4K regression or...

[Rigby]

Unless it's at their place and then I need to be sure they have Apple playback hardware or I need to be sure to bring my own.

I bet there are currently more people with an Apple TV than a UHD BD player.

I can do every one of those with discs- and do. Digital downloads free with many discs bring ALL of the iTunes benefits too.

There you go.

What difference does the price make? OP thought he was buying a 4K version of the file.

From what I understand he bought a dirt cheap *HD* code from the gray market, not a 4K version.
[doublepost=1525446507][/doublepost]

Heat has the same issue. Bought the 4K version and it’s just HD. Pisses me off.

You bought the 4K version where? My iTunes version plays in 4K just fine.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

I bet there are currently more people with an Apple TV than a UHD BD player.

Once again, what does that have to do with this particular topic?

In my experience disc purchases tend to bundle multiple discs inside. I can't think of any that I have that doesn't have at least one prior generation resolution too, sometimes on the other side of the disc. So in the "go over to friends homes to watch some movie" scenario, taking the disc package will almost certainly have a movie in there that will play on whatever they have at their place. I can't as readily rely on them having the necessary equip to play an iTunes purchase, a VUDU purchase, etc. Do you want to argue more TVs than HD and/or DVD players too? I think I probably have more SuperDrives Apple built INSIDE of Apple computers somewhere around my home than I have TVs... without even counting dedicated disc players.

And let me clarify again: I love my TVs (more than one). I could write 10 paragraphs of gushing praise for TV that might put even BodyBuilderPaul's gushing praise posts to shame (which is no small task). I can probably make a pretty convincing argument that TV is actually Apple's BEST product, and I own pretty much EVERYTHING Apple offers. Furthermore, I've purchased many TVs for family so they can enjoy them too, selling them on the benefits, getting them hooked up for iTunes rentals, etc.

Back to topic: I love the idea of switching from discs to virtual copies. I just don't love all the compromises: tangible ones like best quality picture & sound, and less tangible ones like actually owning a copy (that I can loan, sell, give away), et all shared previously. That makes NO argument that discs are the one and only best option for everyone. It simply offers tangible counterpoint that the TV+iTunes option is the one and only best option for everyone. Choices are good for us consumers. If any one thing becomes the one and only way for all, consumers always lose.

Lastly I know for us Apple people, we can practically drown in our accumulated Apple purchases. But the bulk of the world is not Apple people. I WISH every single TV in the world had an TV attached to it. But that's only commonplace within our relatively smallish bubble.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Once again, what does that have to do with this particular topic?

In my experience disc purchases tend to bundle multiple discs inside. I can't think of any that I have that doesn't have at least one prior generation resolution too, sometimes on the other side of the disc. So in the "go over to friends homes to watch some movie" scenario, taking the disc package will almost certainly have a movie in there that will play on whatever they have at their place. I can't as readily rely on them having the necessary equip to play an iTunes purchase, a VUDU purchase, etc. Do you want to argue more TVs than HD and/or DVD players too? I think I probably have more SuperDrives Apple built INSIDE of Apple computers somewhere around my home than I have TVs... without even counting dedicated disc players.

And let me clarify again: I love my TVs (more than one). I could write 10 paragraphs of gushing praise for TV that might put even BodyBuilderPaul's gushing praise posts to shame (which is no small task). I can probably make a pretty convincing argument that TV is actually Apple's BEST product, and I own pretty much EVERYTHING Apple offers. Furthermore, I've purchased many TVs for family so they can enjoy them too, selling them on the benefits, getting them hooked up for iTunes rentals, etc.

Back to topic: I love the idea of switching from discs to virtual copies. I just don't love all the compromises: tangible ones like best quality picture & sound, and less tangible ones like actually owning a copy (that I can loan, sell, give away), et all shared previously. That makes NO argument that discs are the one and only best option for everyone. It simply offers tangible counterpoint that the TV+iTunes option is the one and only best option for everyone. Choices are good for us consumers. If any one thing becomes the one and only way for all, consumers always lose.

Lastly I know for us Apple people, we can practically drown in our accumulated Apple purchases. But the bulk of the world is not Apple people. I WISH every single TV in the world had an TV attached to it. But that's only commonplace within our relatively smallish bubble.

