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I was merely pointing out that the issue isn’t unique to M4 and that issues existed with M1 that were resolved with BetterDisplay until Apple pushed out a fix. I’m coming from a 5K iMac (purchase I think December of 2014) that’s now passed down to a younger relative. Over a decade ago!

I guess for me, I really never had an interest in non-retina class displays since the 5K iMac shipped. But I guess I’m a little different. We a criticize Apple all we want, but I’m gonna turn it around a bit…. It’s been well over a DECADE at this point. Why aren’t the the majority of displays being shipped retina class at this point? Why do the display manufacturers seem to be soaking their customers and stringing them along with ****** LoDPI panels and only marketing tech meant to gloss over the fact that the panels are LoDPI? And not that Apple’s GPUs or macOS couldn’t handle the scaling (likely not a performance hit on the system at this point), but imagine if companies like MS and Apple could scrap all the software trickery and antialiasing needed to produce “good enough” but still less than optimal text and image rendering?

It’s been 10 years since HiDPI has been a thing. Why support old tech that is sooner-rather-than-later going to be replaced once high pixel density displays become mainstream? I’ll bet we’ll see a big shift to hiDPI display tech this year (finally) at CES. The fact that most panels are still LoDPI is rather amusing given how fast the industry advances with other tech.

The other question that I still can’t wrap my head around (And I loathe car analogies) but It’s like people who go out and buy a luxury car then complain about the insurance and maintenance/upkeep. Or they buy an elephant then complain about the cost to feed it. This is different though. It’s a one time cost. And I’ll wager a high dpi panel will net you more mileage than the loDPI kit the display manufacturers are still peddling. In the other hand, maybe Apple had a reason to knee-cap support for LoDPI panels that require fractional scaling. And when I mean “displays” I’m talking about units that will primarily be used as computer monitors.
 
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I was merely pointing out that the issue isn’t unique to M4 and that issues existed with M1 that were resolved with BetterDisplay until Apple pushed out a fix.
This is the part that you seem to still be not on the same page. The M4 inherited the same M1 issues that are "resolved". And then the M4 added extra issues.

And while LoDPI screens are among the ones affected by the topic on hand, the same is affecting HiDPI screen as well. We are literally discussing in a thread titled 5k2k... The core of the matter is Apple's insistence on tailoring its HiDPI support around the "retina" PPI panels, there as a side effect introducing sub-optimal results when using non-retina, but still HiDPI screens, which are common.

As to why there are more monitors falling into other PPI than the "retina PPI", well, the market dictates what panels the manufacturers make, not the other way round. The monitor makers do not have the same vertical integration and bargaining sway as Apple, where Apple can design a custom resolution on a custom panel exclusively built to their specs, mostly on internal screens but odd times for standalone external screen like the ASD / XDR Pro Display. Others like ASUS they have to stick with mostly what Samsung and LG makes, and then Samsung and LG have to look at which panels their customers want to get.
 
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I was merely pointing out that the issue isn’t unique to M4 and that issues existed with M1 that were resolved with BetterDisplay until Apple pushed out a fix. I’m coming from a 5K iMac (purchase I think December of 2014) that’s now passed down to a younger relative. Over a decade ago!

I guess for me, I really never had an interest in non-retina class displays since the 5K iMac shipped. But I guess I’m a little different. We a criticize Apple all we want, but I’m gonna turn it around a bit…. It’s been well over a DECADE at this point. Why aren’t the the majority of displays being shipped retina class at this point? Why do the display manufacturers seem to be soaking their customers and stringing them along with ****** LoDPI panels and only marketing tech meant to gloss over the fact that the panels are LoDPI? And not that Apple’s GPUs or macOS couldn’t handle the scaling (likely not a performance hit on the system at this point), but imagine if companies like MS and Apple could scrap all the software trickery and antialiasing needed to produce “good enough” but still less than optimal text and image rendering?

It’s been 10 years since HiDPI has been a thing. Why support old tech that is sooner-rather-than-later going to be replaced once high pixel density displays become mainstream? I’ll bet we’ll see a big shift to hiDPI display tech this year (finally) at CES. The fact that most panels are still LoDPI is rather amusing given how fast the industry advances with other tech.

The other question that I still can’t wrap my head around (And I loathe car analogies) but It’s like people who go out and buy a luxury car then complain about the insurance and maintenance/upkeep. Or they buy an elephant then complain about the cost to feed it. This is different though. It’s a one time cost. And I’ll wager a high dpi panel will net you more mileage than the loDPI kit the display manufacturers are still peddling. In the other hand, maybe Apple had a reason to knee-cap support for LoDPI panels that require fractional scaling. And when I mean “displays” I’m talking about units that will primarily be used as computer monitors.
Are you calling a 34" 5K2K monitor LoDPI. Or a 27" 4K monitor? I guess anything less than a 24" iMac screen or a Mac Studio Display isn't worth having.

I just want my new shiny M4 mini to work as well with my monitor as my 2018 i5 Mac mini. It isn't because I have some ****** monitor or ****** cables, it is Apple just not letting me use my monitor as they did when I bought it with my old Intel based mini.

