5K2K at 120Hz with Mac Mini M4

[Beau Slim]

Hard to find the info on this thread - Any idea if the M4 base or M4 Pro will support 5k2k @ 120 as a default 2560x1080@2x? Seems like you would need TB5 on the M4 Pro for this but I'm not 100% sure.

I see a lot of people saying 3840x1620 "HiDPI". Is this just 1920x810@2x?

The thread boils down to that ultrawide support in macOS is broken for M4. Apple has acknowledged the issue and we'll have to wait for them to fix it before we really know what resolutions and refresh rates are supported by the different chips.

3840x1620 HiDPI is half-way between 2560x1080 HiDPI (default) and 5120x2160 (native). It is scaled down from 7680x3240. Many like how it looks on 5k2k displays.

 

[FilthyCasual]

The thread boils down to that ultrawide support in macOS is broken for M4. Apple has acknowledged the issue and we'll have to wait for them to fix it before we really know what resolutions and refresh rates are supported by the different chips.

3840x1620 HiDPI is half-way between 2560x1080 HiDPI (default) and 5120x2160 (native). It is scaled down from 7680x3240. Many like how it looks on 5k2k displays.

Where did Apple acknowledge the issue? I guess we will have to wait and see. Inputting 5k2k@120 @ 10bit here: https://trychen.com/feature/video-bandwidth gives me >40 Gbps, so I imagine TB5 would be required for it, correct?

Thanks for the clarification on the HiDPI stuff.

 

[DigiH]

Hard to find the info on this thread - Any idea if the M4 base or M4 Pro will support 5k2k @ 120 as a default 2560x1080@2x? Seems like you would need TB5 on the M4 Pro for this but I'm not 100% sure.

For my Dell U4025QW 5k2k monitor 2560x1080@2x is actually displayed as the default, available at full 120 Hertz, although my preferred resolution for everyday work is 3840x1620. This is with the M4 non-Pro, hooked up with the Dell included TB4 cable.

Hope this helps.

 

[anthonymoody]

Are you not yet on Sequoia also?

No I'm on Sequoia 15.1.1

 

[FilthyCasual]

For my Dell U4025QW 5k2k monitor 2560x1080@2x is actually displayed as the default, available at full 120 Hertz, although my preferred resolution for everyday work is 3840x1620. This is with the M4 non-Pro, hooked up with the Dell included TB4 cable.

Hope this helps.

Oooh that's a big help. Are you using a TB4 connection for that?

 

[DigiH]

Are you using a TB4 connection for that?

"This is with the M4 non-Pro, hooked up with the Dell included TB4 cable."

 

[terpsbball2002]

Has anyone gotten a 27in 120Hz+ monitor working with the M4 or M4 Pro? I can't get it working, I tried using premium cables too.

 

[roman.stapunov]

In a last ditch attempt to get it to work on the U4021QW I'm going to order an HDMI cable today

This monitor supports 5k2k only 30hz via hdmi, so even if it works it won't be happy end. I have the same monitor (4021) and it shows 3840px HiDpi for my current macbook m3 pro 11/14 and for previous base mini m2 pro and didn't work for m2 air. Everything works via TB4 cable I recieved with monitor. New m4 pro and m4 max has TB5 ports (not TB4) and this may be an issue. I hope apple will fix it because it seems like software issue.

Base m4 mini still has TB4 ports, so this may be a reason why it works with proper cable. Previous base m chips didn't support 3840px HiDpi.

If I were you I would try TB5 - DP port dongle and connect to monitor via DP port. It may help.

 

[apple_lh]

It's just embarrassing that Apple didn't check the resolution during their quality assurance
Every Raspberry can do it

 

[Jani Eronen]

You have missed the point. All M4 minis support native resolution of pretty much any display on the market. We are talking about special HiDpi scaling type of support. That is missing and confirmed for specific models and apple is working to fix that.

 

[apple_lh]

hopefully

 

[Ed M.]

I'm pretty sure I've come to the right thread and from briefly skimming through the pages, it seems that some people are looking for a hires gaming monitor to pair with their M4 Minis.