[doublepost=1525454573][/doublepost]Maybe sharing discs with your friends works for you BUT not a single one of my friends owns a DVD player or a BluRay player! Even my most conservative, traditional family man friend sent his DVD player to the dustbin over 2 years ago according to him - he uses OnDemand for everything.
My generation seem to stream everything and when I talk to really old people (60+), they are purely watching film on Netflix and not buying/owning!
The only people that I came across a few years ago that used discs were traditionalists who had NEVER had the pleasure of using Apple computers - they were tied to old Windows desktops and Android phones. So they'd never had the beautiful experience with what owning and using a Apple product brings. I must admit, they were incredibly dull people that I quickly ran away from
But different folks, different strokes. Some people are happy in one place their entire life, others need to explore. Some like traditional stuff like 80s style discs as they feel comfortable with it.
As long as you are happy, then that's really lovely and cuddly isn't it. But those discs look really repulsive on display in a house! I'm sure that you'd agree

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

OK BBP, I hear you. But here's the key to every post you write like that:

• I'm not you
• Nobody else is you
• Nobody else only has your friends
• The rest of the world is not your world

In exchange for your mentality about that, you never get to see anything you watch at best quality. You never get to hear it with best audio. You don't actually own any digital movie you've purchased. You have near-nill power to readily loan a movie to a friend, sell a movie you don't want to "own" anymore, give away a movie, donate a movie, leave your collection to heirs, etc. You can't go to your local library and check out hundreds or thousands of digital movies you could watch and enjoy for free. And so on.

And us non-existent, dull, stuck-in-the-1980's disc people get all of the above benefits AND, typically every single benefit of the digital download copy too, especially if we can make our own if a given disc doesn't give us a digital copy for free. Everything you can write about the benefits of your one-and-only favored way, us out-of-touch, out-of-date disc people get too, PLUS better quality picture & sound, PLUS much more tangible ownership of our purchases, etc.

I appreciate your incredible passion for the one-and-only Apple way here (nobody seems to have more than you on all these threads). I even share it on many levels. I just don't see it as the only way for all... even if every single one of your friends only consumes their media the very same way you do. The world is far bigger than your circle of acquaintances. Surveying only them doesn't auto-extrapolate to the rest of the world.

For example, there are days where I might only see white, english-speaking men in the course of my entire day(s). But I'm pretty sure there are abundant women, other languages and other races in the world.

And I've never been to- say- India, but I'm pretty sure it exists anyway and probably actually has a billion+ people that I know almost nothing about how they live in their day-to-day, how they consume video, etc. If I adopt your kind of extrapolation via my circle of friends & family, the people of India are just about all english-speaking, white people living in CBS-constructed homes with Palm Trees in their yards, with HOA-manicured landscaping, and relatively expensive cars in their garages. They all live close to the Atlantic ocean. It never snows there. Almost ALL of them pay U.S. taxes, Medicare, Social Security, Etc... or collect on those benefits. They're mostly Republicans but some are Democrats. They're mostly of Christian or Jewish faiths. They are pretty patriotic and will swear allegiance to the United States of America. Somehow they can get to Orlando Florida in only about 2-4 hours at most... by car! Etc.

I'm about certain that describes just about EVERYONE on Earth because that is what I generally see in or know about my own (tiny) circle. And my circle- like yours- is perfectly representative of all people everywhere.

 

[Snoopy4]

I bet there are currently more people with an Apple TV than a UHD BD player.
There you go.
From what I understand he bought a dirt cheap *HD* code from the gray market, not a 4K version.
[doublepost=1525446507][/doublepost]You bought the 4K version where? My iTunes version plays in 4K just fine.

Bought it in iTunes. It irritates the heck out of me.

 

[Rigby]

Bought it in iTunes. It irritates the heck out of me.

I would call support. This is not normal.

 

[oneMadRssn]

I bet there are currently more people with an Apple TV than a UHD BD player.

I highly doubt that given that UHD BD players are now in every Xbox One S, Xbox One X, and PS4 Pro. I mean, the Apple TV 4k has been selling pretty well I hear, but not beating the entire high-end console market plus every regular UHD BD player sold.

I wouldn't mind digital downloads and streaming so much if they were just a tad more open and generally more consistent. MA sounded very promising on both fronts at first, but then the gigantic list of caveats and exceptions ruined the concept.

There are two ways to do this:

(1) Have one company dominate the space, sort of how Valve dominates the gaming digital distribution market. There are other stores of course, but on PC Steam is undeniably king. That maintains a consistency and openness, but has the obvious disadvantages of anti-competitive potential.

