I have to wonder how many people watching these 4k videos are watching them on a 1080p or lower monitor.
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4k Video Looks Awful in Sample Videos
- Thread starter MICHAELSD
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I have to wonder how many people watching these 4k videos are watching them on a 1080p or lower monitor.
Is there a 4k version?
EDIT:
here is the 4k version
edit: fyi it looks way better in 4k
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Given that you seem to like these cut together, professionally shot videos using tripods, cranes, drones or steadicams shot at beautiful locations for both the Galaxy and the iPhone; I think the main issue is that there aren't many videos like this available yet for the iPhone 6S. As a photographer I can tell you it's not the phone—it's the person behind the phone that knows what they are doing. It's knowing how to play to the strengths of the available light, which direction to shoot, as well as making sure the exposure controls on the phone are properly set by tapping and dragging the slider up and down. Correct exposure can have a massive impact on the appearance of color. Furthermore there may be some color grading involved. Interesting shots cut together of beautiful locations can also sway the opinion of those who have a hard time discerning video quality from video aesthetic.
I understand how much technique is involved. I was probably expecting too much from sample videos. Although do note the above video is from handheld footage.
That is some really steady handheld footage. But as someone who used to frequently shoot in low-light situations, I must say that my handheld footage would look much better than most as I know how to brace myself properly and hold my breath at key moments. Furthermore much of the footage seems to be shot from a boat, which from a practical perspective is the same as putting the phone on a dolly. Still a good video for no mount. I was disappointed that my 6 Plus couldn't do stabilization while recording video so it's good this new 6S Plus can. Unfortunately for me I'm going down to the 4.7" size. I wish Apple would give us better stabilization too. Last year they said the reason was the extra thickness. Well this year the 6S is as thick as last year's 6 Plus. Hmmm.
I think the reason Casey's YouTube video (mentioned previously) is so noisy is the lack of OIS in the 6s. It is odd that both models don't include OIS.
Honestly the 6s may end up superior to the S6 in the video department. Awaiting a more direct comparison. I don't mind using a steadicam for less noisy shots if the camera is up to snuff.
On YouTube, it does. My MacBook Pro is 1680x1050, but when I play 1080p vs 1440p there is a noticeable improvement in quality with the latter. Same when playing the video back in a 720p or smaller tile, 1080p looks noticeably sharper than 720p.
The 4K on the iPhone 6S, from what I've seen on YouTube, looks fine - sortof. And yes, I'm watching on a 4K monitor - I have an LG 31MU97 running on Windows 10 (yes, I know, I know...), at 4096x2160.
The problem here is YouTube's absolutely horrendous compression. The 4K videos on YouTube (from any source) look absolutely amazing when they have very little movement in them. The moment anything starts to move, you can see that YouTube's severe lack of bitrate is affecting the quality.
Want an example? These were shot on the exact same camera, a Panasonic Lumix GH4. Same team, same cameras, probably the same editing process, etc.
Screenshot time - make sure you zoom in to these 100%:
If you want any real sense of how good the video is, either wait until you own one, or try and get hold of an original uncompressed file - which is easier said than done, though one place you might be able to get hold of an original file from is Vimeo - if the uploader is a Vimeo Pro member and it's enabled, you can download the original source file of the video (for example, you can download the source file of this video). I'm sure we'll see a few such uploads from Friday onwards from various users of the site.
The problem here is YouTube's absolutely horrendous compression. The 4K videos on YouTube (from any source) look absolutely amazing when they have very little movement in them. The moment anything starts to move, you can see that YouTube's severe lack of bitrate is affecting the quality.
Want an example? These were shot on the exact same camera, a Panasonic Lumix GH4. Same team, same cameras, probably the same editing process, etc.
Screenshot time - make sure you zoom in to these 100%:
- NYC Skyline. Looks good, right? Why? Because there's very little motion in the shot.
- NYC Park. Again, it looks okay. If you watch the video, it's moving, but not too much - the key is, stuff is moving and it's small and detailed. You can start to see it's getting a bit blocky - for example, the leaves on the tarmac between the people, and the detail in the fence and undergrowth in the bottom right corner.