I'm waiting on a Mac Mini with M4 Pro with the following config:

- 14/20/16
- 48GB.
- 1TB
- 10Gb Ethernet
- pairing it with an Apple Studio Display for the day-to-day.

I'm also interested in selecting a separate display best suited for games. Does anyone have a quality display they can recommend that works and works well? Again, I'm not necessarily looking for a cheap/inexpensive option, but one that is geared toward gaming and what this Mini can handle. I'm also willing to wait to see if anything new crops up in the market over then next couple of months.

(Admittedly, I haven't read through all 13 pages in detail, so I might have missed some recommendations.)

 

[ClassicMartini]

I'm pretty sure I've come to the right thread and from briefly skimming through the pages, it seems that some people are looking for a hires gaming monitor to pair with their M4 Minis.

I'm also interested in selecting a separate display best suited for games. Does anyone have a quality display they can recommend that works and works well?

(Admittedly, I haven't read through all 13 pages in detail, so I might have missed some recommendations.)

This thread is NOT about gaming monitors for Mac M4, or any M series iteration, per se.
(Although, someone may chime in on that topic?)

Its about how the UI is displayed and controlled on ultra wide/hi res monitors that are not from Apple.

If you want to know more about this somewhat esoteric subject, the very first post from this thread goes over it in detail.

What is "UI", in this context?

The Menu's and, say, Bookmark 'Bar" in Chrome.

How small and/or nuanced the legibility of the text is, on screen, and how much control Apple have provided us end users to "punch in" on said elements.

This thread is not really about fragging out in FPS games

There's a single 5k2k display on the market - The Dell U4025QW - that works for "HiDPI" in the goldilocks "zoom" of 3840 x 1620, or a 25% punch in (from 5120 x 2160, native resolution) on the UI, OOB with no 3rd party modifications. That monitor just happens to have 120Hz, but almost no one here is buying it for gaming.

If gaming is your focus, for your 2nd screen, then the Apple UI elements are basically a moot point, as most games have their own in-game menu system and fonts.

Here are some good options.

Good luck.

 

[Ed M.]

Sorry about that, gang… As for ultra wide monitors, I guess I can see your point. I opted for the Apple Studio Display for the day to day because everything else just looks hazy to me for day to day. (I love that 218 ppi) YMMV.

Now if Apple releases the same screen with promotion, then I’ll hand this one down and upgrade.

 

[ClassicMartini]

Sorry about that, gang… As for ultra wide monitors, I guess I can see your point. I opted for the Apple Studio Display for the day to day because everything else just looks hazy to me for day to day. (I love that 218 ppi) YMMV.

Now if Apple releases the same screen with promotion, then I’ll hand this one down and upgrade.

No problem.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the 45" oled 5120 x 2160 panel, with improved sub-pixel layout, making text much sharper than current gen OLED's.

For OLED, on Mac, the better sub-pixel layout should mitigate some of the issues we have rendering the text in the UI on whole "HiDPI" issue. (ie crispy text at a cromulent size)

OLED Crystal Ball, 2025...

Paired with an M4 Studio, running four monitors.
Wish list:
Top: 2 x 45" 5120x1440
Bottom left: 45" oled. | Bottom right: 40" 5120 x 2160

Current:
Attached is pic of current 3 x Monitor set-up: 1 x 45" 5120 x 1440 (on top), 1 x 5120 x 2160, 40" (bottom left), and (legacy) 34" 1440p - being driven by base model M4 Mini Pro.

 

[andrwmai]

For my Dell U4025QW 5k2k monitor 2560x1080@2x is actually displayed as the default, available at full 120 Hertz, although my preferred resolution for everyday work is 3840x1620. This is with the M4 non-Pro, hooked up with the Dell included TB4 cable.

Hope this helps.

If you select 5120x2160, do you still get 120Hz? Also, is 5120x2160 HiDPI or LoDPI?

 

[andrwmai]

No problem.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the 45" oled 5120 x 2160 panel, with improved sub-pixel layout, making text much sharper than current gen OLED's.

For OLED, on Mac, the better sub-pixel layout should mitigate some of the issues we have rendering the text in the UI on whole "HiDPI" issue. (ie crispy text at a cromulent size)

OLED Crystal Ball, 2025...