(2) Have the competitors decide on a format and promise compatibility, through a standard setting organization or something. Microsoft tried this a while back with Windows Media and their FairPlay DRM, but that failed. I think they were a bit ahead of their own time, as it could have worked at a different time. This would have fewer anti-competitive risks but requires some fierce opponents to get together and play nice - I doubt the huge media distribution juggernauts (Apple, Amazon, Google, Walmart) are willing to sit down and work something out right now.

So we're stuck with what we have: A crappy, inconsistent, and unpredictable digital media streaming for rock bottom prices; or highest-quality, consistent, and cumbersome physical discs. If you ask me, two bad choices. This is why people pirate.

 

[Rigby]

I wouldn't mind digital downloads and streaming so much if they were just a tad more open and generally more consistent. MA sounded very promising on both fronts at first, but then the gigantic list of caveats and exceptions ruined the concept.

What caveats are you referring to? From my perspective, there are only two things that bother me about MA: that not all studios are participating, and that it doesn't cover TV shows (yet). Apart from that I'm quite happy with it, since I finally can access most of my UV digital copies via my provider of choice (iTunes). It even upgraded a large number of old SD digital copies to HD.

 

[oneMadRssn]

What caveats are you referring to? From my perspective, there are only two things that bother me about MA: that not all studios are participating, and that it doesn't cover TV shows (yet). Apart from that I'm quite happy with it, since I finally can access most of my UV digital copies via my provider of choice (iTunes). It even upgraded a large number of old SD digital copies to HD.

Let me sum it up like this: In an ideal world, there would be no need for this speadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsJkCX4DIv2oeCKQ7zp2ArkR1qKEXCUuCMBbUtHtmh4/edit#gid=0

 

[Rigby]

Let me sum it up like this: In an ideal world, there would be no need for this speadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsJkCX4DIv2oeCKQ7zp2ArkR1qKEXCUuCMBbUtHtmh4/edit#gid=0

None of this is has anything to do with MA. It's mostly for people who for some reason want to also get their movies into UV in 4K (which doesn't make much sense IMO, since UV is dying anyway) and take advantage of Apple's free 4K upgrades.

As far as MA is concerned, the rule is very simple: redeem all codes of MA movies from UHD discs directly in MA. If you are not interested in UV, this will always give optimal results.

 

[oneMadRssn]

None of this is has anything to do with MA. It's mostly for people who for some reason want to also get their movies into UV in 4K (which doesn't make much sense IMO, since UV is dying anyway) and take advantage of Apple's free 4K upgrades.

As far as MA is concerned, the rule is very simple: redeem all codes of MA movies from UHD discs directly in MA. If you are not interested in UV, this will always give optimal results.

I'll be honest, I haven't tried MA. From reading this forum and reddit, I see people are upset that not all titles purchased in 4k redeem for 4k streaming consistently on all platforms. Also, some the lack of some major studios is a bummer. Finally, the inability to download 4k content for offline viewing of any kind is also a downside.

 

[Rigby]

I'll be honest, I haven't tried MA. From reading this forum and reddit, I see people are upset that not all titles purchased in 4k redeem for 4k streaming consistently on all platforms.

Not all studios issue 4K codes with their UHD discs. But again, this has nothing to do with MA. All codes of MA movies redeem correctly directly in MA, and if the code includes a 4K entitlement, it is correctly handled and forwarded to all the connected providers that have the movie in 4K.

Also, some the lack of some major studios is a bummer.

Yes. Hopefully this will be temporary. We know that there are ongoing negotiations with the stragglers.

Finally, the inability to download 4k content for offline viewing of any kind is also a downside.

Which again has nothing to do with MA. People are just conflating a number of different issues.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Not all studios issue 4K codes with their UHD discs. But again, this has nothing to do with MA. All codes of MA movies redeem correctly directly in MA, and if the code includes a 4K entitlement, it is correctly handled and forwarded to all the connected providers that have the movie in 4K.
Yes. Hopefully this will be temporary. We know that there are ongoing negotiations with the stragglers.
Which again has nothing to do with MA. People are just conflating a number of different issues.

Yea, I know it's not all MA's fault. As I think I've made clear, the beef is with the "digital movie" industry as a whole. I understand that many of these limitations come from above, from the content creators.

 

[DarkIcarus]

I highly doubt that given that UHD BD players are now in every Xbox One S, Xbox One X, and PS4 Pro. I mean, the Apple TV 4k has been selling pretty well I hear, but not beating the entire high-end console market plus every regular UHD BD player sold.