- Jamaica Waterfall. This is the worst one. It looks AWFUL. Because it's moving fast, it just turns into a blocky mess, and looks disgusting.
If you want any real sense of how good the video is, either wait until you own one, or try and get hold of an original uncompressed file - which is easier said than done, though one place you might be able to get hold of an original file from is Vimeo - if the uploader is a Vimeo Pro member and it's enabled, you can download the original source file of the video (for example, you can download the source file of this video). I'm sure we'll see a few such uploads from Friday onwards from various users of the site.
Best way to judge is to see footage straight from the camera - i.e. download a sample of 4K video, not see if having gone through Youtube.
In terms of colour, sharpness - some of that is maybe looking at grading the footage after getting it to see how it handles. (Heck, the 5D MkIII got dinged for it's video, till people looked at what they could do with it)
In terms of colour, sharpness - some of that is maybe looking at grading the footage after getting it to see how it handles. (Heck, the 5D MkIII got dinged for it's video, till people looked at what they could do with it)
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Agreed, being processed and compressed by YouTube does not do these videos justice. I'd like to see some of the original video files out of the iPhone, otherwise I'm waiting until I take some footage of my own to judge the quality for myself.
Seriously what were you expecting from Apple on adding this feature? A miracle? 3d video thats virtual reality?
Seriously Apple finally decided to catch up to Android devices by adding a 12mp sensor that is capable of recording 4k UHD video.
The question there is this, are they scaling down the 12mp to 8mp in other words using 8mp out of the 12mp for 4k video or scaling it some how? instead of it being 1:1 ratio per pixel?
Also what bit-rate does Apple use for videos? Well if you own an Apple device the built in IOS apps do not tell you what data bit-rate the video is compressed at and what codec they are using.
Remember Samsung came out with 4k video on the Note 3 which I own. Guess what its a 12MP 4:3 sensor that they use 8MP 16:9 ratio to record 4k UHD on it, that means its not native 1:1 ratio per pixel because they zoomed in the 4:3 to make it 16:9 so they scale the 8MP 4k video. Also they use H264 compression at a variable bit-rate of 40-50MBPS. If you watch that on a 4k screen you will see noise or "compression artifacts".
The reason they use such a lower bit-rate is the file size and well phones with or without sdcards do not have unlimited space for 4k video. Also I noticed recently Apple does not change the size of there camera sensors much. Example Ipad Mini 2 camera sensor which is 5MP compared to Ipad Mini 4 8MP camera sensor. The sensor is actually smaller on the back of the Ipad mini4 but its a higher MP count. It has more noise but sharper images and needs more light to take a decent picture or video. The actual size of the sensor is what 5-10mm or 1cm??!?
My Note 3 Sony sensor thats 12MP is a newer variant due to it not being a release day model but a year newer. its about 15-20mm or 2cm sensor.
The bigger the sensor the more light allowed in, more light allowed in, better color reproduction at lower ISO! Less noise, less artifacts, more detail!
The Iphone 6s sensor is not only micro small still its a 3 year old sensor for android phones. Then who knows what bit-rate Apple uses for 4k and as I said, is it scaled down? or a 1:1 pixel mapping to 8MP 16x9 ratio?
Now compare it to my new fun camera a Panasonic FZ1000. it has a 3:2 20.1MP sensor. It does 4k video at 30fps using H264 and another codec forgot which one. IT USES THOUGH a 100MBPS bit-rate which means no noise at the lowest ISO of 125 in daylight and sharp as hell video at 30fps that looks true to life on a 4k TV, PC monitor or hell even a 1920x1080p monitor. It has a 1" sensor thats the size of what a golf-ball or bigger? even at high ISO it allows so much light in it and its calibrated to the SRGB 709 color gamut standard that I took pictures today indoors in dark interior at ISO of 1600 at 4:3 ratio and color reproduction was dead on viewed on camera LCD and PC monitor with some noise but manageable.