Paired with an M4 Studio, running four monitors.
Wish list:
Top: 2 x 45" 5120x1440
Bottom left: 45" oled. | Bottom right: 40" 5120 x 2160

Current:
Attached is pic of current 3 x Monitor set-up: 1 x 45" 5120 x 1440 (on top), 1 x 5120 x 2160, 40" (bottom left), and (legacy) 34" 1440p - being driven by base model M4 Mini Pro.

For the 5K2K 40", can you run 5120x2160 HiDPI natively?

 

[DigiH]

If you select 5120x2160, do you still get 120Hz? Also, is 5120x2160 HiDPI or LoDPI?

If I select 5120x2160 I can't read what it says because it's so small.

Joking aside yes, also at full resolution you can have 120Hz, but this being the native display resolution there is no differentiation between any scaled LoDPI or HiDPI - at least with the default macOS Display settings.

The screenshot I took actually doesn't look good at 100% with its 70 dpi while the display has 140 ppl, but viewing it at 75% on my scaled 3840x1620 setting it does represent what I see at 5120x2160.

 

[andrwmai]

If I select 5120x2160 I can't read what it says because it's so small.

Joking aside yes, also at full resolution you can have 120Hz, but this being the native display resolution there is no differentiation between any scaled LoDPI or HiDPI - at least with the default macOS Display settings.

The screenshot I took actually doesn't look good at 100% with its 70 dpi while the display has 140 ppl, but viewing it at 75% on my scaled 3840x1620 setting it does represent what I see at 5120x2160.

My concern is if Apple has raised the framebuffer limit on M4 Pro/Max. The maximum horizontal pixels on older chips are 3840px HiDPI.

I assume you don’t use BetterDisplay? Because what I mean for 5120x2160 HiDPI is actually 10240x4320. 5120x2160 HiDPI is my desired resolution, and I'm holding off on upgrading from M1 Max because the limit apparently hasn't been raised yet on M4 Pro/Max.

 

[ClassicMartini]

My concern is if Apple has raised the framebuffer limit on M4 Pro/Max. The maximum horizontal pixels on older chips are 3840px HiDPI.

I assume you don’t use BetterDisplay? Because what I mean for 5120x2160 HiDPI is actually 10240x4320. 5120x2160 HiDPI is my desired resolution, and I'm holding off on upgrading from M1 Max because the limit apparently hasn't been raised yet on M4 Pro/Max.

I'm the edge case here with a "no name" (Kogan, Aussie bargain brand) 75Hz, 5120 x 2160, 40" panel.

Better Display will force higher HiDPI resolutions beyond Apple's - arbitrary? - limit using "Mirrored Display". The catch - so far - is that it only works on a single display. This might not be a problem for anyone else?

5120 x 2160's native UI is really too small to be useful, even with HiDPI enabled, the equivalent of 6 point type (text) at approximately 80 to 95cm is a struggle to read:

3840 x 1620, which is about a 25% UI 'zoom-in', with HiDPI enabled is puurfect. It feels like an Apple 27" sized up.

3840 x 1620 also 'equalises' to the resolution of my other monitors, (5120 x 1440 @ 45" and a 34" 1440) so as one drags, say, a Chrome windows from one monitor to the other, they stay - almost - the same physical size.

Cost notwithstanding, The Dell U4025QW is still the winner/aberration, as it does 3840 x 1620 HiDPI on the base M4 OOB, and I'd imagine it'd play nice with other monitors too.

...And the 'limitation' may be the carbon unit - me , not understanding how to juggle HiDPI "Mirrored Display" in a mix of several other - non mirrored - monitors?

When I introduce the 2 other monitors back into the mix, my primary - bottom - monitor gets flipped with the top one, which causes all sorts of window mismanagement and illogical sliding, its a mess.

So, to be clear, I cannot use Mirrored 3840 x 1620 HiDPI, as it messes up my ~ Displays ~ Arrange - monitor configuration.

BD does 'unlock' 3840 x 1620, but at the blurry lo-res, with the other monitors in the mix.

 

[andrwmai]

I'm the edge case here with a "no name" (Kogan, Aussie bargain brand) 75Hz, 5120 x 2160, 40" panel.