This isn't correct. UHD BD players are only in the Xbox One S and Xbox One X. The PS4 Pro does not have an UHD BD player. Kind of strange when you consider Sony were one of the biggest distributers of Blu Ray originally and PS3 was one of the main reason for its success. Also the Xbox One is selling terribly bad compared to the PS4 and the Nintendo Switch is even on course to possibly overtake the Xbox One within the next year. So to say the Apple 4K has to beat the entire high-end console market is a bit of a leap. As things stand it would only have to outsell the Xbox One, which is not that much of a stretch.

 

[steve62388]

there are only two things that bother me about MA: that not all studios are participating, and that it doesn't cover TV shows (yet).

What about that it’s a US only service?

 

[Macalicious2011]

What's going on with iTunes movies? I was about to rent a movie but was shocked to see that four recent titles I am interested in are only available in HD!

I hope the future of iTunes movies won't be potluck whether a titled you are interested in is available in 4k or not.

 

[570934]

What's going on with iTunes movies? I was about to rent a movie but was shocked to see that four recent titles I am interested in are only available in HD!

I hope the future of iTunes movies won't be potluck whether a titled you are interested in is available in 4k or not.

It’s the studios that offer the content, some do 4K some don’t as of yet, or have, then decided not too.

 

[Macalicious2011]

It’s the studios that offer the content, some do 4K some don’t as of yet, or have, then decided not too.

Thor Ragnarok is available in 4k but not on iTunes. However Molly's game is new movie that's only available in HD. Very dissapointing. UHD isn't an option for me as I haven't invested in a player because discs are prohibitably expensive.

 

[fathergll]

It is not that drastic, however. If we speak about 4K playback in general. iTunes streaming is a special case.
HEVC now is supported at system level on macOS, once you have a decrypted stream, you can enjoy it on your mac, pc or appleTV without much trouble, besides performance (in my experience aTV 4K does not like streams above 50Mbps using the stock player).
But once decrypted, you can let HandBrake to re-compress it to lower bitrate and enjoy it.
On UHD bluray disc it is stored as a single m2ts file. One can re-wrap it into single MKV or MP4 file.
Apple's streaming ought to be HLS, meaning the pieces are still HEVC in .ts containers. But they indeed come DRM-ed and served over HTTPS, so not usable even if downloaded and stored.
BTW ffmpeg handles HLS reassembly very well. Just not the de-DRM part of the game.

The bottom line - there for sure is no technical explanation why we can not download 4K movies from iTunes. The reasons must be elsewhere.

It's a shame because they are leaving money on the table by trying to lock this down. Here's an example of a guy who is uploading 4K Bluray sourced clips to Youtube. They look beautiful but even if you wanted to purchase rent one from Youtube you would be limited to HD. The current system is such a mess.

 

[570934]

Thor Ragnarok is available in 4k but not on iTunes. However Molly's game is new movie that's only available in HD. Very dissapointing. UHD isn't an option for me as I haven't invested in a player because discs are prohibitably expensive.

Apple don’t want them to be charging £25 for 4K/HDR movies, taking the Mick.

 

[LiveM]

Nope. They were region-locked and only had some subtitles for each region. They were also noisy and low-quality, showing only SD with composite video.

His point was consistency. When a person buys a disc, it is going to play pretty much anywhere, on ANY disc-playing device, at it's highest quality. In short, a disc buyer knows exactly what they are getting and have confidence it can be played on a wide variety of equipment from many manufacturers. Furthermore, a Studio can't arbitrarily decide to stop by your home and yank it out of a movie collection. Etc.

"Only buy from iTunes" doesn't solve either issue. A digital version will "just work" on Apple stuff. Go to a friend's house and that friend will need to have some kind of Apple playback hardware or you aren't watching your (not owned, but leased) movie there unless you bring along your own connection hardware.

If the studio decides to yank the movie from iTunes, tough luck unless you've downloaded a copy and stored it on something within your control. Never happens? Do a search and see countless tales of consumers whining about exactly that.

Streaming is very convenient. It offers that great advantage over discs. In exchange, one doesn't "own" their digital collection (in the same way: they can't loan, can't sell, can't will, etc), quality is lower than quality of the same film via disc, sound is up to significantly weaker than disc, compatibility is thoroughly limited to the ecosystem from which one buys and stuff like OPs issue happens.

Discs- especially in the robust used discs market- can be much less expensive than "buying" a digital version. Discs often offer the bonus of a digital download so you can own a master copy and get all the benefits of a digital version too. If not, you can make your own relatively easily (and then YOU get to choose the quality, instead of leaning on the choices of some corporation deciding for you).