Also YOUTUBE is not a good source to view 4k video on, does not matter if the bit-rate from a phone is 40-50MBPS or 100-200MBPS from a professional 4k camera. YouTube breaks it down to streaming quality and its compression algorithms suck because it digitizes movement and since it cannot keep up with smooth movement even in 30fps video, its blocky as hell and looks like crap on YouTube. Also contrast and gamma get messed up on YouTube.
If I were to send you raw clips from my FZ1000 Panasonic of 4k 1:1 mapped pixel video @ 100MBPS data rate or my Note3/Galaxy S5 @ 50MBPS data rate (video bit-rate) you would be impressed, especially from the night shots I am capable of shooting on my FZ1000 at ISO of 800-1600 at 24p or 30p fps.
Look for my channel on YouTube "skyhawk21 fz1000" watch the night time firework clips at 2160p and make sure its buffered good on high speed internet connection. You might think it looks like crap like the new 4k video from the iPhone but the raw video on any screen is 5 times better than how it looks on YouTube. Of course you want a perfectly calibrated monitor that is tuned and set up correctly...
Anyhow I needed to add this here after reading your post. Compare a 4k video on YouTube to a identical clip at 1080p. Once you get use to the sharpness and detail and less compression of 4k video and how its life like to what the human eye sees, 1080p video no matter how high the bit-rate is just a blurry mess not lifelike to the eye crappy video quality!!!
Seriously Apple finally decided to catch up to Android devices by adding a 12mp sensor that is capable of recording 4k UHD video.
The question there is this, are they scaling down the 12mp to 8mp in other words using 8mp out of the 12mp for 4k video or scaling it some how? instead of it being 1:1 ratio per pixel?
Also what bit-rate does Apple use for videos? Well if you own an Apple device the built in IOS apps do not tell you what data bit-rate the video is compressed at and what codec they are using.
Remember Samsung came out with 4k video on the Note 3 which I own. Guess what its a 12MP 4:3 sensor that they use 8MP 16:9 ratio to record 4k UHD on it, that means its not native 1:1 ratio per pixel because they zoomed in the 4:3 to make it 16:9 so they scale the 8MP 4k video. Also they use H264 compression at a variable bit-rate of 40-50MBPS. If you watch that on a 4k screen you will see noise or "compression artifacts".
The reason they use such a lower bit-rate is the file size and well phones with or without sdcards do not have unlimited space for 4k video. Also I noticed recently Apple does not change the size of there camera sensors much. Example Ipad Mini 2 camera sensor which is 5MP compared to Ipad Mini 4 8MP camera sensor. The sensor is actually smaller on the back of the Ipad mini4 but its a higher MP count. It has more noise but sharper images and needs more light to take a decent picture or video. The actual size of the sensor is what 5-10mm or 1cm??!?
My Note 3 Sony sensor thats 12MP is a newer variant due to it not being a release day model but a year newer. its about 15-20mm or 2cm sensor.
The bigger the sensor the more light allowed in, more light allowed in, better color reproduction at lower ISO! Less noise, less artifacts, more detail!
The Iphone 6s sensor is not only micro small still its a 3 year old sensor for android phones. Then who knows what bit-rate Apple uses for 4k and as I said, is it scaled down? or a 1:1 pixel mapping to 8MP 16x9 ratio?
Now compare it to my new fun camera a Panasonic FZ1000. it has a 3:2 20.1MP sensor. It does 4k video at 30fps using H264 and another codec forgot which one. IT USES THOUGH a 100MBPS bit-rate which means no noise at the lowest ISO of 125 in daylight and sharp as hell video at 30fps that looks true to life on a 4k TV, PC monitor or hell even a 1920x1080p monitor. It has a 1" sensor thats the size of what a golf-ball or bigger? even at high ISO it allows so much light in it and its calibrated to the SRGB 709 color gamut standard that I took pictures today indoors in dark interior at ISO of 1600 at 4:3 ratio and color reproduction was dead on viewed on camera LCD and PC monitor with some noise but manageable.