Better Display will force higher HiDPI resolutions beyond Apple's - arbitrary? - limit using "Mirrored Display". The catch - so far - is that it only works on a single display. This might not be a problem for anyone else?

View attachment 2459247


5120 x 2160's native UI is really too small to be useful, even with HiDPI enabled, the equivalent of 6 point type (text) at approximately 80 to 95cm is a struggle to read:

3840 x 1620, which is about a 25% UI 'zoom-in', with HiDPI enabled is puurfect. It feels like an Apple 27" sized up.

3840 x 1620 also 'equalises' to the resolution of my other monitors, (5120 x 1440 @ 45" and a 34" 1440) so as one drags, say, a Chrome windows from one monitor to the other, they stay - almost - the same physical size.

Cost notwithstanding, The Dell U4025QW is still the winner/aberration, as it does 3840 x 1620 HiDPI on the base M4 OOB, and I'd imagine it'd play nice with other monitors too.

...And the 'limitation' may be the carbon unit - me , not understanding how to juggle HiDPI "Mirrored Display" in a mix of several other - non mirrored - monitors.

When I introduce the 2 other monitors back into the mix, my primary - bottom - monitor gets flipped with the top one, which causes all sorts of window mismanagement and illogical sliding, its a mess.

So, to be clear, I cannot use Mirrored 3840 x 1620 HiDPI, as it messes up my ~ Displays ~ Arrange - monitor configuration.

BD does 'unlock' 3840 x 1620, but at the blurry lo-res, with the other monitors in the mix.

I do understand why 5120x2160 is too small for most people, but for me it's way more useful than smaller resolutions. I get more space for more windows on the screen, and it's not difficult at all for me to read texts even though I sit fairly far away. I've been running 3840x2160 HiDPI for the longest time I can remember on all 4K monitors that I've had, and now I just want some more horizontal space to squeeze more windows into the workspace. But until then, I'll just have to wait.

 

[ClassicMartini]

I do understand why 5120x2160 is too small for most people, but for me it's way more useful than smaller resolutions.

If its a single screen*, you can achieve what you want with 10,240 x 4320 then brought 'down' to HiDPI 5120 x 2160 with BD Mirrored mode, as you can see by the little star, indicating HiDPI output, next to the resolution list in the virtual screen mode.

As a proof of concept I did do it - and there was no performance penalty - I just have a hard time seeing the difference of 6 point text from a metre away, with or without anti aliasing, because I have older eyes . The deal breaker being Chrome's Bookmark Bar.

*Possibly with multi monitors, maybe I need to learn Better Display's idiosyncrasies more (don't have the time at the moment though).

FWIW, My 45", 5120 x 1440 monitor lets me comfortably have 5 chrome 'pages' open at once, but its not good at video content, hence having both a 45" and a 40".

Good luck in your quest.

 

[Ed M.]

There seems to be many similar threads floating around online with the same or similar observations regarding the display support for the new M4 Mac mini.

I posted something in another thread here on MR. And I was curious if anyone tried attaching a new 2024 iPad Pro to some of these external displays/TVs/monitors to see how things appear.

 

[plantdadsunite]

Dumb question on resolutions.

For 4k/UHD (3840x2160) monitors:

• 27" (163 PPI): scaled resolution sweet spot is at 2560x1440
• 32" (138 PPI): scaled resolution sweet spot is at 3008x1692

Translating that to 5k2k/WUHD (5120x2160) monitors (~1.34x horizontal resolution of 4K):

• 34" (163 PPI): scaled resolution sweet spot should be 3440x1440
• 40" (138 PPI): scaled resolution sweet spot should be 4042x1692

However, throughout this discussion I've seen 3840x1620 touted as the ideal resolution for the 40" ultrawides. Why is that?

 

[DigiH]

However, throughout this discussion I've seen 3840x1620 touted as the ideal resolution for these ultrawides. Why is that?

40" (138 PPI): scaled resolution sweet spot should be 4042x1692

Not available on the 5k2k/WUHD Dell U4035QW for example, with not quite matching aspect ration conversion
But the very close 3840x1620 is, in my and others' opinion, the best for getting much content on the screen while still assuring good legibility from a usual distance from the screen at ~140 PPI.