Edit (adding more to my rant):

They just seem unable or unwilling to write decent external monitor management code like our friend at BetterDisplay seems to be able to do. Mac minis have always had external monitor issues and bluetooth issues. Maybe they can hire some Microsoft programmers to help. I've never had issues with monitors with any PC I've ever had. I guess if it it isn't an Apple monitor, they don't care.
 
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Subpixel rendering behaviour indeed was drastically changed during Mojave due to MS's ClearType licensing to Apple expiring, and Apple probably thought it no longer necessary to implement because the shift to "retina" class displays across its own products' internal screen.
I’m not sure Apple licensed any such tech. I’ve been well-steeped in Apple Land over the year, so would you be kind enough to post any supporting evidence of them licensing the tech from MS? Apple has had their own AA tech ASAIK.


Anyway, I came here looking for some monitor options. I figured by now, the manufacturers would have been shipping more higher DPI monitors by now (10 YEARS!) and was shocked to find that the larger-size options (say 32" to 40" or even the UltraWides) don't offer anything in retina class that macOS is optimized for. I guess coming from an iMac 5K and now Apple Studio Display spoiled me. Again, YMMV and it seems that folks will need to live with whatever tradeoffs come with using LoDPI screens at this point. To be clear, I'm not someone who shops for a new rig and wondering if my older monitor will work with it, I go into the purchase asking those questions. The question for me is: "Will this monitor provide the experience I'm looking for with my new system?" If the answer is no, then I look to grab a monitor that's right for me. I didn't buy a Corvette only to worry whether or not my new'ish Michelins from the Mustang can be used.

I'm obviously going to wait for larger HiDPI panels to start shipping. In the mean time I'll stick with the ASD.

Having said that. I'm glad some of you found a fix in BetterDisplay. It seems like its been a real lifesaver for some folks, and that's only a Good ThingTM.
 
I’m not sure Apple licensed any such tech. I’ve been well-steeped in Apple Land over the year, so would you be kind enough to post any supporting evidence of them licensing the tech from MS? Apple has had their own AA tech ASAIK.


Anyway, I came here looking for some monitor options. I figured by now, the manufacturers would have been shipping more higher DPI monitors by now (10 YEARS!) and was shocked to find that the larger-size options (say 32" to 40" or even the UltraWides) don't offer anything in retina class that macOS is optimized for. I guess coming from an iMac 5K and now Apple Studio Display spoiled me. Again, YMMV and it seems that folks will need to live with whatever tradeoffs come with using LoDPI screens at this point. To be clear, I'm not someone who shops for a new rig and wondering if my older monitor will work with it, I go into the purchase asking those questions. The question for me is: "Will this monitor provide the experience I'm looking for with my new system?" If the answer is no, then I look to grab a monitor that's right for me. I didn't buy a Corvette only to worry whether or not my new'ish Michelins from the Mustang can be used.

I'm obviously going to wait for larger HiDPI panels to start shipping. In the mean time I'll stick with the ASD.

Having said that. I'm glad some of you found a fix in BetterDisplay. It seems like its been a real lifesaver for some folks, and that's only a Good ThingTM.
Why don't you buy a Pro Display XDR if you are looking for an upgrade? I just can't believe that companies sell such crappy monitors to regular people.
 
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so whats the best resolution i can get on a regular M4 using better display without virtual devices and a LG 40WP95C?

The max i can get is 3072x1296 :(
 
Definitely not for everyone, but there is another option that might work for some: Dual PBP inputs. If I plug my LG 34" into my mini via TB and HDMI, and set my monitor to do PBP (either 2.5K+2.5K or 4K+1K), the "screens" that macOS sees are narrower and I get higher HiDPI scaling resolutions. A 1Kx2K "screen" is perfectly usable for many applications, and if in full-screen mode, the menu bar is hidden.
 
It’s been 10 years since HiDPI has been a thing. Why support old tech that is sooner-rather-than-later going to be replaced once high pixel density displays become mainstream? I’ll bet we’ll see a big shift to hiDPI display tech this year (finally) at CES.
I'm in the market for a new monitor since a year and a half, bought 2 and returned them because I wasn't satisfied.

There's a roadmap that's been leaked and if it's real, I think it'll be end-2025 where we'll get HiDPI displays, but then again, nothing to do with the iMac and Apple Studio Display, in terms of PPI. They have 218 ppi, the market is aiming at 163 by the end of 2025 if everything leaked is true.

It's absolutely deceiving. I mean, Apple released HiDPI iMacs in like 2014, more than 10 years ago now, and the competition still hasn't really caught up to that yet.
 
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I'm in the market for a new monitor since a year and a half, bought 2 and returned them because I wasn't satisfied.

There's a roadmap that's been leaked and if it's real, I think it'll be end-2025 where we'll get HiDPI displays, but then again, nothing to do with the iMac and Apple Studio Display, in terms of PPI. They have 218 ppi, the market is aiming at 163 by the end of 2025 if everything leaked is true.