Also YOUTUBE is not a good source to view 4k video on, does not matter if the bit-rate from a phone is 40-50MBPS or 100-200MBPS from a professional 4k camera. YouTube breaks it down to streaming quality and its compression algorithms suck because it digitizes movement and since it cannot keep up with smooth movement even in 30fps video, its blocky as hell and looks like crap on YouTube. Also contrast and gamma get messed up on YouTube.
If I were to send you raw clips from my FZ1000 Panasonic of 4k 1:1 mapped pixel video @ 100MBPS data rate or my Note3/Galaxy S5 @ 50MBPS data rate (video bit-rate) you would be impressed, especially from the night shots I am capable of shooting on my FZ1000 at ISO of 800-1600 at 24p or 30p fps.
Look for my channel on YouTube "skyhawk21 fz1000" watch the night time firework clips at 2160p and make sure its buffered good on high speed internet connection. You might think it looks like crap like the new 4k video from the iPhone but the raw video on any screen is 5 times better than how it looks on YouTube. Of course you want a perfectly calibrated monitor that is tuned and set up correctly...
Anyhow I needed to add this here after reading your post. Compare a 4k video on YouTube to a identical clip at 1080p. Once you get use to the sharpness and detail and less compression of 4k video and how its life like to what the human eye sees, 1080p video no matter how high the bit-rate is just a blurry mess not lifelike to the eye crappy video quality!!!
Do not know where you got this info from, but from Android KitKat to Lollipop 5.1.1, unless something changed on Samsung phones, they use a mixture of H264 or AVC codec for video no matter what resolution and frame rate. To verify I look at the raw files the Samsung phones save on a Windows 7/8/10 system using "MediaInfo" which will show you all the information you'll ever need to view inside of a media or audio file of any type. For example codecs used, bit-rates, FPS, color info and everything you can think of and I have not come across a file yet thats uses H265 from any Samsung phone or Apple device. Hell not even my 800 dollar Panasonic FZ1000 or the GH4 uses H265. Although do you know how awesome it would be if it did? Supposedly H265 is native to Windows 10 for video recording and editing as well the rumor states Apples latest and greatest OS for PC's!
Link: http://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo
I want H265 as bad as the next person but lets not get ahead of ourselfs!
Link: http://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo
I want H265 as bad as the next person but lets not get ahead of ourselfs!
Most of the 6s videos that were linked so far had dark/dingy quality of light. There are a few that have better lighting, such as this one that is a little more similar to the Greek S6 video:
And another with footage that would be a better reflection of how I would use the 6s: Not the best light, handheld, occasionally tripod, etc.
And another with footage that would be a better reflection of how I would use the 6s: Not the best light, handheld, occasionally tripod, etc.
My firework videos were recorded on the FZ1000 at 4k UHD res 30fps at the settings in the description of the videos on YouTube.
They were recorded with no editing before or after. Recorded live then uploaded straight from sdcard to YouTube and took forever because 4k videos can take up some gigabytes. My bit-rates at 95-100Mbps. My camera is the cheaper amateur model from Panasonic...
The GH4 and above are the pro models with no lenses and cost 1.5 times as much then you got to buy your lenses. It records at a bit-rate of 200+Mbps not sure if it can do 60fps 4k or not yet but that would be a nice firmware upgrade for these cameras.
I am by no means a professional yet, all my videos on YouTube with the Panasonic are raw clips unedited to test YouTube and how well it plays with high bit-rate 4k files. Which with the format Panasonic uses, it does pretty good!
With my reply's in this thread, it gave me the idea to go look for my 4k video clips from my Note 3 when it was on Android 4.3 or 4.4.2, can't remember what version. However found a clip that is shaky, recording double rainbows outside after it rained here in Washington while the sun was out...
It was on all default settings in the Android stock Samsung Touch Wiz Camera app for 4k UHD video, and the colors do POP and are VIVID without any special settings. I assume as I said in my other reply in this thread, its due the newer bigger sized 12MP sensor on rear of phone. Its huge for a camera sensor, and the way Samsung and Android handle the video codecs and bit-rates, in this specific clip there is no noise or digital blocking during movement even with hand shaking of phone (no image stabilization hand held). This of course is when the raw clip viewed on a 22" 1920x1080p 60hz pro panel EIPS monitor thats calibrated almost as perfect as you can get!
