting with HDMI 1.3 also Dolby True HD and DTS HD Ma as well as newer lossy codecs such as Dolby Digital + and DTS HD HR. With hdmi 1.4 I believe we even had support for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X. What was apple doing? On the Apple TV4, apple claimed they support dolby digital + may be to support Netflix. I am not sure if they ever did that. But no support for any lossless codecs. Lame. For serious video and audio, I use my Sony x800 UHD player. It supports sacds, 4k bluray, bluray, DVD, cd, DVD-audio, many many audio and video formats including MKV files, Apple lossless, DSF, etc through both USB and dlna. And it streams Netflix, amazon, and you tube in 4k HDR (no hdr on amazon).
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Yes, why indeed, with arc hdmi from your tv, wouldn’t you be able to play the sound on your receiver, even if this receiver has an older hdmi standard(from1.3)? Would that work?

Except arc does not support lossless audio until you get to newer eARC which came out in 2017.

 

[LinkinJunior]

Here are a few things I see which differ between the Apple TV / Apple TV 4K and Shield TV

Apple TV still has a bad YouTube app in comparison to a Shield TV YouTube app.
Shield TV can play video/photos from a USB connected or network connected HDD, but both have PLEX.

Is there anything else?

 

[Gorms]

Weird mention of ARKit at the end there? I can't think of many valid uses for ARKit on ATV except potentially mirroring from the device? Unless we are saying ATV is getting a camera?

 

[Rigby]

Dynamically speaking, DTS is superior to DD.

There is a lot of marketing hype, but in reality both formats support the same dynamic range (24 bit sample depth). DTS supports higher data rates that may or may not reduce the amount of audible compression artifacts. To my ears AC3 at 640kbps sounds pretty damn good though.

Also, the higher the sample/bit rate of the audio track, the larger the file. If I had a 10TB+ RAIDed drive, then I'd prob use the HD audio. Regardless, it's very easy to REMUX the audio track at a later date if I want.

That won't reduce the size of the track though.

Yes I know this as I already have a local Plex Server. However that is my point about the ATV not supporting DTS/DTS-HD/TrueHD. If you have your own local server with these codecs, ATV should support pass-thru. The fact that it doesn't puts the ATV behind the Shield TV.

I don't really get why people keep asking for bitstreaming of these formats. Decoding to PCM is a lossless process. Where bitstreaming really becomes interesting are the new object oriented surround formats (Atmos and DTS:X), which cannot be carried via simple PCM ...

 

[simon lefisch]

There is a lot of marketing hype, but in reality both formats support the same dynamic range (24 bit sample depth). DTS supports higher data rates that may or may not reduce the amount of audible compression artifacts. To my ears AC3 at 640kbps sounds pretty damn good though.

Actually most AC3 is 640kHz/16bit, where as DTS is either 755kHz or 1533kHz/24bit. Being someone who works in audio (studio production) there is a big difference dynamically between DTS and AC3. Obviously there are variables (DACs/speakers/etc).

 

[lique831]

There is a lot of marketing hype, but in reality both formats support the same dynamic range (24 bit sample depth). DTS supports higher data rates that may or may not reduce the amount of audible compression artifacts. To my ears AC3 at 640kbps sounds pretty damn good though.
That won't reduce the size of the track though.
I don't really get why people keep asking for bitstreaming of these formats. Decoding to PCM is a lossless process. Where bitstreaming really becomes interesting are the new object oriented surround formats (Atmos and DTS:X), which cannot be carried via simple PCM ...

 

[gnipgnop]

With hdmi 1.4 I believe we even had support for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X. What was apple doing? On the Apple TV4, apple claimed they support dolby digital + may be to support Netflix. I am not sure if they ever did that. But no support for any lossless codecs. Lame. For serious video and audio, I use my Sony x800 UHD player.

Lossless audio codecs for multi-channel movies have never been widely supported for digital downloads. There's a tiny number of movies that include those audio formats on other services that provide 4K downloads. I looked up an article that said VUDU had a grand total of 14 films that included that in 2016.

 

[lique831]

Really hope Apple does something with the audio. I bought a Nvidia Shield to stream 4k and Dolby Atmos. I'm in the market for another streaming box that supports Plex, but if they continue to handicap the audio, I'll just buy another Shield.

 

[Rigby]

Actually most AC3 is 640kHz/16bit, where as DTS is either 755kHz or 1533kHz/24bit.

That's not accurate (and your units are wrong).

 

[simon lefisch]

That's not accurate (and your units are wrong).

Really? Cuz most every movie that I have analyzed after decoding, the AC3 audio tracks are 16bit.

And apologies, the 640/1533 is the audio bit rate.

 

[thadoggfather]

IPad Pro 2017 SoC crammed into a 4K HDR set top box, (ok 3GB vs 4gb, but essentially)

Some thoughts-

1) impressive
2) this, coupled with release of A11, may whoop the impressiveness of the iPad Pro internals in a matter of months, no?

 

[sledgehammer89]

Hopefully my iPad Pro 10.5" will display 4K resolution when airplayed to Apple TV 5...

 

[EugW]

There is a lot of marketing hype, but in reality both formats support the same dynamic range (24 bit sample depth). DTS supports higher data rates that may or may not reduce the amount of audible compression artifacts. To my ears AC3 at 640kbps sounds pretty damn good though.
That won't reduce the size of the track though.

I think the main benefit of DTS in the past for movies was that they were encoded by DTS, ensuring maximum quality, whereas DD 5.1 was encoded by anyone.

The other issue is that DTS and DD 5.1 tracks were sometimes not encoded at the same volume, which makes it harder to compare.

I don't really get why people keep asking for bitstreaming of these formats. Decoding to PCM is a lossless process. Where bitstreaming really becomes interesting are the new object oriented surround formats (Atmos and DTS:X), which cannot be carried via simple PCM ...

If you don't bitstream, the player will often mix in the player sounds depending upon the setting, and/or then output as PCM 5.1. You can lose the 7.1 channel info, and as you already mentioned, you also lose the Atmos info.

 

[IGI2]

H265 inside mp4 container. I tried creating my own h265 inside mp4 file and it failed to transfer to my 10.5” iPad over latest iTunes.

I didn't think you would expect all kind of freedom in all manners.

Videos app on iPad Pro 12' still can't play 4K MKV files even though it's capable of doing, it just doesn't accept MKV files due to some political reasons.

It's similar with Apple TV, Infuse can play many formats even with existing hardware:
https://firecore.com/infuse

Video files and subtitle files:
https://firecore.com/blog/18308

So we do not need any mercy from Apple. They just need to deliver great OS and hardware so devs will take it from here

 

[EugW]

Really? Cuz most every movie that I have analyzed after decoding, the AC3 audio tracks are 16bit.

And apologies, the 640/1533 is the audio bit rate.

I would hope that Apple TV would support at least Dolby Digital Plus, which can go up to 1.7 Mbps. DD+ is what I get from Netflix, for example.