All the Apple worship in the world doesn't change the realities of the many limitations & tradeoffs of digital vs. physical copies. If one can live with the tradeoffs & limitations, great. Apple appreciates your relentless patronage & evangelizing. If you do that for free, Apple really appreciates how hard you work to crown the Apple way the best way in every possible thread about TV

But if one is able to "think different" (meaning independently of what a corporation wants you to think) discs aren't married to any one company's hardware, and one can always download or make a digital copy from the disc to get every bit of the convenience factor of owning a digital copy dropped into iTunes too.

My local library has about 2000 discs I can access for free. But they can't loan me even 1 digital movie. That's another great benefit of discs. With discs, many entities control the media and can loan it out for as little as free with no consequence. With digital, a single entity is caretaker of the entire collection, with complete control over that collection, NEVER accommodating any third party "owner" such as a library from loaning out their copy (too much money to be made by being a single caretaker with complete control over usage).

Nevertheless, some of us have to HATE discs- presumably because Apple says we should- but consumers do NOT have access to better quality versions of films, often at lower prices, than via discs. You won't be married to any one ecosystem. You aren't "leasing" access vs. owning (a copy). Movies won't just disappear should the ecosystem owner and some Studio have a falling out. Discs don't eat any broadband bandwidth. Discs will play even if broadband is down. Etc.

Does that mean discs are ALWAYS better? No, digital offers greater convenience. Sometimes digital versions are cheaper. Thus, there's certainly a place for them. But it's not the ONLY option. A consumer should think for themselves rather than tow the- ANY- company line... in spite of how hard any of us may work to try to convince total strangers that a single source is the one and only best source for all consumers, and that any other options (which could also be called CHOICES) are bad, bad, bad for all consumers. Caveat emptor!

.

 

[mattopotamus]

It's a shame because they are leaving money on the table by trying to lock this down. Here's an example of a guy who is uploading 4K Bluray sourced clips to Youtube. They look beautiful but even if you wanted to purchase rent one from Youtube you would be limited to HD. The current system is such a mess.

Just another reason to buy the physical media. You know exactly what you are getting.

 

[Andrewtst]

Some 4K titles depends on country Movies iTunes.

For example this Blade Runner 2046 is HD in my country iTunes account but 4K in USA iTunes account.

At the end I purchase via USA iTunes account because I want this title in 4K.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

Just another reason to buy the physical media. You know exactly what you are getting.

Oh God, back to the 1990s! I'd truly forgotten about discs until I read this thread.
Oh dear...
Plastic disc trays, sticking discs, cheap looking players, tatty cases ruining a beautiful lounge. Truly last century.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

BBP, see Post #29. You are free to feel whatever you wish to feel but again, the rest of the world is not you.

Physical media has substantial benefits over the one and only best way forward/"the future" you relentlessly tout. I have to believe you are on the payroll the way you carry on in every thread because I doubt any one product from any company can be so adored by any consumer. I love my TVs too but wow.

Owning is better than "lifetime lease", possessing at least one tangible copy is better than trusting third party storage in a "for profit" cloud only hosting media belonging to other "for profit" third parties who actually control availability of the content (and can- and do- yank it out of that locker at any time), picture quality trumps the pinched file sizes of streaming quality, sound quality is far superior to 1991's Dolby Digital, etc.

Plastic disc trays vs. plastic puck?
Sticking discs vs. stuttering streams?
"Tatty cases" can be stored out of sight or tossed if one is worried about the beauty of their lounge
Etc.

Even you have been known to post some whine over still waiting for "the future" to adopt ATMOS. Discs already have and have had ATMOS for some time now.

Discs allow a consumer to see very best quality picture and hear very best quality sound. When any "the future" alternative trumps those 2 key and fundamental advantages, that's when to crown it "the future." Until then, it's just an option- perhaps perfect in every possible way for you, but not necessarily perfect for everyone else. There's plenty of room for BOTH to coexist.

Consumers who value variables like best picture quality & sound have an option to get that. Consumers who value whatever Apple wants them to favor have an option for that too. Most discs offer the best of both worlds with a digital copy to drop right into iTunes. For those that don't, a person can roll their own at whatever quality that person wants to choose (instead of a heavily compressed file size for lowest common denominator streaming). Free digital copies that come with discs bring ALL of the benefits you evangelize over and over WHILE accompanying a superior picture & sound playback option for those that might want to max out what their AV setup can do too.