Link:
By the way if you ignore the shakiness and amateur focus job which was on auto focusing outside of a window and on it, this 4k UHD video on a two year old phone with a big 12 MP sensor on back looks way better than the dark, dim, bad contrast, blockiness, blurry, and unsharp videos from the newest version of the iPhone's 6s just released!
Let me know what you think and no I was not trying to start a fight; all of this talk about 4k video on an iPhone got me back into my hobby I have not messed with in awhile... Photography and 4k filming!
They were recorded with no editing before or after. Recorded live then uploaded straight from sdcard to YouTube and took forever because 4k videos can take up some gigabytes. My bit-rates at 95-100Mbps. My camera is the cheaper amateur model from Panasonic...
The GH4 and above are the pro models with no lenses and cost 1.5 times as much then you got to buy your lenses. It records at a bit-rate of 200+Mbps not sure if it can do 60fps 4k or not yet but that would be a nice firmware upgrade for these cameras.
I am by no means a professional yet, all my videos on YouTube with the Panasonic are raw clips unedited to test YouTube and how well it plays with high bit-rate 4k files. Which with the format Panasonic uses, it does pretty good!
With my reply's in this thread, it gave me the idea to go look for my 4k video clips from my Note 3 when it was on Android 4.3 or 4.4.2, can't remember what version. However found a clip that is shaky, recording double rainbows outside after it rained here in Washington while the sun was out...
It was on all default settings in the Android stock Samsung Touch Wiz Camera app for 4k UHD video, and the colors do POP and are VIVID without any special settings. I assume as I said in my other reply in this thread, its due the newer bigger sized 12MP sensor on rear of phone. Its huge for a camera sensor, and the way Samsung and Android handle the video codecs and bit-rates, in this specific clip there is no noise or digital blocking during movement even with hand shaking of phone (no image stabilization hand held). This of course is when the raw clip viewed on a 22" 1920x1080p 60hz pro panel EIPS monitor thats calibrated almost as perfect as you can get!
Link:
By the way if you ignore the shakiness and amateur focus job which was on auto focusing outside of a window and on it, this 4k UHD video on a two year old phone with a big 12 MP sensor on back looks way better than the dark, dim, bad contrast, blockiness, blurry, and unsharp videos from the newest version of the iPhone's 6s just released!
Let me know what you think and no I was not trying to start a fight; all of this talk about 4k video on an iPhone got me back into my hobby I have not messed with in awhile... Photography and 4k filming!
YouTube compresses the crap out of the video.
Shameless plug for one of my videos
That is a drone video shot in 4k. The full version locally is substantially better looking. But it's also 1.75GB for only 3:39 of footage.
You really need to look at the footage directly off the phone.
I really like how you produced the final video and loved all the up close shots then fly always in high speed to get infinity landscape shots. That is the newer expensive Dji quad I presume with the 4K cam with pretty good fov that the myth buster guys enjoyed playing with???
I would love to see the raw video clips of that. I have a server if you got time to upload it, or if you got a NAS, set up a guest account for access to share it; Or Dropbox, Google drive, etc.
Great video, now I'm jealous since I am such an amateur!!! I fly RC planes, helicopters, quads, cars. I can't afford the super expensive ones from DJI though...
I would love to see the raw video clips of that. I have a server if you got time to upload it, or if you got a NAS, set up a guest account for access to share it; Or Dropbox, Google drive, etc.
Great video, now I'm jealous since I am such an amateur!!! I fly RC planes, helicopters, quads, cars. I can't afford the super expensive ones from DJI though...
I think you would need to see a real world test and not some super slow motion film on stuff thats not moving.
You compare videos taken by reviewers with a video made for advertising Samsung phones shot by professional camera men. Apple also has shown some amazing videos taken with iPhone 6s, but most amateurs will never manage to create anything like that.
Why can't he, I know this is an apple device forum but surly there isn't a 'can't complain about Apple' rule is there?
Although sometimes one could be forgiven for thinking it.