It's absolutely deceiving. I mean, Apple released HiDPI iMacs in like 2014, more than 10 years ago now, and the competition still hasn't really caught up to that yet.
A 27” 4K monitor has 163 ppi and they are readily available. My 34” 5K2K has the same. What are you guys talking about?
 
A 27” 4K monitor has 163 ppi and they are readily available. My 34” 5K2K has the same. What are you guys talking about?
They somehow followed Apple's stance on considering anything lower than the retina 2xx PPI as not deemed worthy to be called HiDPI, then proceed to wonder why the market is filled with products not yet HiDPI. That's the message I got. It's like when 1080p was barely even out, and someone yelled at 720p DVD not being truly high definition. Which was true, only not yet. End of the day it as just about moving the goal post of what's considered "high", I mean not by any one of us here but by the industry and the market.
 
They somehow followed Apple's stance on considering anything lower than the retina 2xx PPI as not deemed worthy to be called HiDPI, then proceed to wonder why the market is filled with products not yet HiDPI. That's the message I got. It's like when 1080p was barely even out, and someone yelled at 720p DVD not being truly high definition. Which was true, only not yet. End of the day it as just about moving the goal post of what's considered "high", I mean not by any one of us here but by the industry and the market.
Ah ok, I get it now. Im just getting more and more frustrated with having to use BetterDisplay mirroring on my M4 5K2K setup because of Apple nonsense and these guys haven’t helped.
 
I'm currently using a MacBook Pro M4 Pro paired with an LG 40WP95C-W. I recently upgraded from an M1 Pro, and while the new machine is great in many aspects, display resolution is nightmare.

Tried to use virtual screen (better display), but I have issues with mx master 3s, so i reverted back to the native resolution of 3360x1418

I've submitted a ticket about this issue via feedback.apple.com hoping that Apple addresses this in an upcoming update. If you're experiencing the same issue, I strongly encourage you to submit a ticket as well.
 
I'm currently using a MacBook Pro M4 Pro paired with an LG 40WP95C-W. I recently upgraded from an M1 Pro, and while the new machine is great in many aspects, display resolution is nightmare.

Tried to use virtual screen (better display), but I have issues with mx master 3s, so i reverted back to the native resolution of 3360x1418

I've submitted a ticket about this issue via feedback.apple.com hoping that Apple addresses this in an upcoming update. If you're experiencing the same issue, I strongly encourage you to submit a ticket as well.

Some feedbacks (with their numbers) are already listed in this discussion... perhaps it may be useful to add them since mine still shows “similar feedbacks: none” 😏

 
Tried to use virtual screen (better display), but I have issues with mx master 3s, so i reverted back to the native resolution of 3360x1418

This resolution is not available ou my regular M4 chip
 
A 27” 4K monitor has 163 ppi and they are readily available. My 34” 5K2K has the same. What are you guys talking about?
For me, 163 ppi is low ppi.
Nothing close to 218 ppi like Apple computer displays. Now we're talking. Those products are terribly rare.
 
For me, 163 ppi is low ppi.
Nothing close to 218 ppi like Apple computer displays. Now we're talking. Those products are terribly rare.
Sill no excuse for Apple crippling my monitor and making it look worse on the M4 Mini when it worked fine on the 2018 model. There is a 8k Dell available for a little over $4k and a 6K is available for $2500 or so. But would the M4 mini support them properly is they aren't branded by Apple?
 
Sill no excuse for Apple crippling my monitor and making it look worse on the M4 Mini when it worked fine on the 2018 model. There is a 8k Dell available for a little over $4k and a 6K is available for $2500 or so. But would the M4 mini support them properly is they aren't branded by Apple?
Of course it should work as expected.
In fact I didn't know it had problems with the M4 Mac Mini.
It's shameful for Apple...
 
For those who managed to get the HiDPI working, did you have any problem so far when using with your M4s?

I am considering buying U4025QW to go with my M4 Pro Mac mini.

Preferably, I would like my monitor to work flawlessly, better if do not need to fiddle with it every so often. I have seen some posts on Reddit where the folks were having to plug & unplug TB4 port occasionally to get the ultrawide monitor working, or waking from sleep. Any help would be appreciated.
 
This might be a fix for some of you who don't want to use BetterDisplay. ResolutionTab (appStore) will give you HiDPI values of resolutions you have chosen that don't show in Displays. So for instance if you choose 5120x2160 in Resolution Tab it should have that HiDPI right there as an option.

 
I have seen some posts on Reddit where the folks were having to plug & unplug TB4 port occasionally to get the ultrawide monitor working, or waking from sleep.
I don't think this is limited to 5K2K displays. I often find my Dell 6K recognized as a 4K (3840x2160) upon waking from sleep, and this happens on my M1 Air and my M4 Pro mini. No fiddling with settings seems to help and I have to turn the monitor off and on again. I only have this problem on my LG 5K2K 34" if I daisy-chain it through the Dell's TB hub.
 
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